win8 I use Windows 8 like a power user! Do you?

[Kelxin]

Businesses with no admins could assign power users/super users for that kind of support. Look for solutions, not just look at the problem.

You are clearly out of touch with small businesses. Most small businesses (under 20 employees) Have the CEO, the CFO, a couple of managers that know the business but nothing about computers, and the rest are employee's. Most of my calls come from the managers / CEO / CFO that usually created the problem in the first place by doing something they shouldn't have. There is no admin / power user task that is small enough for them. Most of them can't even be trusted to swap out a removable hard drive reliably.

[x-byte]

In that case, there shouldn't be a long term issue. People learn.

edit: And either good schooling on implementation or e-learning should do the trick.

[Kelxin]

In that case, there shouldn't be a long term issue. People learn.

edit: And either good schooling on implementation or e-learning should do the trick.

And you think these small businesses are going to want to pay their employees to learn a new system when the old system isn't broken? As I said in another thread, I still support people running DOS based point of sale systems because there is no need for them to even go beyond XP, I support video surveillance machines still running Win 2k, and breaking something that isn't broken, slowing down performance just for the sake of change, and spending money because it's shiny only happens logically in a Mac users mind.

Windows 8 = Heard something about $39 upgrades?

New 32bit or 64bit POS = $12,000 to $40,000 depending on the industry and number of users

Training staff on new OS + new POS = $1500 - $8000 per employee depending on POS provider / payrate / etc etc

Average number of employee's ~ 12

Average number of computers ~ 8

Average cost of implementing it ~ $30,000

Average time frame of change over including reduced income and performance of employee's = 2 to 4 weeks.

Edit: And if you think these employees are going to want to go home and read an e-book in their free time, you need to get in touch with the average employee.. Most of them don't even want to touch a computer when they go home, let alone something for work.

[x-byte]

Edit: And if you think these employees are going to want to go home and read an e-book in their free time, you need to get in touch with the average employee.. Most of them don't even want to touch a computer when they go home, let alone something for work.

They do at my work. And their department have cleared it so they can use a few hours at work for this. We did this with Win7 and Office 2007 and it payed off.

[tsupersonic]

:rofl:

You can't use W8 like a boss. It is the most unproductive modern OS I can think of (let's not include Linux). People are either going to love W8 or hate it. I can definitely see the latter happening - if people can't transition from XP to W7, then God help us all when average users try to use W8.

[RossDundas Veteran]

As i've said may times on Windows 8. I don't believe it was designed with current desktop or laptop users in mind, at least in terms of the form factors that we are aware of as of right now. Tablets, Microsoft surface and Desktops/Laptops which utilise touch screens however should see more of a easier experience and for them Windows 8 is certainly a more friendly OS. I think as time passes and we cross over this bridge period between where we are at right now and various emerging form factors then I think consumers and home users at least should have a smoother ride.

On the business front, I'm afraid to say though that MS is deluding themselves if they believe it will be widely adopted on corporate desktops and it has thrown the baby out with the bath water here and no doubt will be trashing 7 vs 8 like they have done in every windows release as far back as I can remember, It is pushing what they believe to be what the industry needs and wants when the reality is a bit different. This is a complete polarisation in terms of approach compared to Windows 7 where they pro actively took user feedback as a key component of the design methodology.

Most of the clients i'm working with right now are moving from XP to 7 in advance of the April 2014 plug pull. As Microsoft state themselves migrating a worldwide enterprise desktop real estate can take 18 months+ so the last thing on their minds is moving to another operating system which is even further away from their current rollout plans and complicating matters by adding a muddled user interface to non-tech savvy users onto form factors which were never designed to accomodate an OS like windows 8. To get a practical demonstration of what I mean. Download a copy of the RP. Install it on a PC and then get your mum/dad/non-tech savy relative to use the OS without providing them with any instructions or help. This will give you a taste as to what it would be like for me as a Desktop support engineer supporting them, now imagine multiplying that by 900 desktops in one site alone and you've only got 2 other engineers helping you. Welcome to hell.

Personally I loved windows 7 and previous posters are right, some of the desktop features like the ribbon are pretty neat but metro is a deal breaker for me but that is my personal opinion and I know that i plan on sticking with Mac OS X for my home OS for the foreseeable future.

[devHead]

The desktop environment and the tablet environment are two entirely different things with entirely different needs. Nobody is going to wait years and years to adopt this if they get a mobile device. People do not want a start menu and "Windows 7"-esque OS on a mobile device, and they (well, most) do not want a Win8-made-for-mobile-devices OS on a desktop. From what I have seen, for a work environment, people want whey want what they are familiar with and comfortable with using and have become proficient in. I do not see why Microsoft are forcing people to have to re-learn everything to get back to the level they were before, just because they want to shove together two worlds that should not be combined.

..Just my two cents, of course.

This right here. I am no Apple fan, but you would and will never see Apple try to integrate such a touch-centric UI design into their OS X operating system for computers and laptops. The iPad and iTouch have one UI that is designed for those types of devices, and their other non-touch devices have a different UI. Why Microsoft thinks they must be combined together somehow to make people get used to it is beyond me. It's like they feel, no one really uses even their desktop PCs or laptops for real work, so why not just slap a tablet UI on it and appeal to all the Facebook and Twitter and online chat users. It just seems to me the most illogical decision they've made, and I am a Microsoft fan!

The right-click 'power menu' on the invisible Start button is an indication to me that somebody at some point said, 'Hey, how will people quickly open Control Panel or Administration Tools or Command prompt, or Run since we've removed the Start menu?' Because, really, the Start menu has always been more than just where your programs shortcuts were located. So, they decided to make a shortcut right-click power menu to overcome this glaring omission. That was just my first impression when I saw the 'power menu'. That to me is an indication that they removed the Start menu because they couldn't think of any other place to put the Metro screen and launcher for Metro-style apps. There's no paradigm for it in a non-touch OS environment.

The tool-tip for Sleep on the Windows 7 Start menu (now another thing you can't easily discover in Windows 8, since for the most part, you don't shut down or sleep touch devices) says the following: "Keeps your session in memory and puts the computer in a low-power state so that you can quickly resuming working." That's just it; I feel like Windows 8 is designed first and foremost not for people who work on their computers, but for people who just consume online content.

Just my two cents also, of course.

[BajiRav]

You can't use W8 like a boss. It is the most unproductive modern OS I can think of (let's not include Linux). People are either going to love W8 or hate it. I can definitely see the latter happening - if people can't transition from XP to W7, then God help us all when average users try to use W8.

What's unproductive about Win8? My home PC is on 24x7 and I hardly ever see the start screen. My usage hasn't changed from Win7 where everything I use is pinned to taskbar. I don't think it will be any different for most people.

[Dashel]

It's time for you to stop trolling or we're going to have a party with the report button.

Sorry but he's right. Ross, your profile makes it impossible for me to take anything you say seriously and is systemic of much of the distortion of Win8 issues.

[+Warwagon MVC]

if people can't transition from XP to W7, then God help us all when average users try to use W8.

QFT!

I can support the fact that I've seen users completely lost in Windows 7 when going from XP.

[floopydoodle]

This right here. I am no Apple fan, but you would and will never see Apple try to integrate such a touch-centric UI design into their OS X operating system for computers and laptops.

Excuse me?

[Brandon Live Veteran]

@grayscale you are welcome! you don't need to use Win+Q. To search apps, just hit the windows key and type, just like you did in Windows 7.

Well technically they do different things :)

WIN then type = search for apps (or run command lines / paths)

WIN+Q = Open the search pane

Though the latter will have the same effect if you're in Desktop.

So Win+Q can be handy in all sorts of places if you want to search the current app without using mouse or touch (i.e. browser, Mail app, etc).

[Brandon Live Veteran]

This right here. I am no Apple fan, but you would and will never see Apple try to integrate such a touch-centric UI design into their OS X operating system for computers and laptops. The iPad and iTouch have one UI that is designed for those types of devices, and their other non-touch devices have a different UI.

People said the same about merging the iPod and a cell phone. Or putting video on an iPod. Apple folks said each of those were ridiculous notions, right up until the day Apple shipped it :)

[Miuku.]

Excuse me?

The difference here being, you're not forced to use it - it's there if you want but your old options of launching applications or managing them hasn't been taken away.

The irony is thick.

[Dashel]

Apple tends to bash what it can't do, until it can, then its the most revolutionary thing eva.

[Spartan Erik]

Just based on observation, if the video wasn't sped up, I think the first claim that you can launch programs faster than you can in Windows 7 is false. How is anything faster than pressing a button already pinned to the taskbar?

I'll be installing W8 when my new SSD comes in, but so far I believe the Metro start screen will break workflow.. it doesn't seem intuitive, though I may be wrong. Would be nice if the Metro start screen background (not the tiles) could be made semi-transparent.

Don't really give a crud about the games and other apps, I only access them when I'm away from a computer and on my phone.

I'm fine with the removal of the Start menu, but I still wish there was a dedicated button to go into Metro, rather than the Charms bar.

[Matthew_Thepc]

Just based on observation, if the video wasn't sped up, I think the first claim that you can launch programs faster than you can in Windows 7 is false. How is anything faster than pressing a button already pinned to the taskbar?

since you can pin apps to the taskbar in Win 8 too (and not to mention pinning larger tiles to the Start Screen, which makes them easier targets, which makes it faster to launch them), I think he was talking about the start menu vs. screen's search capabilities in that regard ;}

[Spartan Erik]

since you can pin apps to the taskbar in Win 8 too (and not to mention pinning larger tiles to the Start Screen, which makes them easier targets, which makes it faster to launch them), I think he was talking about the start menu vs. screen's search capabilities in that regard ;}

Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up!

[BajiRav]

I'm fine with the removal of the Start menu, but I still wish there was a dedicated button to go into Metro, rather than the Charms bar.

what do you mean by that?

[Ice_Blue]

I'm fine with the removal of the Start menu, but I still wish there was a dedicated button to go into Metro, rather than the Charms bar.

It's right there on your keyboard. It has a Windows logo on it.

If you prefer the mouse, move the pointer to the bottom left of the screen. :)

[Spartan Erik]

It's right there on your keyboard. It has a Windows logo on it.

If you prefer the mouse, move the pointer to the bottom left of the screen. :)

Ah okay thanks. Started watching this to learn some things before I install:

Still not quite sold on the Metro start screen, but we'll see when I use it. I currently have my W7 taskbar docked to the right, and I'm hoping the Charms bar doesn't get in the way each and every time I try to access my pinned library shortcut near the top right.

[xWhiplash]

Windows 8 will not be as successful as people seem to think. You guys have to realize something. Some "casual users" have jobs where they will be using a computer. That computer will probably be on XP if not 7. If a casual user wants a new computer and they get Windows 8, are you really expecting them to learn two completely different UIs (one for work and one for home)? No, they will do what they should and request something they can easily use. I have seen this before first hand where a person has Windows 7 at home but Windows XP at work, they try to use some Windows 7 features (like snap) and complain that it will not work.

This OS is built for tablets. You cannot deny the fact. If you give somebody a Windows 8 tablet and Windows 8 desktop, I bet you they will know how to work the tablet much faster than the desktop version.

Can you imagine the IT support headaches when this is released? Not only do we now need to ask if they are on XP or Vista/7 (because the steps to tell somebody to do something are different). We now need to ask if they are on Windows 8. NOT only do we need to ask if they are on Windows 8, we now need to ask if they are in Metro or Desktop.

This OS is a complete mess. You cannot deny the fact, from a support perspective, that people will hate it. How many people will be able to support XP, Vista, 7, AND 8 AND two different UI designs without going insane?

The metro start screen might be nice when it is all organized and maintained. But you will not feel like it is a nice system when you have been at an IT Helpdesk position. The fact that people have a 100 pixel high browser because they have 10 toolbars installed, and their start menu (even on Windows 7) is a complete mess because their system has been running for 5 years and they never deleted anything.

[BajiRav]

Windows 8 will not be as successful as people seem to think. You guys have to realize something. Some "casual users" have jobs where they will be using a computer. That computer will probably be on XP if not 7. If a casual user wants a new computer and they get Windows 8, are you really expecting them to learn two completely different UIs (one for work and one for home)? No, they will do what they should and request something they can easily use. I have seen this before first hand where a person has Windows 7 at home but Windows XP at work, they try to use some Windows 7 features (like snap) and complain that it will not work.

This OS is built for tablets. You cannot deny the fact. If you give somebody a Windows 8 tablet and Windows 8 desktop, I bet you they will know how to work the tablet much faster than the desktop version.

Can you imagine the IT support headaches when this is released? Not only do we now need to ask if they are on XP or Vista/7 (because the steps to tell somebody to do something are different). We now need to ask if they are on Windows 8. NOT only do we need to ask if they are on Windows 8, we now need to ask if they are in Metro or Desktop.

This OS is a complete mess. You cannot deny the fact, from a support perspective, that people will hate it. How many people will be able to support XP, Vista, 7, AND 8 AND two different UI designs without going insane?

The metro start screen might be nice when it is all organized and maintained. But you will not feel like it is a nice system when you have been at an IT Helpdesk position. The fact that people have a 100 pixel high browser because they have 10 toolbars installed, and their start menu (even on Windows 7) is a complete mess because their system has been running for 5 years and they never deleted anything.

You can't fix dumbnormal. If people had problems with 7, they will have problems with 8 regardless of the new UI.

[xWhiplash]

You can't fix dumbnormal. If people had problems with 7, they will have problems with 8 regardless of the new UI.

My point is, most people will not want it because when they see it it will look nothing like their work computer. I know a few people that have even purchased extra copies of Windows 7 because of this. They do not want to move to a completely different UI at home and get to work with a completely different UI again.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

I'm fine with the removal of the Start menu, but I still wish there was a dedicated button to go into Metro, rather than the Charms bar.

What does "go into the Metro" mean? Do you mean go to Start? There are a lot of ways to do that. Click in the lower-left corner, press the Windows key, etc. Same ways you got to Start in Win7.

Or do you mean to get to a Metro-style app? You can do that from Start, or from the switcher (swipe from left, or mouse to upper-left corner, or Win+Tab, etc.)