win8 I use Windows 8 like a power user! Do you?

[Dashel]

I didn't "throw out" the mouse part. A "mouse and keyboard" user has a keyboard. If they don't wish to use their keyboard, they can't reasonably blame Microsoft. That was my point.

You most certainly did. I can do many things easier with the mouse (reasons we developed a GUI to begin with). Telling me sorry, you just can't do that efficiently with the mouse anymore so learn these new keyboard shortcuts is again, some very Mac loving ****.

Here's a video I linked in the other thread, but I think is relevant here too:

[ITFiend]

Additional column views & other right click options, along with the items you mentioned.

That?s what I'm pointing out. All the column view options are still there. Right click on a column name and select "select columns".

Windows Server 2008 R2 / Windows 7 Taskmgr have 30 column options.

Windows Server 2012 / Windows 8 Taskmgr have 37 column options. No column views were removed, only new ones became available. The only thing removed was the old method of adding columns.

The same thing goes for right-click options on processes. There are more options, not fewer, and nothing that was there before is missing that I can see.

[FloatingFatMan]

People don't seem to be having trouble with gestures on competing tablets. Why would they be a problem on Windows?

Keyboard shortcuts exist today, and will continue to serve the same segment of the population.

Clicking in the corner is the easiest thing you can possibly do with a mouse. Don't you think there have been endless usability studies (both short and long-term) of these changes with users of all different backgrounds and comfort levels?

And do you really think the learning curve here is more of a problem than it is on any given cell phone purchase the same person would make this year?

Actually, Brandon. Clicking in the corners is a royal pain in the ass when you have multiple screens. VERY easy to just miss and end up in the next screen, thus achieving nothing.

Also, tablets and desktops are totally different paradigms, and mouse gestures are nothing like as natural as those on a touch screen.

[Dot Matrix]

Actually, Brandon. Clicking in the corners is a royal pain in the ass when you have multiple screens. VERY easy to just miss and end up in the next screen, thus achieving nothing.

Than just use the keyboard shortcuts. :D They also have catchers in the corners now that are designed to catch the mouse and prevent it from going off onto the other screen. They work reasonably well.

[BajiRav]

Needless to say, the Music app is an "App Preview" which has pretty much stolen the interface from Videos App Preview for the makeshift preview purposes. It is most certainly going to be change come RTM time. Same goes for pretty much all WinRT apps, some to more dramatic extents than others. All the way back at Build 2011, the focus and goal was clearly on getting solid apps out by RTM time, just before GA.

The whole philosophy with Metro UI is that it is something that works with mouse, keyboard, touch as well as touchless gestures. Use only mouse/kb and resist change? hate Metro? Don't use it! Stay on Desktop, use Windows Media Player or foobar or whatever, as always. It is really not a big deal.

Yeah, they will end up looking like their Xbox counterparts.

[Dashel]

Actually, Brandon. Clicking in the corners is a royal pain in the ass when you have multiple screens. VERY easy to just miss and end up in the next screen, thus achieving nothing.

Agree FFM, not that Brandon will take off the rose glasses long enough to acknowledge it. I also don't think its that easy when you have to travel across so much space considering how much larger today's displays are than on the SVGA ones where it made more sense. He thinks non-fullscreen RDP is working just fine too apparently.

[abysal]

That?s what I'm pointing out. All the column view options are still there. Right click on a column name and select "select columns".

Windows Server 2008 R2 / Windows 7 Taskmgr have 30 column options.

Windows Server 2012 / Windows 8 Taskmgr have 37 column options. No column views were removed, only new ones became available. The only thing removed was the old method of adding columns.

The same thing goes for right-click options on processes. There are more options, not fewer, and nothing that was there before is missing that I can see.

Oh I see, it was moved to the details tab (previously under processed tab in the old taskmgr). Cool, looks like all that goodness is still there using the new Task Manager. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Actually, Brandon. Clicking in the corners is a royal pain in the ass when you have multiple screens. VERY easy to just miss and end up in the next screen, thus achieving nothing.

have you even messed with the RP? microsoft already solved that problem

[ITFiend]

Than just use the keyboard shortcuts. :D They also have catchers in the corners now that are designed to catch the mouse and prevent it from going off onto the other screen. They work reasonably well.

I'm glad they added the catchers on one hand, and am annoyed by them on the other. The catchers interfere when dragging objects like icons or windows, and at the moment there is absolutely no good reason for a dragged item to be caught by them.

[BajiRav]

I'm glad they added the catchers on one hand, and am annoyed by them on the other. The catchers interfere when dragging objects like icons or windows, and at the moment there is absolutely no good reason for a dragged item to be caught by them.

is too difficult too avoid those 6 pixels? :/

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I'm glad they added the catchers on one hand, and am annoyed by them on the other. The catchers interfere when dragging objects like icons or windows, and at the moment there is absolutely no good reason for a dragged item to be caught by them.

there's been plenty of time to report something like that, that wouldn't be too hard for MS to fix

I guess now only time will tell if that gets fixed (it doesn't bother me as i don't use multiple monitors very often, but I can see how it would be annoying)

[ITFiend]

is too difficult too avoid those 6 pixels? :/

When you have 3+ monitors, and some of them are on top of one another, yes. It doesn't affect me often, but it is annoying when it does.

[FloatingFatMan]

have you even messed with the RP? microsoft already solved that problem

Been using it as my primary OS since it came out, and yes, I'd noticed the catch, but I still manage to miss quite often.

Also, the charms bar popping up when gaming REALLY needs to be sorted out.

[BajiRav]

Been using it as my primary OS since it came out, and yes, I'd noticed the catch, but I still manage to miss quite often.

Also, the charms bar popping up when gaming REALLY needs to be sorted out.

Charms bar is most annoying when closing a full screen desktop window :/

[ITFiend]

there's been plenty of time to report something like that, that wouldn't be too hard for MS to fix

I guess now only time will tell if that gets fixed (it doesn't bother me as i don't use multiple monitors very often, but I can see how it would be annoying)

Yup. I really wish they would open the connect site for all users actually giving feedback on Windows so we could actually see how bugs are getting categorized (and so we can reintroduce the issue when it gets closed because someone can't reproduce it). The bug reporting tool provided to MSDN users is not very good, and its integration with step recorder is 80% broken. Step recorder works perfect for me if I use it on its own, but I use it in conjunction with the reporting tool it fails to capture pictures at least 80% of the time. (200 steps, 180 pictures missing).

Trying to do the step recorder with that tool and reporting the metro issues across surround with 3+ monitors? I had to entirely give up on showing them what I was seeing. It wouldn?t even capture one screen shot.

[HawkMan]

you have no idea how computer illiterate the people I talk to every day are. They have trouble with everything and anything, including apple devices. Having two separate interfaces to switch between will make some of their heads implode :D many users can barely find the (currently visible) start button in windows 7.

And gestures on tablets are significantly more intuitive than MS's implementation of gestures with the mouse. I found metro gestures with the mouse were a pain in the ass and keyboard shortcuts were the only usable method. (many users I deal with can barely even comprehend the concept of a keyboard shortcut.)

For these users there isn't two UI's, there is either Metro, or there is the desktop with a full screen launchers that easier to find stuff in than their old menu.

[HawkMan]

Actually, Brandon. Clicking in the corners is a royal pain in the ass when you have multiple screens. VERY easy to just miss and end up in the next screen, thus achieving nothing.

Also, tablets and desktops are totally different paradigms, and mouse gestures are nothing like as natural as those on a touch screen.

No corners work just fine on multiple screens. having two I should know, I have no trouble getting the start button to show. neither to top task switcher that I don't use, and the top corner between screens also has an invisible wall, I kind of wish they had it at the bottom to, but I don't really need it and sometimes it's annoying and in any case, it doesn't matter since RP since you can now use all corners on all screens. so you can use the left corners on the left screen and right corners on the right screen.

[HawkMan]

I'm glad they added the catchers on one hand, and am annoyed by them on the other. The catchers interfere when dragging objects like icons or windows, and at the moment there is absolutely no good reason for a dragged item to be caught by them.

The catcher at the top was there in CP to.

[Stoffel]

Charms bar is most annoying when closing a full screen desktop window :/

That should be no problem for most since nobody likes full screen apps here :)

They all have big monitors, full screen apps are useless

[Brandon H Supervisor]

That should be no problem for most since nobody likes full screen apps here :)

They all have big monitors, full screen apps are useless

it's mostly a problem with games

[BajiRav]

That should be no problem for most since nobody likes full screen apps here :)

They all have big monitors, full screen apps are useless

I should have said "maximized" desktop window :) personally my time with Lightroom panels on the right and other maximized windows is a hit & miss with the charms bar.

[+Warwagon MVC]

[BajiRav]

In a nutshell, "who moved my cheese?". I kind of understand the music app thing but seriously, Windows update? :wacko: Not to mention, you can do Win + W for searching settings.

The start screen installer mess is no different from Windows 7.

[+Warwagon MVC]

In a nutshell, "who moved my cheese?". I kind of understand the music app thing but seriously, Windows update? :wacko: Not to mention, you can do Win + W for searching settings.

The start screen installer mess is no different from Windows 7.

A) It's not that they moved it, but the fact it has to run full screen

B) Sure Windows key + W works. But what about the average user?

[BajiRav]

A) It's not that they moved it, but the fact it has to run full screen

B) Sure Windows key + W works. But what about the average user?

A) You can use the desktop control panel

B) Since when does avg. user care about Windows update? It is supposed to do its work in the background and only prompt when user interaction is needed (restart, failures)