win8 I use Windows 8 like a power user! Do you?

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

I look SO forward to Windows 8. Get rid of legacy things like the Start Menu :devil:

[Dashel]

.

[Dashel]

What does "go into the Metro" mean? Do you mean go to Start? There are a lot of ways to do that. Click in the lower-left corner, press the Windows key, etc. Same ways you got to Start in Win7.

Try that in a non-full screen remote session and see how well that works in practice Brandon. Playing hide the button is just stupid since it's still there.

Thats funny Bloo. I think you've out jumped Dot on being ridiculously 'future looking' when the brand new Start menu is legacy.

[Noir Angel]

What does "go into the Metro" mean? Do you mean go to Start? There are a lot of ways to do that. Click in the lower-left corner, press the Windows key, etc. Same ways you got to Start in Win7.

Or do you mean to get to a Metro-style app? You can do that from Start, or from the switcher (swipe from left, or mouse to upper-left corner, or Win+Tab, etc.)

I think he's talking about the button in the bottom left of the screen? And if so I agree with him, it's poorly designed. But given the job Microsoft have done of ignoring their customers so far I doubt this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

And I never fail to see the amusement of the idea that new = better.

[ViperAFK]

This OS is a complete mess. You cannot deny the fact, from a support perspective, that people will hate it. How many people will be able to support XP, Vista, 7, AND 8 AND two different UI designs without going insane?

Yeah, I do tech support and am not looking forward to it. A lot of the people I talk to have a hard enough time finding the damn start menu, it'll be great when they have two different ui's!

[FloatingFatMan]

What does "go into the Metro" mean? Do you mean go to Start? There are a lot of ways to do that. Click in the lower-left corner, press the Windows key, etc. Same ways you got to Start in Win7.

Or do you mean to get to a Metro-style app? You can do that from Start, or from the switcher (swipe from left, or mouse to upper-left corner, or Win+Tab, etc.)

That, Brandon, is a precursor to the sort of questions an average computer user will ask.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

That, Brandon, is a precursor to the sort of questions an average computer user will ask.

Average users don't ask questions in Neowin beta forums about products they've never used :-)

They'll also not be aware of the term "Metro" (or "Metro style").

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Yeah, I do tech support and am not looking forward to it. A lot of the people I talk to have a hard enough time finding the damn start menu, it'll be great when they have two different ui's!

What different UIs?

[Kelxin]

What different UIs?

Ummmmm Windows 7, and Windows 8? That is what the thread is about btw....

or to be more "explanative" Classic Vs Metro

[HawkMan]

Ummmmm Windows 7, and Windows 8? That is what the thread is about btw....

or to be more "explanative" Classic Vs Metro

Not that's not what the thread is about,t hat's what the trolls derailed it to. the thread is about efficient use of windows 8 and how to use power user functions and such. So please brign the anti 8 trolling and vs discussion to another thread that's actually about that.

And I think support people will be able to handle it just fine. It's a lot easier to find out if a user is running windows 8, that to find out if a user is running XP, Vista or 7. and whatever OS you're one

"Plase move your mouse cursor to the lower left corner and click" or " click the windows flag key on your keyboard and type xxxxxxx".

If support people can't handle this. they need to find another job, Maybe cleaning dishes and McDonalds, though they may need a few months training to handle such a complicated task .

[FloatingFatMan]

Average users don't ask questions in Neowin beta forums about products they've never used :-)

They'll also not be aware of the term "Metro" (or "Metro style").

I said "precursor". That means something to come; as in, once Windows 8 comes out and people start to flood MS support centers as they no longer know how to work their PC.

"Go to the metro? What? You want me to take the train somewhere?"

[oldaccount1]

Haha is that the music from Bejeweled 2 Deluxe??!! :laugh:

[x-byte]

Try that in a non-full screen remote session and see how well that works in practice Brandon.

Hmm.. I've done that a lot already. Even on systems with multi-monitors No problem at all.

I'm almost asking myself if there even are many power users here at all ...

[ITFiend]

I have the same problems with VMWare, and HyperV on Server 2008 R2. I've had the same problem with Windows 8, Server 2012, Windows 7, and Server 2008 R2 in a virtual environment.

I don't have a problem when I RDS into the machines, but I won't have RDS enabled on every machine I install for security reasons.

Of course the redirection of modern hotkeys are not going to work in those situations. The virtualization platform outdates the operating system being installed. It has been this way since the first hardware virtualization products hit market, and it?s not likely to change in the future. Generally any new version of an OS always needs the VM service tools updated. VMware virtualization products have had minor to major issues with every single new version of Windows since version 1. This just isn't likely to change no matter what virtualization platform is being run.

Anyway, your only solution is to wait and live with the problem for now, use RDS, or use Hyper-V 3.0 as your virtualization host.

As for RDS and security, I enable RDS on absolutely everything wrapped around Suite B level IPsec certificates and smart cards. My division is entirely SCVMM 2012 based now, and RDS is the VMM console of choice (only console possible under Hyper-V/VMM if you?re requiring admins to use PIV smart cards on domain joined VM?s). The Hyper-V 3.0 console is drastically better than 2.0SP1, but it still can?t do smart card pass-thru while RDS can. Either way we had to move to RDS/WinRS years ago because vSphere?s WDDM display drivers have never been 100% stable for us.

At any rate, we started moving away from vSphere last year due to the SCVMM 2012 beta, and Hyper-V 3's beta accelerated that plan. The features/costs associated with the core of vSphere Enterprise (not to mention memory entitlements) no longer justify its use over Hyper-/VMM. Come release of Server 2012, VMware either has to drastically alter its pricing scheme or it?ll really start losing big pieces of the datacenter market. They have no real oomph over Hyper-V/VMM anymore to rely on.

[jakem1]

I said "precursor". That means something to come; as in, once Windows 8 comes out and people start to flood MS support centers as they no longer know how to work their PC.

"Go to the metro? What? You want me to take the train somewhere?"

:)

I think MS have made it clear that the RTM version of Windows 8 will start with a tutorial explaining how the new UI works so new users understand how to use it. It's not complicated so it shouldn't result in too many support calls.

I'm almost asking myself if there even are many power users here at all ...

They're all too busy clicking on the Start menu and yearning for the good old days of XP to respond :p

[FloatingFatMan]

:)

I think MS have made it clear that the RTM version of Windows 8 will start with a tutorial explaining how the new UI works so new users understand how to use it. It's not complicated so it shouldn't result in too many support calls.

You've clearly never worked in IT support. :p

If there's one constant in computers, it's this. Users are thick.

They're all too busy clicking on the Start menu and yearning for the good old days of XP to respond :p

I still think MS should have given people the best of both worlds. I've installed Classic Start Menu, which I prefer as really, it's what I'm used too. But I also have no problems with using the new Start screen. For me, the two serve different purposes. CSM gives me my familiar UI that I use for my productivity needs, and the Metro start screen is where I go to for the Metro apps. For me, that's an efficient combination of the two and saves me from a lot of the eye jarring screen switching seen in the OP's video.

I'll also happily use my dual monitor setup and have Metro one side, and desktop the other. They seem to work together fairly well.

[x-byte]

You've clearly never worked in IT support. :p

If there's one constant in computers, it's this. Users are thick.

I still think MS should have given people the best of both worlds. I've installed Classic Start Menu, which I prefer as really, it's what I'm used too. But I also have no problems with using the new Start screen. For me, the two serve different purposes. CSM gives me my familiar UI that I use for my productivity needs, and the Metro start screen is where I go to for the Metro apps. For me, that's an efficient combination of the two and saves me from a lot of the eye jarring screen switching seen in the OP's video.

I'll also happily use my dual monitor setup and have Metro one side, and desktop the other. They seem to work together fairly well.

Why not user the Start screen for both Metro apps and regular desktop apps?

[FloatingFatMan]

Why not user the Start screen for both Metro apps and regular desktop apps?

Because, as I already mentioned, the screen mode swapping between desktop and MetroUI does my eyes and head in, big time. I don't want a bleeping headache, thanks.

[Dot Matrix]

Not that's not what the thread is about,t hat's what the trolls derailed it to. the thread is about efficient use of windows 8 and how to use power user functions and such. So please brign the anti 8 trolling and vs discussion to another thread that's actually about that.

And I think support people will be able to handle it just fine. It's a lot easier to find out if a user is running windows 8, that to find out if a user is running XP, Vista or 7. and whatever OS you're one

"Plase move your mouse cursor to the lower left corner and click" or " click the windows flag key on your keyboard and type xxxxxxx".

If support people can't handle this. they need to find another job, Maybe cleaning dishes and McDonalds, though they may need a few months training to handle such a complicated task .

This. x1,000,000,000.

Things change guys. It's a fact of life, and computers change the most. There simply is no reason to be clinging to the Start Menu going forward. 10 years from now, computers will be wholly different, and it'll be nice to have an OS there waiting for us that will play nice with that hardware. Not a stinkin mouse driven Start Menu filled with tiny, misplaced 16x16 icons.

Back on topic: Once you sit down with Windows 8 for a while, and really focus on it - putting yourself outside your comfort zone - it really becomes a nice OS to use. I see people complaining about the little network "sidebar" that pops up on the desktop, and I wish I knew why, because I like it. IMO Windows needed something like that ages ago, not some weird pop up balloon or menu. Now if only Microsoft can take advantage of the "white space" there and show network stats and all that.

Also for those that go on about the Charms Bar, have you seen the MS Surface keyboard? It has keyboard shortcut keys right on it that you can press to trigger the menu, instead of working your mouse over to it. I find it funny that so-called "power users" are the ones complaining the loudest about keyboard shortcuts. You're the ones that should be using those more than the mouse. That is what being a power user is all about - taking advantage of what the OS is giving you. You're supposed to be working with the OS, not against it. If you want to do that, then yes, you are going to have trouble. It's the same thing with Windows 7.

[kopsarchidis]

Could somebody define what a power user is? If just using a few shortcuts makes you a power user, then custom installing an antivirus software makes you a security expert...

[FloatingFatMan]

Could somebody define what a power user is? If just using a few shortcuts makes you a power user, then custom installing an antivirus software makes you a security expert...

There's no such thing. It's just yet another totally stupid, media coined phrase to make people feel better about themselves because they can use a computer without a Tellytubby holding their hands.

Everyone's computer use is different. I'm a professional developer, I write software for a living, I can administer networks, strip a PC down to it's component parts, hell, I can even design and build one from bare PCB upwards (microelectronics training); but do I consider myself a "power" user? Naaah... I'm just some guy with a PC who uses it as per his needs.

[x-byte]

Because, as I already mentioned, the screen mode swapping between desktop and MetroUI does my eyes and head in, big time. I don't want a bleeping headache, thanks.

I haven't checked, but I think you can disable that in Ease of Use. Can check later today.

Could somebody define what a power user is? If just using a few shortcuts makes you a power user, then custom installing an antivirus software makes you a security expert...

I would say it is someone who know where most of the settings in Windows are. And can adjust Windows after his own preferences. A regular user is someone that use the productivity tools he have installed.

[x-byte]

Can't edit my post. But you can turn off the animation transition for the start menu and the desktop app in Ease of Access center. in the classic Control Panel. If that what you was talking about, FloatingFatMan

Go to:

Control Panel\Ease of Access\Ease of Access Center\Make it easier to focus on tasks

and turn off most unnecessary animations

[Dashel]

Hmm.. I've done that a lot already. Even on systems with multi-monitors No problem at all.

I'm almost asking myself if there even are many power users here at all ...

That claim is laughable, as is your stance on power users.

Hey Dot and Hawk, go look at the OP before you get on your high horses about the 'point' of this tread. Donkey.

And if you Mac loving idiots don't stop with the 'keyboard shortcuts are for power users 'durhurr' I'm going to start cutting people.

[xWhiplash]

Would people stop saying things change and everybody just needs to deal with it? We are consumers. Fine, we will not buy Windows 8, which will make Windows 8 sales much lower, which will hurt you guys indirectly because if 8 has horrible sales, what developer will make dedicated metro versions?

Geez, all we are asking for is a couple of UI elements for the desktop version of the OS. Not these hidden menus and charms bar crap.

If they just had a UI button that started the Start Screen (NOTE: not start MENU), most of the complaints will go away.

So as a consumer, I am not going put up with the change. I simply will never buy a MS product again when they completely remove the desktop interface (you know it is coming).

Apple is doing the right thing here. Launchpad is completely, 100% optional. We still have the dock and I can still use my computer the way I want to use it, not the way THEY want me to use it.

So please, why are you Metro lovers so against OPTIONS? Are you afraid they metro will fail unless they force it on us?

10 years later we might not be using mice, but we also might still be using them. You get more precision with mice than what can possibly replace it (especially very expensive gaming mice).