Windows Start Menu Discussion


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Dot Matrix

What's not consistent about Aero?

AERO, like all Microsoft works for some reason, was only a half realized idea. Once you start running legacy widgets, or dive deep enough into the OS, there was still a ton of crap that didn't conform to AERO guidelines.

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abysal

And yet all the one that I know (not very computer literate) have a hell hole of a "all programs" menu. Why? Because they install all sorts of crap in it but never organize. Why? Because the old start menu isn't very intuitive at all on how to organize the start, how to create a new folder, and how to move a new folder. The new metro screen solves this problem for the average person. And of course, you don't have to deal with the UAC prompt if the item happens to be in the "All Users" folder.

I think a better approach for Microsoft would have been to continue to further refine the current start menu, to allow for better manageability, maybe even expand the width by 50 pixels or so. Unfortunately with it's full screen, and app clutter, the metro start screen also has similar draw backs to the start menu. So where's the benefit?

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neo1911

Well, have you noticed that Microsoft Office 2010 came long before Windows 8's guidelines?

What has that got to do with guidelines? The color bands appear on non metro tiles irrespective of the application.

You are not understanding the problem. Not a show stopper bug but definitely annoying.

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Dot Matrix

I think a better approach for Microsoft would have been to continue to further refine the current start menu, to allow for better manageability, maybe even expand the width by 50 pixels or so. Unfortunately with it's full screen, and app clutter, the metro start screen also has similar draw backs to the start menu. So where's the benefit?

But "app clutter" can be dealt with quicker and more easily than with the Start Menu.

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Subhadip

What has that got to do with guidelines? The color bands appear on non metro tiles irrespective of the application.

You are not understanding the problem. Not a show stopper bug but definitely annoying.

The Desktop app tiles on the Start screen will be re-done for RTM. A recent demo from Microsoft last month revealed the same - the icon will be larger and centered, text will go down, unlike the current style which is pretty ugly and thankfully temporary. Also, pretty much consistent with the Metro tiles though of course Desktop tiles will be static.

A more pressing issue with Metro UI is the lack of ClearType. Some might argue that there will be a whole generation of high-DPI devices Windows 8 is designed for, and that is definitely correct. But most laptops in 2012 and before still use 1366x768 - definitely not dense enough to hide aliasing.

And yes, Search is brilliant but it can do with an "All Results" tab. IIRC, this was there for DP. Now that there are no crippling real estate limitations, All Results should certainly be an option, if not default.

I am sure these will be fixed by RTM time.

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neo1911

I have a feeling, not much is going to change except few icons and the ugly non aero theme in RTM.

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Rickkins

see, this is what I don't understand from people like you.

if the start screen is the only thing you don't like why not just install one of the start menu replacers and be done with it? many of them (ok, just 2 right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if that number rises) are starting to allow logging in straight to the desktop bypassing the start screen all together, so I don't see what the problem is, especially if you like all the other improvements.

Well, that happens to be exactly what I have been doing, using the classic shell start thing. Even boots me directly into desktop, so I never have to even see metro. I like that. Now, unless ms somehow finds a way to disable that, and other, fixes, I could be perfectly happy with win8.

That said, given the direction ms seems to be taking, and the overall arrogance of this company, if those who despise this new direction don't shout it at the top of our lungs(and even then likely) then our fates will truly be sealed, and we'll be condemned to live with this turd(metro) forevermore.

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Noir Angel

You have a transparent taskbar and non transparent Window borders. How in the hell, exactly, is that more consistent?

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Dot Matrix

That said, given the direction ms seems to be taking, and the overall arrogance of this company, if those who despise this new direction don't shout it at the top of our lungs(and even then likely) then our fates will truly be sealed, and we'll be condemned to live with this turd(metro) forevermore.

How is taking the company in new directions arrogance? They obviously have a new goal in mind with Windows, Office, and the rest of their services. Unification, interoperability, mobility, and neutrality. Their products are finally coming together in ways never before seen, and somehow that's a bad thing?

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Noir Angel

Look at how many people their design decisions are alienating. Can you honestly tell me you think that's a sign of progress?

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Dot Matrix

Look at how many people their design decisions are alienating. Can you honestly tell me you think that's a sign of progress?

Obviously change will do that. But so far Microsoft services and products are benefiting from these changes.

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Noir Angel

Not true. The vast majority of people, even tech geeks enjoyed and adapted to the design of the Windows 7 superbar because it was a useful and intuitive design feature.

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Dot Matrix

Not true. The vast majority of people, even tech geeks enjoyed and adapted to the design of the Windows 7 superbar because it was a useful and intuitive design feature.

And the unification of their services and products isn't? Because I disagree

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+trag3dy

And the unification of their services and products isn't? Because I disagree

You don't need the metro start screen to do that. You don't need tacky full screen dedicated applications to get all the features the metro start menu has. You just need one and we've all been using it for many years: a web browser.

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Dot Matrix

You don't need the metro start screen to do that. You don't need tacky full screen dedicated applications to get all the features the metro start menu has. You just need one and we've all been using it for many years: a web browser.

There's a couple things wrong wit that.

How do you get that to work and integrate with the desktop? And, two, how do you design tablets around that?

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Noir Angel

And the unification of their services and products isn't? Because I disagree

Given how many people are complaining about the start screen, yeah apparently it isn't. Unification is only a good argument when the devices you're "unifying" operate around similar paradigms. Desktop computers and tablets don't operate around similar paradigms. Apple get it, Microsoft it seems do not.

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+trag3dy

There's a couple things wrong wit that.

How do you get that to work and integrate with the desktop? And, two, how do you design tablets around that?

Why does it need to integrate with the desktop? If you want full screen applications the F11 button has been a "feature" in web browsers for as long as I can remember and comes with all of those widgets (mail, weather, social integration, blah blah blah) you are touting in the metro start screen for free.

As for tablets - all I know is that my pc is not one therefor an interface that is designed for touch is completely useless to me.

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Dot Matrix

Given how many people are complaining about the start screen, yeah apparently it isn't. Unification is only a good argument when the devices you're "unifying" operate around similar paradigms. Desktop computers and tablets don't operate around similar paradigms. Apple get it, Microsoft it seems do not.

Tablets and Desktop PCs have been shown that they can operate around the same paradigm. Take a look at Surface and the multitude of AiOs appearing on the market. Guess what? They can be used as traditional setups or utilize touch. Cool, huh?

Why does it need to integrate with the desktop? If you want full screen applications the F11 button has been a "feature" in web browsers for as long as I can remember and comes with all of those widgets (mail, weather, social integration, blah blah blah) you are touting in the metro start screen for free.

As for tablets - all I know is that my pc is not one therefor an interface that is designed for touch is completely useless to me.

Because why make the user go out and find these apps on their own, when you can bring them to them? If you don't want the metro apps, don't use them. Simple. But the truth is, these apps are going to make people's lives easier. Ordinary users don't normally multitask like you and me.

Also, your PC might not be a tablet now, but in the future.... ? Touch isn't going away, the party has only just begun.

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+trag3dy

Tablets and Desktop PCs have been shown that they can operate around the same paradigm. Take a look at Surface and the multitude of AiOs appearing on the market. Guess what? They can be used as traditional setups or utilize touch. Cool, huh?

Because why make the user go out and find these apps on their own, when you can bring them to them? If you don't want the metro apps, don't use them. Simple. But the truth is, these apps are going to make people's lives easier. Ordinary users don't normally multitask like you and me.

Also, your PC might not be a tablet now, but in the future.... ? Touch isn't going away, the party has only just begun.

Yeah, future. As in far future. Desktop pcs aren't going to change all that drastically in the next 5 to 10 years.

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Rickkins

How is taking the company in new directions arrogance? They obviously have a new goal in mind with Windows, Office, and the rest of their services. Unification, interoperability, mobility, and neutrality. Their products are finally coming together in ways never before seen, and somehow that's a bad thing?

The arrogance derives from the giant middle finger ms is showing to the billion or so desktop pc users who have already bought into the desktop environment. And no, there is no other way to look at it.

"Unification, interoperability, mobility, and neutrality"...??? What a load of hogwash. This bull is nothing more than a greedy money grab, and the hell with current users. And frankly, all the long winded attempts to sell this as anything but fool no one.

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Dot Matrix

The arrogance derives from the giant middle finger ms is showing to the billion or so desktop pc users who have already bought into the desktop environment. And no, there is no other way to look at it.

And again, the desktop is still there in Windows 8, so I ask again, where is the arrogance? Sorry, but sis yo really expect to be using the 90's desktop paradigm forever?

"Unification, interoperability, mobility, and neutrality"...??? What a load of hogwash. This bull is nothing more than a greedy money grab, and the hell with current users. And frankly, all the long winded attempts to sell this as anything but fool no one.

If that's honestly the way you feel, it seems you should not be using commercial software at all... Because the Hell if all my products and services should work together and provide a seamless UX, right? Because it's nothing more than a money grab, right? Please. The money grab issue is old, and tired.

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Stoffel

The arrogance derives from the giant middle finger ms is showing to the billion or so desktop pc users who have already bought into the desktop environment. And no, there is no other way to look at it.

"Unification, interoperability, mobility, and neutrality"...??? What a load of hogwash. This bull is nothing more than a greedy money grab, and the hell with current users. And frankly, all the long winded attempts to sell this as anything but fool no one.

After all this crying you still can't just delete all the metro apps from the start screen, put the links up that you would normally have in your start menu and call it a day.

I feel sorry for you

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Rickkins
The money grab issue is old, and tired.

The constantly trying to tell folks that metro is the second coming is what's getting old and tired.

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Rickkins

After all this crying you still can't just delete all the metro apps from the start screen, put the links up that you would normally have in your start menu and call it a day.

I feel sorry for you

Yanno, if ya had even bothered to read what I wrote, in this very thread.....ah f*** it, not worth my breath.

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Noir Angel

If that's honestly the way you feel, it seems you should not be using commercial software at all... Because the Hell if all my products and services should work together and provide a seamless UX, right? Because it's nothing more than a money grab, right? Please. The money grab issue is old, and tired.

By your reasoning I guess that Apple shouldn't be making commercial products either, then? given that they apparently seem to think it's more than possible for products to be interoperable without forcing them to all use the same UI.

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