Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

[George P Global Moderator]

No, they do not. A desktop computer is a desktop computer. Try playing Assassin's Creed or Mass Effect 3 on a tablet. A desktop computer has absolutely no need for a tablet UI.

The start screen doesn't get in the way of your gaming. Besides, I know people who play those games on their laptops, be it a 13" or 15" screen. In the end a laptop and a tablet are pretty close other than not having a keyboard connect all the time. How is it laptops are fine for gaming but a tablet type formfactor isn't? They've got USB ports, your controller will still work, if the screen size is fine with you then you can game just as well. Of course this does depend on the GPU but that's the same on any type of device regardless.

The start screen has zero impact on gaming.

[Noir Angel]

Seeing how I can play Halo 2 and CoD 4 on my mid range laptop, in a few years that might be possible. Just sayin.

Tablets will never have the same power as desktop computers. Being able to play a game several years old on modern hardware isn't an impressive feat.

[PGHammer]

I think they're going to hurt their (originally excellent) chance of thriving with this in the mobile environment by forcing it into the desktop.

Also, I realise I am in the minority with this, but am I the only one who isn't all that impressed with live tiles? Are we all so ADD and overstimulated these days that we have to have information and animations constantly flashing at us? :huh:

And if they don't do it, WinRT *will* lose to Android and iOS simply due to the number of supported devices. However, I strongly suspect that you largely don't care about that, as it's *way above your paygrade*.

Right now, I don't run any WinRT *apps* (the one RT app I did run, AccuWeather, is being rewritten for the RTM); however, I do get their reason for being despite that.

Devices - such as tablets - have to be faced and dealt with by Microsoft; if they don't, they will eat Windows' lunch. (Unlike the minority, I don't see tablets going away, for the simple reason that they fit into a space that even notebooks and netbooks, let alone Ultrabooks, are too large for; I mentioned my MD cousin and her Eee Transformer Prime - one app she has installed is Citrix' GoToMyPC for Android, which she uses to connect to her traditional notebook back in her office. Why the Transformer Prime and not her notebook? Two reasons - the Transformer Prime has better battery life - even without the keyboard dock - than her notebook; the second is that the Transformer Prime is lighter than her notebook.)

However, it is now possible that an RT version of the Transformer Prime could appear down the road (the hardware supports WindowsRT right now; the issue is firmware). A WindowsRT/OfficeRT tag-team on a Transformer Prime-type device will definitely steal sales from other tablets (running Android and iOS) and given that OfficeRT is not merely file-compatible with Office 2013, but is UI-compatible as well (no learning curve at all) gives Windows RT a greater value than either Android or iOS for that reason alone.

[Vice]

Why does my desktop PC need to evolve?

Why does an i7 3.33Ghz, 18GB of ram computer need to evolve to a more mobile and encompassing machine? If I want mobile, I will buy a $400 mobile device. Not use my $4,000 computer with 30" monitors to run full screen applications.

Pfff only 18GB of RAM?! I got 32GB and Three 30" Monitors! - The weather in Metro has never looked so good I can practically feel the rain on my face! :rofl:

[Dot Matrix]

Tablets will never have the same power as desktop computers. Being able to play a game several years old on modern hardware isn't an impressive feat.

What!? You're talking out the rear now. The same thing was said about laptops, but that didn't last long, did it?

[x-byte]

Um yes they are being forced. In three years when their computer dies, and go to Dell or someplace for a new one. What will be included?

You can "downgrade" ...

How are these steps easier than it was in Win 7? It's like going backwards. I have to go back and forth to that childish looking metro interface with these full screen applications. What Microsoft should have done was allow desktop users to have the interface optional or at least boot to a traditional desktop. I hate having to go back and forth to metro. I use WIndows Media Center for TV but guess what i can't boot directly into it. I have a stong feeling that Win 8 will not be received well by users of non touch screen devices.

Then don't use Metro then. The Start Screen is only for selecting apps. Remove the Metro apps and just have the Desktop apps. You people really makes things harder then they are.

[Noir Angel]

What!? You're talking out the rear now. The same thing was said about laptops, but that didn't last long, did it?

The video cards in even high end laptops still don't match the power of discreet video cards.

[Deihmos]

And if they don't do it, WinRT *will* lose to Android and iOS simply due to the number of supported devices. However, I strongly suspect that you largely don't care about that, as it's *way above your paygrade*.

How is forcing a tablet like OS on the desktop suppose to help Microsoft in the mobile space? When I am on a tablet I am using touch screen and fullscreen apps are fine. When I am on a desktop I don't want any of that and would have 3 - 4 windows open at the same time. Microsoft should have made it optional or customizable to the user needs.

[dangel]

I use WIndows Media Center for TV but guess what i can't boot directly into it.

Sidenote, you can actually (I do) and if you use MediaBrowser (which you probably do) there's an option to boot into that directly too. It's Windows, it's configurable in all sorts of fantastic ways :)

Same way as you'll be able to use a third party start menu and completely ignore Metro if you really want to. 99.9% of my day on W8 has nothing to do with Metro at all seeing as the Start menu and start screen aren't really that useful versus the start bar. I barely used the start menu in 7 and even when I did it was only to instant search for something I hadn't got pinned.

[Dot Matrix]

The video cards in even high end laptops still don't match the power of discreet video cards.

The dual cards in my buddie's XPS disagrees.

[Charisma Veteran]

I like live tiles - but I'd remind those who don't to simply delete them - it's your start screen, not mine, and it's quite configurable. I'd say more the problem is that they've killed off widgets but live tiles only exist on the start screen so i can't see them from the desktop (so i'm using rainmeter)

Are the people who don't like live tiles all iOS users perchance? :)

I can't speak for others, but nope, iOS is my least favourite actually. At work I use Windows 7, at home I have Linux (various distros) and Windows, and my mobile devices are a BlackBerry with BBOS7 and a Samsung Galaxy Tab with Android 3.2 (I know, I know, I'll upgrade eventually, just been too busy most of the time and too lazy when I'm not :laugh: )

I don't think I'd care as much for the live tiles on a tablet/phone, BUT I'd like them better there than on my desktop/laptop screen.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .] so it's pretty clear to me that, regardless of its value, nobody wants to deal with the new interface Microsoft is trying so hard to push up our throat.

[. . .]

Nobody? At least some people clearly do, as is evident from those who have said they enjoy it. For all you know, it could be that the majority of people (not just people on Neowin, but all people throughout the world who will use Windows 8) will.

[Noir Angel]

Even on a phone / tablet I think they're overrated. Even on Android I only really used the google search widget and the power control widget that allows you to easily enable and disable wifi and GPS.

Nobody? At least some people clearly do, as is evident from those who have said they enjoy it. For all you know, it could be that the majority of people (not just people on Neowin, but all people throughout the world who will use Windows 8) will.

The reactions to things on sites like Neowin have usually been a good barometer for how software products have performed, the reactions to Vista and 7 both pretty much echoed what the market eventually said about them. The reaction to Windows 8 on most tech sites is about 85% negative.

[dangel]

How is forcing a tablet like OS unto the desktop suppose to help Microsoft in the mobile space?

Commonality, same app multiple platforms, branding etc - oddly my corp is after the same thing: a common look and feel for all our software. Everybody uses Windows, but nobody uses it on the tablet space or mobile space versus the market leaders who are way out in front. It might pay off if they get it right and they have to start somewhere. Who knows, perhaps MS can afford the desktop hit for this iteration in exchange for a foot in the door of the mobile world.

[x-byte]

How is forcing a tablet like OS unto the desktop suppose to help Microsoft in the mobile space? When I am on a tablet I am using touch screen and fullscreen apps are fine. When I am on a desktop I don't want any of that and would have 3 - 4 windows open at the same time. Microsoft should have made it optional or customizable to the user needs.

sigh.. why even bother...

Then you open your x number of damn applications at the same time. No one is forcing you to use Metro apps at all. I have 20 apps open now in Windows 8. How about that.

Think about Windows 8 like this. It is designed for the future. You will most likely have an smart phone, a tablet, plus maybe a laptop/desktop. And what would be best, a unified interface for all of them, or different one? The start screen and Metro is there to make things easier in the future because of all the form factors we will have. That you guys don't see that is baffling.

[George P Global Moderator]

How is forcing a tablet like OS unto the desktop suppose to help Microsoft in the mobile space? When I am on a tablet I am using touch screen and fullscreen apps are fine. When I am on a desktop I don't want any of that and would have 3 - 4 windows open at the same time. Microsoft should have made it optional or customizable to the user needs.

If it was optional then you wouldn't even use it, people wouldn't get to know it and the tablets would sit on the store shelves because people wouldn't know about it. Fact is, MS tried giving you and their OEM partners options, options to go crazy with devices and it went nowhere, Apple showed up and took the tablet market for itself while MS was talking about these devices back when XP was new. OEMs could skin those, go wild, make cool devices and so on. They didn't do it with XP, they didn't do it with Vista and they sure as hell haven't done it with 7.

At some point MS said screw it, if all you're going to do is ignore it then we won't give you the chance. Now if you personally don't like it then fine, don't use it, stick with something else or change to something else. Those are all valid options to take, and have always been. The fact is mobile is the future, it's been the future for years. Laptops have been outselling traditional desktop PCs for years, they've made up the bulk of the PC market for years, tablets are going to eat into that as well. Soon your big hunking tower will be even more of the minority of computing devices out there. It's the sad truth as much as I don't like it but I see it, other companies see it, MS sees it so I figure you and everyone else should have realized it by now also.

[Noir Angel]

sigh.. why even bother...

Then you open your x number of damn applications at the same time. No one is forcing you to use Metro apps at all. I have 20 apps open now in Windows 8. How about that.

Think about Windows 8 like this. It is designed for the future. You will most likely have an smart phone, a tablet, plus maybe a laptop/desktop. And what would be best, a unified interface for all of them, or different one? The start screen and Metro is there to make things easier in the future because of all the form factors we will have. That you guys don't see that is baffling.

The point you're not getting is that unification is NOT NECESSARY. I don't need a desktop PC to function like a tablet.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Live tiles on a phone do make sense imho. On a traditional desktop or laptop on the other hand - not so much. Certainly not when you have to switch back and forth between desktop and Metro start screen to see the live tiles.

A tablet like the Surface is an entirely different matter though.

[xWhiplash]

You can "downgrade" ...

Then don't use Metro then. The Start Screen is only for selecting apps. Remove the Metro apps and just have the Desktop apps. You people really makes things harder then they are.

You people really need to start understanding that Metro, frankly sucks for some people. It doesnt matter if the start screen is awesome or not. The fact that it is full screen irritates a lot of people.

If I am on a website or looking at an email, that tells me a very long folder path, I can have the start menu open and start typing the path without have the source go away from a full screen start menu.

[Charisma Veteran]

If it was optional then you wouldn't even use it, people wouldn't get to know it and the tablets would sit on the store shelves because people wouldn't know about it.

This is simply not true--look at the success of the iPad, no Mac users had trouble getting used to that interface. No PC users did either. It's a separate type of device, with a separate set of functions and things it's meant for. You use it for different things and you interact with it in a different way. It is allowed to be different, and it should be.

Besides... if it's so nice, then why would nobody use it if given the option? =/

[xWhiplash]

The point you're not getting is that unification is NOT NECESSARY. I don't need a desktop PC to function like a tablet.

Agreed. Give me one good explanation why my studio computer used for video and audio production (i7 3.33 Ghz with 18GB of ram) needs to act like a tablet?

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

Also, I realise I am in the minority with this, but am I the only one who isn't all that impressed with live tiles? Are we all so ADD and overstimulated these days that we have to have information and animations constantly flashing at us? :huh:

I think the main reason so many of us love the Live Tile concept is due to how useful we find it. Why go through the time and effort of opening every app to check for updates, when I can see whether I have new emails, notifications, RSS feeds, etc., and I can see exactly what the new ones are, by just glancing at the Start Screen? That isn't the only use I've experienced with the tiles: Some apps will display dynamic content on their tile that isn't necessarily a new update (e.g. an inspirational quote or a photo I haven't seen for a while that brings back memories when I see it). I enjoy that very much.

[Noir Angel]

This is simply not true--look at the success of the iPad, no Mac users had trouble getting used to that interface. No PC users did either. It's a separate type of device, with a separate set of functions and things it's meant for. You use it for different things and you interact with it in a different way. It is allowed to be different, and it should be.

Besides... if it's so nice, then why would nobody use it if given the option? =/

A point I've been trying to make all along, thank you. Apple don't seem to think all their devices need the same UI to sell on their own merits. And that's precisely that. Let a PC be a PC, and let a tablet be a tablet.

[George P Global Moderator]

Live tiles on a phone do make sense imho. On a traditional desktop or laptop on the other hand - not so much. Certainly not when you have to switch back and forth between desktop and Metro start screen to see the live tiles.

A tablet like the Surface is an entirely different matter though.

One could say gadgets/widgets on the desktop made more sense, just use peak to see them and so on, but even those went no where and are now dead. For me I think people view live tiles in the wrong way. It's not about jumping back to the start screen to look at them and then jumping back, though that's one option. It's more about looking at them before you open the app in question, so you know if you should. Right now I'd have to keep different apps open, often minimized to the tray so they can grab info and then let me know of something comes. Or I'd have them open and minimized to the taskbar and then switch to them from time to time to check on them. I personally don't see much of the difference here other than now I can kit winkey, look at the tiles to see if I need to even open the apps and if not then I don't, just winkey again and go back to what I was doing. Or winkey+d etc.

I think there's a benefit to not having to keep 20+ things open all the time to get updates.

[dangel]

You people really need to start understanding that Metro, frankly sucks for some people. It doesnt matter if the start screen is awesome or not. The fact that it is full screen irritates a lot of people.

If I am on a website or looking at an email, that tells me a very long folder path, I can have the start menu open and start typing the path without have the source go away from a full screen start menu.

Windows + R, or open explorer (Win + E, or click the folder on your start bar) and paste it in there. No idea why you'd type it by hand versus cut and paste. Not being snarky, just not clear on the issue.