Isn't Windows 8 the start of something great?

[Noir Angel]

But when I log in, I only start applications that I want to use. There aren't any Metro applications that hit me as being "must use" enough to merit having it pushed into my face. I don't care for live tiles as I have already said, they serve no function to me. I only travel short distances, if I want to see what the weather is like I look out of my window. If I want to check my email I open Outlook. Otherwise I just launch Steam and start playing a game. And I don't have those things open in the background consuming memory and CPU cycles, they're there when I need them and they go away when they don't. And that's my major gripe with the start screen, it takes away a lot of the choice and customisation that Windows users are used to.

And I can respect that. I think you are right--we like/need different things in our desktops.

I really like being able to have multiple windows, partially overlapping if necessary, resizing, etc. It allows me to function most efficiently. For example--right now I can see my Outlook inbox, my ticket-tracking system for IT requests that come in, this Firefox window, and the IE window (for our internal Sharepoint site) all at once. I can keep an eye on everything without having to switch around all the time and have fullscreen flashing around constantly. At home it is a similar story with Firefox, Skype, IRC, iTunes/Rhythmbox. I can minimise if needed, or I can have part of a window hidden by another so I can just see a certain area as needed (say, an area where notifications appear), switching to it when necessary... etc.

I for one find being able to just minimise something and get into something else to be more productive to my workflow than having to switch from one fullscreen application to another.

[dangel]

Except there is more of a chance I will need to scroll down to see more folders. The start menu is much larger and has a lot more folders before the need to scroll.

I guess I forgot Windows 8 cannot be used the way we want it to. Only the way other people want me to use it. I prefer to type it in the start menu, it is now a habit and incredibly fast for me to do so.

Um, except you're wrong - because the run box pop out is resizable and will remember it's height too.. There's a pull-out gripper on the top right.

In other words you can have it the entire height and width of your screen..

People forget the desktop has been improved a lot in 8, it's not just a new Start Screen.

[xWhiplash]

And I can respect that. I think you are right--we like/need different things in our desktops.

I really like being able to have multiple windows, partially overlapping if necessary, resizing, etc. It allows me to function most efficiently. For example--right now I can see my Outlook inbox, my ticket-tracking system for IT requests that come in, this Firefox window, and the IE window (for our internal Sharepoint site) all at once. I can keep an eye on everything without having to switch around all the time and have fullscreen flashing around constantly. At home it is a similar story with Firefox, Skype, IRC, iTunes/Rhythmbox. I can minimise if needed, or I can have part of a window hidden by another so I can just see a certain area as needed (say, an area where notifications appear), switching to it when necessary... etc.

Agreed. I am the same way.

[George P Global Moderator]

And I can respect that. I think you are right--we like/need different things in our desktops.

I really like being able to have multiple windows, partially overlapping if necessary, resizing, etc. It allows me to function most efficiently. For example--right now I can see my Outlook inbox, my ticket-tracking system for IT requests that come in, this Firefox window, and the IE window (for our internal Sharepoint site) all at once. I can keep an eye on everything without having to switch around all the time and have fullscreen flashing around constantly. At home it is a similar story with Firefox, Skype, IRC, iTunes/Rhythmbox. I can minimise if needed, or I can have part of a window hidden by another so I can just see a certain area as needed (say, an area where notifications appear), switching to it when necessary... etc.

But all of that is still there, the desktop still works and acts the same, you can still have all those windows opened and move between them like you do. I don't see how the start screen changes this at all, if the apps aren't pinned then you'll only be bringing it up for the short time it takes you to type the app name and hit enter. You'll be right back into the desktop then. I just don't see it as that big of a problem for the short period of time I'll be seeing it on my desktop. The other 99% of the time i'll be seeing my open desktop apps and moving between them.

[dangel]

But when I log in, I only start applications that I want to use. There aren't any Metro applications that hit me as being "must use" enough to merit having it pushed into my face. I don't care for live tiles as I have already said, they serve no function to me. I only travel short distances, if I want to see what the weather is like I look out of my window. If I want to check my email I open Outlook. Otherwise I just launch Steam and start playing a game. And I don't have those things open in the background consuming memory and CPU cycles, they're there when I need them and they go away when they don't. And that's my major gripe with the start screen, it takes away a lot of the choice and customisation that Windows users are used to.

First, Live tiles are 'dead' by default - you have to configure them to get them to update. Second, the whole premise of metro is 'low power' and 'low resources' and metro apps are completely suspended when not in use (8 will use less resources by default anyway it's far more optimised than 7). Third, remove the tiles and be done with them completely - it's your menu.

What choice and customisation are you after exactly btw?

[Tarvis123]

I'm used to using the start menu to run control panel/administrative tools/network/documents/etc so Windows 8 definitely makes me feel a little disoriented, especially mixed in with the animations (anyway to disable these), when I try to run things the way I'm used to. I'm not really a fan of having icons on my desktop or many applications pinned to the superbar, but might need to for Windows 8.

Live tiles, I don't see the need for, as if I wanted to see the current weather information/emails notification/news/whatever, I can install a plugin that sits in Google Chrome to tell me the same information, which is the application I'm going to be using probably 95% of the time anyways. Would be far more convenient here than on a start screen if it's information I need to be aware of frequently.

Not really a fan of a "unified experience" as when I get a new device, part of the enjoyment is the new experience of a UI. I can see the benefits of having a unified experience, but it's not a priority for me.

To whoever thinks tablets are going to match the power of desktops, keep dreaming. Even the laptops with high processing/video capabilities have to be plugged in to an outlet to use their full power anyways. It's not like we are going to have tablets walking around in offices/homes running intensive programs without killing the battery in 5 minutes, unless you are walking around with it attached to an extension cord.

I really think Microsoft, while making some good advances in Windows 8, have unfortunately made a lot of steps back in regards to the UI and changes just for the sake of change. I'll probably upgrade my laptop to it at some point, once some of my programs I use most frequently become compatible with it, but I will never upgrade my parent's PC to it because of the amount of complaints/questions I would get in regards to it. I hope Microsoft has made numerous improvements since the Release Preview, because so far it seems the reception hasn't been the best.

[Noir Angel]

First, Live tiles are 'dead' by default - you have to configure them to get them to update. Second, the whole premise of metro is 'low power' and 'low resources' and metro apps are completely suspended when not in use (8 will use less resources by default anyway it's far more optimised than 7). Third, remove the tiles and be done with them completely - it's your menu.

What choice and customisation are you after exactly btw?

The choice of not having the metro screen slap me in the face every time I boot my computer up. And the choice for my files to open by default with the Windows applications and not the Metro applications.

[nominak]

The UI is ugly, but the start screen has a lot of neat features.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

As an aside: I'm quite amazed how civilised this thread has been thus far, compared to other Windows 8 threads. (Y)

[George P Global Moderator]

I'm used to using the start menu to run control panel/administrative tools/network/documents/etc so Windows 8 definitely makes me feel a little disoriented, especially mixed in with the animations (anyway to disable these), when I try to run things the way I'm used to. I'm not really a fan of having icons on my desktop or many applications pinned to the superbar, but might need to for Windows 8.

Most of those things, if not all of them, are in the new power user menu, instead of doing a left click in the lower left corner you'd now do a right click or use the kb shortcut winkey+x. It has even more options in it than the start menu did, quite a few things let me bypass the main control panel now while before the only way I'd be able to is if I used the run command and opened that part directly. Links to things like device manager etc. All in all the new menu is more useful than the right side of the start menu was.

[dangel]

The choice of not having the metro screen slap me in the face every time I boot my computer up. And the choice for my files to open by default with the Windows applications and not the Metro applications.

So configure your system to suit you! Both things are already possible..

You might be setting the bar a little high if you expect MS to tailor it to you specifically but if they're your big gripes then solutions exist so it's all good :)

Personally I just dragged the desktop tile to the top left of the start screen and now hitting enter drops me to the desktop. Always a heap of ways to do the same thing.

[Tarvis123]

Most of those things, if not all of them, are in the new power user menu, instead of doing a left click in the lower left corner you'd now do a right click or use the kb shortcut winkey+x. It has even more options in it than the start menu did, quite a few things let me bypass the main control panel now while before the only way I'd be able to is if I used the run command and opened that part directly. Links to things like device manager etc. All in all the new menu is more useful than the right side of the start menu was.

Oh yeah, I remember reading about that menu, but forgot about it all together. Thanks. (Y)

[Noir Angel]

So configure your system to suit you! Both things are already possible..

You might be setting the bar a little high if you expect MS to tailor it to you specifically but if they're your big gripes then solutions exist so it's all good :)

Personally I just dragged the desktop tile to the top left of the start screen and now hitting enter drops me to the desktop. Always a heap of ways to do the same thing.

Not really, all of the solutions to bypass the start screen are very hackish in nature. I'd be happier if there were official ways to do it. And to the best of my knowledge, so far, nobody has figured out how to re-enable glass on the post-RP builds yet.

[Buttus]

And I can respect that. I think you are right--we like/need different things in our desktops.

I really like being able to have multiple windows, partially overlapping if necessary, resizing, etc. It allows me to function most efficiently. For example--right now I can see my Outlook inbox, my ticket-tracking system for IT requests that come in, this Firefox window, and the IE window (for our internal Sharepoint site) all at once. I can keep an eye on everything without having to switch around all the time and have fullscreen flashing around constantly. At home it is a similar story with Firefox, Skype, IRC, iTunes/Rhythmbox. I can minimise if needed, or I can have part of a window hidden by another so I can just see a certain area as needed (say, an area where notifications appear), switching to it when necessary... etc.

This +1000! At work i have 4 windows open constantly, all different sizes that i switch between and need to see them all at the same time. at home, not so much, but still a personal preference that i like having more than one thing going on at a time...

plus, make the metro interface scroll up/down instead of left/right, or make it an option. i like using my mouse wheel!

[argonite]

The choice of not having the metro screen slap me in the face every time I boot my computer up. And the choice for my files to open by default with the Windows applications and not the Metro applications.

Keyword here is 'default'. This is default behaviour, and you can change it. You haven't lost choice here.

[PGHammer]

But that wasn't my real point, my point was that these machines are designed to do different things.

I'm not disagreeing with that. My issue with portable hardware to date is that it largely did NOT meet MY needs for portable hardware.

The current design of the Eee Transformer Prime COULD meet those needs - if it came with the right OS in firmware (and Android, even Ice Cream Sandwich, isn't it).

Notice that I didn't say that Android is a bad OS, and especially not Ice Cream Sandwich. Even Honeycomb (the default on the Transformer Prime TF-201) is not bad. The problem Android and iOS have is that neither is even WindowsRT (which has zero learning curve coming from Windows 8 - which I run on my desktop) - let alone Windows 8.

It's not touch support - my desktop doesn't have any. If I were to buy a Transformer Prime/RT, it would be purchased with the optional keyboard/dock - not due to the improved time between charges - which would certainly be a consideration - but because it includes a *keyboard*. Touch, in other words, would be pretty much irrelevant. (The same would apply to ANY tablet or slate - even those running full-tilt Windows 8 x64.)

However, just because I personally have no need or interest in touch doesn't mean I have to disparage those that do - to each his or her own.

[argonite]

plus, make the metro interface scroll up/down instead of left/right, or make it an option. i like using my mouse wheel!

You can, or at least should, be able to use the mouse wheel to scroll. If this isn't implemented in an app, contact the developer.

[Noir Angel]

Keyword here is 'default'. This is default behaviour, and you can change it. You haven't lost choice here.

That's not the point though, it's extra time wasted that I shouldn't have to waste. I shouldn't have to deal with my files opening with tablet oriented applications on a desktop PC, it wouldn't exactly kill them to give you an option in the OOBE to associate by default with the desktop apps or metro apps, but no it's just another part of their scheme to force people into using the start screen.

I'm not disagreeing with that. My issue with portable hardware to date is that it largely did NOT meet MY needs for portable hardware.

The current design of the Eee Transformer Prime COULD meet those needs - if it came with the right OS in firmware (and Android, even Ice Cream Sandwich, isn't it).

Notice that I didn't say that Android is a bad OS, and especially not Ice Cream Sandwich. Even Honeycomb (the default on the Transformer Prime TF-201) is not bad. The problem Android and iOS have is that neither is even WindowsRT (which has zero learning curve coming from Windows 8 - which I run on my desktop) - let alone Windows 8.

It's not touch support - my desktop doesn't have any. If I were to buy a Transformer Prime/RT, it would be purchased with the optional keyboard/dock - not due to the improved time between charges - which would certainly be a consideration - but because it includes a *keyboard*. Touch, in other words, would be pretty much irrelevant. (The same would apply to ANY tablet or slate - even those running full-tilt Windows 8 x64.)

However, just because I personally have no need or interest in touch doesn't mean I have to disparage those that do - to each his or her own.

I am not disparaging those that like touch devices, I'm just saying that it's not necessary to bastardise your product range to accommodate them. People figure out how to use iOS and Android who have been desktop users for years, I'm sure they could figure out RT based tablets without having Windows setup the same way.

[dangel]

Not really, all of the solutions to bypass the start screen are very hackish in nature. I'd be happier if there were official ways to do it. And to the best of my knowledge, so far, nobody has figured out how to re-enable glass on the post-RP builds yet.

Hackish? Oh come on, that's a little unreasonable. At most they're workarounds using the tools built into Windows by MS themselves - you're not using a hex editor or patching system DLLs. So your expectation is that MS should provide the options you specifically want, in the way you want them ;)

If you install an app it's perfectly capable of taking over the file association just like in 7 and until you do there's no choice to be had - they're just giving you a built in app which you don't *have* to use.

[Noir Angel]

Hackish? Oh come on, that's a little unreasonable. At most they're workarounds using the tools built into Windows by MS themselves - you're not using a hex editor or patching system DLLs. So your expectation is that MS should provide the options you specifically want, in the way you want them ;)

It's not unreasonable, hackish is a perfect term to describe them. I want a computer to work the way I want rather than the way a company dictates that it should? so friggin sue me. I'm not exactly asking them to crap bricks I'm just asking for those of us that prefer the way Windows worked before to be able to have something analogous to that experience in Windows 8.

[dangel]

It's not unreasonable, hackish is a perfect term to describe them. I want a computer to work the way I want rather than the way a company dictates that it should? so friggin sue me. I'm not exactly asking them to crap bricks I'm just asking for those of us that prefer the way Windows worked before to be able to have something analogous to that experience in Windows 8.

So you can do it, but you don't want to. Seems reasonable ;)

[argonite]

That's not the point though, it's extra time wasted that I shouldn't have to waste. I shouldn't have to deal with my files opening with tablet oriented applications on a desktop PC, it wouldn't exactly kill them to give you an option in the OOBE to associate by default with the desktop apps or metro apps, but no it's just another part of their scheme to force people into using the start screen.

You keep arguing how you're being 'forced'. I told you that you still have a choice and you then said that wasn't the point. What point are you trying to make exactly? Are you sure choice is the right word here for your preferences?

[Noir Angel]

So you can do it, but you don't want to. Seems reasonable ;)

No, you cannot do it. If you knew the slightest thing about those bypass methods, they don't restore the old start menu or get rid of the new one, they just use an API function to get the start menu to minimise and show explorer. It's not the same thing as restoring the old behaviour.

You keep arguing how you're being 'forced'. I told you that you still have a choice and you then said that wasn't the point. What point are you trying to make exactly? Is it really about choice?

All part of the same package. It's about choice, and about wasting time that you shouldn't have to waste to make a desktop product function like a desktop product.

[NEVER85]

Not for me :laugh:

Of course not. You live in the stone ages with Windows XP.

[seebaran]

I explored my musings on this very topic on my latest Technorati post. It basically says Windows 7 just needed a spit shine to not alienate people who will scream agony once forced to upgrade. Check it out:

Metro vs. Retro: Did the Emperor Really Need New Clothes?

Was anything actually ?wrong? with Microsoft?s pre-Metro design? Technorati's Stephen Victor searches for answers.