Just how many people hate Windows 8?

[Noir Angel]

Significantly higher amount of 1 star votes, lower amounts of 4 and 5 star votes. The reaction on Amazon seems to verify the assertion that a lot of people think Windows 8 is a pile of crap.

It's still a change and your resistance to it, even you admitted it, you didn't allow yourself to like it

So what? Does the fact that something's changed automatically make it an improvement? I for one am happy to adapt to changes that I see as being worthwhile. I loved Glass when it was introduced in Vista, I loved the superbar when it was introduced in Windows 7. I don't like the start screen because it doesn't fit my needs and annoys the crap about me.

Who the hell are you to say that other people's computing concerns are irrelevant because you don't agree with them?

[Dot Matrix]

:laugh: Wut?

None of that makes any sense at all.

How can your finger be quicker at touching a screen, than pressing a mouse button ?

Touch requires you to move your entire arm and extend a finger to touch the screen

Mouse requires you to move your wrist a few mm and your finger even less to click

Even a cheap mouse is infinitely more accurate than a finger, unless you are a stick insect with a robotic arm controlled by a NASA scientist

I can move my hand faster than I can drag my mouse from one part of the screen to an other. Detractors are always complaining of having to move their mouse large distances.

Regardless, my hands are always moving, and reaching during the course of a computing session. I've seen other people who move around more than I do. They reach for books, drinks, etc. So, adding touch isn't changing anything.

[Rigby]

I can move my hand faster than I can drag my mouse from one part of the screen to an other. Detractors are always complaining of having to move their mouse large distances.

They must have a terrible mouse then. I barely have to move my wrist to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other. In any case saying you can move your hand faster than you can move your mouse... there's a flaw in logic somewhere in there. :laugh:

[jakem1]

Ed's 'survey' is questionable at best as a litmus for customer response, though the trend is still visible. It isn't about the 5 star reviews, but the proportion of 1 star reviews. Win8 is polarizing, his data confirms it.

I disagree. His reasoning is similar to the way that most people consider Amazon reviews. 4 and 5 stars is positive, 2 and 3 is meh and 1 star is negative. Even if you say that 1 and 2 star reviews are negative the majority still prefer Windows 8. When compared to Windows 7 (which is universally considered to have been a success) it's clear that Windows 8 isn't doing that badly and is only slightly more polarising than its predecessor.

With all the pointless moaning that has accompanied Windows 8 (yes, although some complaints are relevant, but most of the moaning is pointless and baseless - see this thread for plenty of examples) it's not surprising that it attracts a slightly higher number of complaints than Windows 7.

[threetonesun]

They must have a terrible mouse then. I barely have to move my wrist to move the cursor from one side of the screen to the other. In any case saying you can move your hand faster than you can move your mouse... there's a flaw in logic somewhere in there. :laugh:

I don't see how you could move your mouse and click faster than you could move your finger and touch.

Let me put it a different way, if you had to use an on screen keyboard, would you prefer to touch the keys, or press them individually with a mouse?

[+Warwagon MVC]

Let me put it a different way, if you had to use an on screen keyboard, would you prefer to touch the keys, or press them individually with a mouse?

Not even the same thing. I want to click icons not click keys on an onscreen keyboard.

[MorganX]

but most of the moaning is pointless and baseless - see this thread for plenty of examples) it's not surprising that it attracts a slightly higher number of complaints than Windows 7.

Just so I know where you're coming from, can you copy and post two Pointless and baseless cases of "moaning?"

[Dashel]

I disagree. His reasoning is similar to the way that most people consider Amazon reviews. 4 and 5 stars is positive, 2 and 3 is meh and 1 star is negative. Even if you say that 1 and 2 star reviews are negative the majority still prefer Windows 8. When compared to Windows 7 (which is universally considered to have been a success) it's clear that Windows 8 isn't doing that badly and is only slightly more polarising than its predecessor.

The moaning has hardly been pointless or irrelevant, while the defense of said items almost always is. I understand the breakdown, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Dislike values are always more important since most reviewers are statistically positive. The point still being that there is a polarity to Win8, shown in the data, that is certainly not the moanings of, how did someone say it, 'antiquated IT types that shouldn't have a say anyway'?

I like Win8, but Ed's data still shows its liked less than 7 and disliked the most after Vista.

I don't see how you could move your mouse and click faster than you could move your finger and touch.

Let me put it a different way, if you had to use an on screen keyboard, would you prefer to touch the keys, or press them individually with a mouse?

The problem with the keyboard example is you can use multiple fingers while on a mouse you are limited to one. I can easily mouse faster than I can peck. On the flipside, are you saying you can move your arm in an arc from the upper right to the lower left of a 22" display faster than a mouse accelerated cursor? A mouse moves a couple inches, your hand has to move relative feet.

I don't think anyone argues that the 'lack' of relative travel distance isn't a plus of touch compared to the mouse. Hence the criticism that mouse travel is unnaturally long to accommodate touch.

[Rigby]

I don't see how you could move your mouse and click faster than you could move your finger and touch.

I'm not sure if you guys are using your mouse in some bizarre way or what (maybe you're using your foot or moving it with your forehead) but personally I move my mouse with my hand and click the buttons with my finger. So saying you can move your hand faster than you can move your mouse just doesn't make sense.

[The Evil Overlord]

Put me down as a hater if you like, though hate is a strong word, I don't hate it, I just didn't like it because I had a lot of trouble getting mine to work as intended (wifi, drivers etc...)

[MorganX]

Not even the same thing. I want to click icons not click keys on an onscreen keyboard.

The talk about clicking has been funny, but it's more about selecting, dragging, all work session long. Just clicking in a precise point in a paragraph to insert text, double or triple-clicking a word, sentence, or paragraph. Selecting connectors in Visio. There's a reason these type of apps are not available yet on Modern UI and most likely will only be available in junior applet versions.

Clicking with the finger is quicker when you're talking about a screen of large block grids and everything is on said screen. Hey, that sounds an awful lot like a tablet.

[trag3dy]

I can move my hand faster than I can drag my mouse from one part of the screen to an other. Detractors are always complaining of having to move their mouse large distances.

Regardless, my hands are always moving, and reaching during the course of a computing session. I've seen other people who move around more than I do. They reach for books, drinks, etc. So, adding touch isn't changing anything.

Pardon me for saying this but you're full of ****. I have to move my hand less than an inch to get my mouse cursor from one side of the screen to the other. That requires far less effort than using a touch screen.

Your examples don't even make sense.

[Noir Angel]

Hate isn't an accurate term for me either. I don't hate 8 in fact if it weren't for the b0rk of my USB devices I would probably be using it now (with StartIsBack), I just feel as if Microsoft have made some disappointing design decisions.

[threetonesun]

I'm not sure if you people are using your mouse in some bizarre way or what (maybe you're using your foot) but personally I move my mouse with my hand and click the buttons with my finger. So saying you can move your hand faster than you can move your mouse just doesn't make sense.

Break out an onscreen keyboard on a touch screen, and even just using your index finger, try using your finger then using your mouse and see which is faster.

Obviously mice have an advantage (accuracy), but assuming accuracy isn't needed, I'd take my finger and arm over a mouse any day, and I'm sure most UI designers would agree. If you look around at computers as a whole (not just PCs just at workstations), the majority are going to use touch screens over mouse inputs.

The talk about clicking has been funny, but it's more about selecting, dragging, all work session long. Just clicking in a precise point in a paragraph to insert text, double or triple-clicking a work, sentence, or paragraph. Selecting connectors in Visio. There's a reason these type of apps are not available yet on Modern UI and most likely will only be available in junior applet versions.

Clicking with the finger is quicker when you're talking about a screen of large block grids and everything is on said screen. Hey, that sounds an awful lot like a tablet.

A touch screen visio would be amazing.

Text manipulation on anything is pretty miserable, I think that's a given. The point (or finger) is that if you want to design a touch UI, you can.

[Rigby]

Break out an onscreen keyboard on a touch screen, and even just using your index finger, try using your finger then using your mouse and see which is faster.

Obviously mice have an advantage (accuracy), but assuming accuracy isn't needed, I'd take my finger and arm over a mouse any day, and I'm sure most UI designers would agree. If you look around at computers as a whole (not just PCs just at workstations), the majority are going to use touch screens over mouse inputs.

I don't see how using an onscreen keyboard with a mouse would be any slower than moving your hand to the screen and pecking around it with your finger. In fact I believe I would be faster and more accurate with the mouse. (I also have no idea why you would be using an onscreen keyboard on a desktop either since a real keyboard is far faster but that's beside the point). A mouse is more precise and requires much less movement so I just don't understand how moving your whole arm around a screen is supposed to be faster.

[Noir Angel]

Hah, seriously?

The idea of typing out an essay, or having to manipulate a computer display by hand on touch is abhorrent to me. You expend a significant amount more energy to achieve the same amount of work.

[jakem1]

Just so I know where you're coming from, can you copy and post two Pointless and baseless cases of "moaning?"

This whole discussion about touch and modern apps on a desktop PC is pointless and a distraction. Windows 8 doesn't force you to use either and works perfectly well on the desktop with traditional desktop apps, a mouse and a keyboard.

The moaning has hardly been pointless or irrelevant, while the defense of said items almost always is. I understand the breakdown, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Dislike values are always more important since most reviewers are statistically positive. The point still being that there is a polarity to Win8, shown in the data, that is certainly not the moanings of, how did someone say it, 'antiquated IT types that shouldn't have a say anyway'?

I like Win8, but Ed's data still shows its liked less than 7 and disliked the most after Vista.

And yet the data (which is Amazon's, not Ed's) clearly demonstrates that the majority are happy with Windows 8. It's clear though that you aren't interested in facts where they disprove your preconceived ideas.

[Noir Angel]

The data shows 12% more 1 star votes and less 4 and 5 star votes... If you think that shows positivity I'd say you're twisting the data to suit an agenda :/

[threetonesun]

Hah, seriously?

The idea of typing out an essay, or having to manipulate a computer display by hand on touch is abhorrent to me. You expend a significant amount more energy to achieve the same amount of work.

You're obviously going to type on a keyboard, which is why the majority of tablets include some way of attaching one. My point of an onscreen keyboard was that for repeated movements which do not require precision, it's easier to just use your finger. Think, an ATM, or any modern cash register if it makes more sense.

I don't see why people have such a hard time believing this. A track pad is essentially using your finger on an approximated screen, and we've had those for years now.

[margrave]

This whole discussion about touch and modern apps on a desktop PC is pointless and a distraction. Windows 8 doesn't force you to use either and works perfectly well on the desktop with traditional desktop apps, a mouse and a keyboard.

So I see no reason to spend the money for it then. My current setup works fine with no issues. I'll just keep my money. I have no interest in touchscreen on a desktop unit. There is no driving 'feature' that would interest me.

[ahhell]

The data shows 12% more 1 star votes and less 4 and 5 star votes... If you think that shows positivity I'd say you're twisting the data to suit an agenda :/

That's the whole point of stats. It can be twisted to say whatever you want....all you do is change the question.

:rolleyes:

[Dashel]

You're obviously going to type on a keyboard, which is why the majority of tablets include some way of attaching one. My point of an onscreen keyboard was that for repeated movements which do not require precision, it's easier to just use your finger. Think, an ATM, or any modern cash register if it makes more sense.

I don't see why people have such a hard time believing this. A track pad is essentially using your finger on an approximated screen, and we've had those for years now.

The touchpad most certainly is not. Its a mouse, it moves a cursor. If you click the upper left, your cursor doesn't jump there. It only blurs the line because of multiple input registers (gestures, edge, etc) which is done primarily in the software.

No one is denying the utility for quick, successive, low-accuracy events or how great those can be with touch integrated into the input mix. Speed is relative to the app space, and until someone has a shiny, golden example of tablet apps that can compete with Desktop ones, we are at an impass. Mac/Google types love not having to compete on complexity and Windows types bemoan it.

[neo1911]

@ Dot Matrix.

Loved this thread, everyone's replies and especially yours.

But please upgrade your Dot Matrix printer. It may not have a driver available for W8.

I don't hate W8. I purchased 3 licenses when they were available for ???? each.

It just gets on my nerves from time to time. There are disappointments like the App Store lag and laughable quality of music, mail and video apps. But once on desktop, everything feels great again.

I can't manage wireless and wired networks. Such a shame. Then there is an endless list of things removed from the OS which I find ridiculous!

[MorganX]

A touch screen visio would be amazing.

Text manipulation on anything is pretty miserable, I think that's a given. The point (or finger) is that if you want to design a touch UI, you can.

I agree, a touch VISIO would be amazing if the UI was done well. Complex detailed VISIO's with legends and possibly data connections, no. But a basic Visio for Surface RT or even Pro. nice.

I really have no problems with text manipulation with a key/mouse. Text manipulation on any touch UI it is pretty miserable, no matter the phone or tablet.

I also agree with enough work and thought, you can create a touch UI to make most things usable. I don't think that's even debatable. The question is, can you make it more usable on a desktop, than a keyboard and mouse. And for repetitive work, that's a whole other issue.

There are many specific cases where touch is a great compliment, such as data entry, especially if much of the form is a pick list. You know, to be honest, I'm not sure Microsoft has any intention of replacing the desktop, they are trying to leverage it and they have quirked a lot of people. WMP is still in Windows 8 Desktop because they aren't about to invest the $$$ in developing a full featured media app for Modern UI. Probably for the same reasons no one else is investing in any major Modern UI apps right now. We can only speculate as to what those reasons are.

[jakem1]

So I see no reason to spend the money for it then. My current setup works fine with no issues. I'll just keep my money. I have no interest in touchscreen on a desktop unit. There is no driving 'feature' that would interest me.

I'm not sure which bit of "Windows 8 doesn't require touch or a touchscreen" you don't get but if you don't think that you need Windows 8 then that's fine. Nobody's forcing you to upgrade.