Just how many people hate Windows 8?

[MorganX]

@ Dot Matrix.

Loved this thread, everyone's replies and especially yours.

But please upgrade your Dot Matrix printer. It may not have a driver available for W8.

I don't hate W8. I purchased 3 licenses when they were available for ???? each.

It just gets on my nerves from time to time. There are disappointments like the App Store lag and laughable quality of music, mail and video apps. But once on desktop, everything feels great again.

I can't manage wireless and wired networks. Such a shame. Then there is an endless list of things removed from the OS which I find ridiculous!

I mirror your complete post. Down to the number of licenses purchased. I have a feeling many who do use W8 feel the same way. It definitely has it's highs, and lows.

[Digit12345]

You're obviously going to type on a keyboard, which is why the majority of tablets include some way of attaching one. My point of an onscreen keyboard was that for repeated movements which do not require precision, it's easier to just use your finger. Think, an ATM, or any modern cash register if it makes more sense.

I don't see why people have such a hard time believing this. A track pad is essentially using your finger on an approximated screen, and we've had those for years now.

The larger the screen, the greater the benefit of the mouse. Your onscreen keyboard pecking example does not take into consideration that over a sustained period of time, the mouse wins out when it comes to endurance. If you have a small screen with a simplified ui, it makes sense to use touch because a cursor adds unnecessary complexity for little to no benefit. In a production environment where you need to move across the screen often, dragging your arm around quickly becomes a chore.

[Dashel]

I agree, a touch VISIO would be amazing if the UI was done well. Complex detailed VISIO's with legends and possibly data connections, no. But a basic Visio for Surface RT or even Pro.

I do wish Gliffy would make a Metro app. It would be perfect in that use for simple layouts etc. It would be much more fun to drag and drop then arrange items on the page with touch on simpler layouts. (The Barbie app is actually a great template for this type of flow)

[Motoko.]

We need a poll.

[MorganX]

This whole discussion about touch and modern apps on a desktop PC is pointless and a distraction. Windows 8 doesn't force you to use either and works perfectly well on the desktop with traditional desktop apps, a mouse and a keyboard.

I do understand where you're coming from now. Many do ignore it, I generally do, with the help of Start8. Many feel they should have to work to ignore so much of the next iteration of Windows, while others point out no matter what you do you truly can't escape it. Yet others like the idea of the Modern UI, even on the desktop, and are unsatisfied with Microsoft's execution. I suppose paying for it gives people the right to moan about it, especially if they perceive some functionality and efficiency has taken a step backwards. What you call moaning, I call constructive criticism and or debate. :)

[Noir Angel]

You're obviously going to type on a keyboard, which is why the majority of tablets include some way of attaching one. My point of an onscreen keyboard was that for repeated movements which do not require precision, it's easier to just use your finger. Think, an ATM, or any modern cash register if it makes more sense.

I don't see why people have such a hard time believing this. A track pad is essentially using your finger on an approximated screen, and we've had those for years now.

I completely disagree. Scrolling a webpage with a mouse requires a simple flick of my finger. Scrolling with my hand requires me lifting my hand up to the screen, and moving it all the way from the top of the screen to the bottom.

[threetonesun]

The larger the screen, the greater the benefit of the mouse. Your onscreen keyboard pecking example does not take into consideration that over a sustained period of time, the mouse wins out when it comes to endurance. If you have a small screen with a simplified ui, it makes sense to use touch because a cursor adds unnecessary complexity for little to no benefit. In a production environment where you need to move across the screen often, dragging your arm around quickly becomes a chore.

Which is where something like Kinect eventually comes in. There are two other disadvantages to using your finger, one being it's messy, the other being that it blocks your view. But if you could sit down and use your finger as a pointer in front of you, and have gesture support, you'd have the best of all worlds.

I completely disagree. Scrolling a webpage with a mouse requires a simple flick of my finger. Scrolling with my hand requires me lifting my hand up to the screen, and moving it all the way from the top of the screen to the bottom.

On what? On my phone I just flick the screen and it scrolls up and down.

[ahhell]

We need a poll.

Why? There's been numerous other ones.

[Noir Angel]

On what? On my phone I just flick the screen and it scrolls up and down.

Your phone isn't 21.5 inches, my computer screen is.

[threetonesun]

Your phone isn't 21.5 inches, my computer screen is.

Either way, with accelerated scrolling it's a non-issue.

[Skin]

Change is not the issue, pointless retarded changes that make things take longer / make things awkward, is the issue

Can you offer some in depth examples?

[Noir Angel]

Either way, with accelerated scrolling it's a non-issue.

Of course it is an issue. Accelerated scrolling doesn't change the fact that lifting and moving your arm costs a lot more energy than flicking a mouse wheel.

[DeadEndAccount]

I'm a 'returning Mac user' (a Mac user who went to Windows and then came back to Mac) so my position regarding Windows 8 has little to do with Windows 8 per se and more to do with Windows as a platform and my dissatisfaction with how things are done on Windows. With that being said I do think that the hyperbole of hatred directed at Windows 8 is unwarranted - yes Windows 8 does have issues but I don't think it is as horrible as some here try to make out. My experience when using it was the disjointed nature between the desktop and metro but more importantly is the lack of a road map particularly for the technophile community who desires some sort of guidance about the future and not just broad words of promises.

As for the cries about inconsistency, I always found that funny - 30 years of Windows inconsistency and people are only just latching onto the fact that Windows is notoriously inconsistent? a large selection of software and an even larger number of hardware supported? sure, but consistent? nope.

[jakem1]

I do understand where you're coming from now. Many do ignore it, I generally do, with the help of Start8. Many feel they should have to work to ignore so much of the next iteration of Windows, while others point out no matter what you do you truly can't escape it. Yet others like the idea of the Modern UI, even on the desktop, and are unsatisfied with Microsoft's execution. I suppose paying for it gives people the right to moan about it, especially if they perceive some functionality and efficiency has taken a step backwards. What you call moaning, I call constructive criticism and or debate. :)

No, there's a difference between constructive criticism and what we get here on Neowin. I'm happy to discuss the good and bad points of Windows 8 in a constructive manner but I can't think of a single thread where that has actually happened. Just like this thread, the discussion instantly degenerates into moaning about perceived problems that are based on opinions presented as facts. Fake complaints such as the one about Windows 8 not working with a keyboard and mouse are discussed interminably alongside boring arguments about how hard it is to click on a tile. This site has just become an echo chamber for the haters.

This thread is about the fact that Windows 8 has more positive reviews than negative on Amazon and how that compares to other versions of Windows. Unfortunately that contradicts the arguments (and in some cases the agendas) of a number of people here and as a result they choose to discuss imaginary complaints instead. This thread isn't about constructive criticism, it's about drowning out dissenting opinion.

[f0rk_b0mb]

I tried it during the betas and it was a love/hate relationship. I like the improvements made to explorer, boot times, etc. but some of the changes are awkward, and stupid. From what I've seen in Windows Blue, I kinda like it. I hope they continue to improve and add features to metro. Until then, I'm useing Windows 7. :)

[Detection]

Can you offer some in depth examples?

No.

[chrisj1968]

point being this whole touchscreen stuff is a fad technology. people who use the touchscreen interface are feeling as if they are hip and in when in fact, they are just emulating ipad users. lol... this whole argument is insane.

Why can't people just be themselves? the mouse isn't going anywhere and MS will feel the pain from this windows. They have lost their way, left an audience behind, tried to FORCE people as to what they want(yeah right), they didn't pinpoint the market as a whole but a "niche" group of trendy style people, hooked on trying to emulate ipad users at a lesser price.

touchscreen tech has it's place in some fields.. but you can't just say you'll throw it all out there and everyone needs it or will embrace it.

[Detection]

I can move my hand faster than I can drag my mouse from one part of the screen to an other. Detractors are always complaining of having to move their mouse large distances.

Regardless, my hands are always moving, and reaching during the course of a computing session. I've seen other people who move around more than I do. They reach for books, drinks, etc. So, adding touch isn't changing anything.

Really? Do you have your mouse set to the slowest setting or something?

I can move my mouse from bottom right to top left of a 1080p LCD in a ms, much much faster than I can my whole arm and hand

[threetonesun]

I'm a 'returning Mac user' (a Mac user who went to Windows and then came back to Mac) so my position regarding Windows 8 has little to do with Windows 8 per se and more to do with Windows as a platform and my dissatisfaction with how things are done on Windows. With that being said I do think that the hyperbole of hatred directed at Windows 8 is unwarranted - yes Windows 8 does have issues but I don't think it is as horrible as some here try to make out. My experience when using it was the disjointed nature between the desktop and metro but more importantly is the lack of a road map particularly for the technophile community who desires some sort of guidance about the future and not just broad words of promises.

As for the cries about inconsistency, I always found that funny - 30 years of Windows inconsistency and people are only just latching onto the fact that Windows is notoriously inconsistent? a large selection of software and an even larger number of hardware supported? sure, but consistent? nope.

You have to consider this, is the Desktop + Metro more or less disjointed than OSX + iOS?

I think the OSX to Windows 8 comparison is interesting, as I use both, and from a high level perspective, the desktops are pretty similar these days. What isn't similar is their mobile platform, and I have always said that by starting now, Windows will have an advantage over OSX by the time Windows 9 / OS 11 comes out. Consider that Ubuntu is also planning on going to the desktop / tablet / phone interface all in one, which will really leave iOS as the odd man out.

point being this whole touchscreen stuff is a fad technology.

It's true, ten years from now we'll just be using things like Kinect, or retina scanners. In the mean time, touch screens are a pretty good compromise.

[MorganX]

No, there's a difference between constructive criticism and what we get here on Neowin. I'm happy to discuss the good and bad points of Windows 8 in a constructive manner but I can't think of a single thread where that has actually happened. Just like this thread, the discussion instantly degenerates into moaning about perceived problems that are based on opinions presented as facts. Fake complaints such as the one about Windows 8 not working with a keyboard and mouse are discussed interminably alongside boring arguments about how hard it is to click on a tile. This site has just become an echo chamber for the haters.

This thread is about the fact that Windows 8 has more positive reviews than negative on Amazon and how that compares to other versions of Windows. Unfortunately that contradicts the arguments (and in some cases the agendas) of a number of people here and as a result they choose to discuss imaginary complaints instead. This thread isn't about constructive criticism, it's about drowning out dissenting opinion.

I don't think many stick to touch v. mouse as a reason, or main reason they don't use Windows 8. It is an issue of debate and opinion and pops up in any Windows 8 thread. That fact supports how many of the changes have divided the Windows base of experienced users. It just comes up, and I actually enjoy both sides, learn a little from each. Every now and then I get swayed. Without that discussion, I hadn't even though about how nice a basic Modern UI Visio would be.

Technically, yes, the thread is about the Amazon reviews. But that could have ended with, yeah, so Amazon reviews don't mean much, lackluster sales mean more. People have legitimate issues with it, and they come out in these debates. And people have just as many reasons they like it, those come out also. I learned about Windows 8's built-in screenshot ability Win+PrtScr from one of these debates. Just take it all with a grain of salt and as online style of constructive criticism. Most of it is, as most indicate what they would like to see, while others recommend solutions.

And, Dot has been so over the top at time, any Windows 8 thread he starts will probably end up as a pro/con. Sometimes unwarranted, but nonetheless entertaining, sometimes the result of a clearly over-the-top statement by Dot, lol.

[chrisj1968]

All Windows 8 and Ipads are, are attempts to make the UI interfaces like you see in minority report become reality.

techno geeks.. ooo-ooo that would be soooo cool to have, I wanna be like Tom Cruise in minority report. I love using a mouse. having my storage local for my data with me in my home.

Fads and trends change all the time.

[threetonesun]

Uh, yes, if I could get a friggin' hologram display I'd take it right now. :laugh:

I personally hope that by the time I die they have scalable hologram displays, because that would make watching live sports completely incredibly awesome. If you want to dream about a bigger screen with a silly little mouse hooked up to it, keep dreaming.

[MorganX]

>>my dissatisfaction with how things are done on Windows. With that being said I do think that the hyperbole of hatred directed at Windows 8 is unwarranted - yes Windows 8 does have issues but I don't think it is as horrible as some here try to make out. My experience when using it was the disjointed nature between the desktop and metro but more importantly is the lack of a road map particularly for the technophile community who desires some sort of guidance about the future and not just broad words of promises.<<

Hate is too strong a word. Extremists on both sides use it, but generally, folks don't "hate," they just don't like it and won't use it, right now. Having said that, you contradict yourself. You say it's unwarranted, then express your own dissatisfaction which mirrors a great many Windows 8 detractors: "My experience when using it was the disjointed nature between the desktop and metro ..." That is one of the top two complaints I've seen.

>>30 years of Windows inconsistency and people are only just latching onto the fact that Windows is notoriously inconsistent? a large selection of software and an even larger number of hardware supported? sure, but consistent? nope.<<

hahaha. Couldn't resist could you? Win 8 vs. Win 7, Mac vs. PC, it's all the same. You know, if Mac was better than Win 7 you would have a whole lot of defectors right now. :p

[mrp04]

Really? Do you have your mouse set to the slowest setting or something?

I can move my mouse from bottom right to top left of a 1080p LCD in a ms, much much faster than I can my whole arm and hand

If mice can be moved across the screen in a millisecond, why do Windows 8 haters always go on about how they have to move their mice larger distances in 8?

I never got that argument. It takes basically no time and by using the whole screen to display apps vs the tiny menu in the corner you can have way more items displayed which are still just as easily clicked on (or more easily because they're HUGE).

[Detection]

If mice can be moved across the screen in a millisecond, why do Windows 8 haters always go on about how they have to move their mice larger distances in 8?

I never got that argument. It takes basically no time and by using the whole screen to display apps vs the tiny menu in the corner you can have way more items displayed which are still just as easily clicked on (or more easily because they're HUGE).

Why would you have to move your mouse further in 8 than in any other OS if they were all set to the same resolution ?