Just how many people hate Windows 8?

[Dot Matrix]

Touch is far from a fad. There are many benefits to having a touch UI. A more dynamic UX is one of them. I yearn for a more dynamic computing experience, and Metro is delivering just that. It's 2013, to suffer through a bland, static UX is insane, computers can do and offer so much more, but we'll never get there cling on to an old paradigm. It's not 1995 anymore, the computer has matured, and now it's time for the next level.

Many of you want to claim ergonomics, but grasping a mouse isn't as ergonomic as you may think either, nor is sitting down, and being sedentary but many here claim they do anyway. Touch offers a new way to interact with our data and our machines, ways the mouse will never offer.

[siah1214]

If mice can be moved across the screen in a millisecond, why do Windows 8 haters always go on about how they have to move their mice larger distances in 8?

I never got that argument. It takes basically no time and by using the whole screen to display apps vs the tiny menu in the corner you can have way more items displayed which are still just as easily clicked on (or more easily because they're HUGE).

Thank you so much for pointing out the hypocrisy here.

When talking about touch vs mouse: "I can move my mouse across the screen so much faster than my finger!"

When talking about hot corners and controls: "It takes way too long to move my mouse alllllllllll the wayyyy across my huuuuuuge screen! I grow grey hairs every time I invoke the charms bar!"

So which is it?

[Detection]

Mouse and Keyboard have been around for well over three decades, no matter how much you worship windows 8, they are going nowhere.

[MorganX]

It's true, ten years from now we'll just be using things like Kinect, or retina scanners. In the mean time, touch screens are a pretty good compromise.

Kinect for PC is interesting. On a desktop I think it would be better received than touch. Touch is great for the kitchen PC, basic tasks etc. No doubt. And Kinect, you'll always have to activate recognition or have really good AI to determine if you're picking your nose, swatting a fly, or trying to move a window (of course, in Modern UI MDI isn't much of an issue). Like touch, for workstation computing, it will have its nice but never be the primary.

None of these things are new, just better. They have evolved to where they are best suited. k/m just doesn't work on phones and tablets even though trying a k/m UI on them anyway is what dug MS into the hole they're in. They do have a better shot with a touch UI being well implemented on a Desktop than they did putting a Desktop k/m UI on tablets and smartphones.

If mice can be moved across the screen in a millisecond, why do Windows 8 haters always go on about how they have to move their mice larger distances in 8?

Because making selections and clicking in a specific area you are working in is different than accessing the Charms and App bars which are always at the extreme left and right, and the context menus, instead of being in-place, or where you click, they are always at the extreme top or bottom of the screen, no matter what size your screen is.

If you could have those same bars expand beneath the mouse pointer where you clicked, it would completely eliminate this issue. (Much like the Office 2013 format bar when you right click text or in an Excel cell, optimal!)

Edit: This is not really an issue for me, I'm just sayin', I understand it.

Touch is far from a fad. There are many benefits to having a touch UI. A more dynamic UX is one of them. I yearn for a more dynamic computing experience, and Metro is delivering just that. It's 2013, to suffer through a bland, static UX is insane, computers can do and offer so much more, but we'll never get there cling on to an old paradigm. It's not 1995 anymore, the computer has matured, and now it's time for the next level.

Many of you want to claim ergonomics, but grasping a mouse isn't as ergonomic as you may think either, nor is sitting down, and being sedentary but many here claim they do anyway. Touch offers a new way to interact with our data and our machines, ways the mouse will never offer.

I'd like that too. But what I want to know, is what are you doing in Metro that's delivering that right now? There's nothing meaningful there really. There's One Note MX and a bunch of basically tablet apps. I mean I have a handful of applets I use and like but nothing close to delivering a more dynamic computing experience. I'd like that too, and at times I see the potential for it in the Modern UI.

TBH, if Zune or WMP were Modern UI with cloud sync (as long as they used in-app search) and synced Desktop, Surface RT, and WP8, then I'd say that right now.

[Dashel]

When talking about touch vs mouse: "I can move my mouse across the screen so much faster than my finger!"

When talking about hot corners and controls: "It takes way too long to move my mouse alllllllllll the wayyyy across my huuuuuuge screen! I grow grey hairs every time I invoke the charms bar!"

So which is it?

Its clearly both. If so many people here weren't being such obstinate n00bs they would understand that simple example by now. If you want a hint its about three pages back + MorganX's post above.

One regards the physical movement range of your hand and arm and its associated time and fatigue.

The other represents the distance the mouse cursor must travel to target.

Or MetroIE Morgan. ;) (Per the context menu)

[DeadEndAccount]

You have to consider this, is the Desktop + Metro more or less disjointed than OSX + iOS?

The comparison doesn't make any sense given that OS X and iOS are two separate and distinct products with any sort of cross pollination resulting in an idea being re-crafted for the desktop rather than just dropping it on the desktop. In the case of Windows 8 you're going to have to use Metro in some form or another whether you like it or not - it isn't like some sort of feature that you can avoid given that the start menu has been replaced, if you want to use the bundled applications then you're going to have to deal with the metro interface etc.

I think the OSX to Windows 8 comparison is interesting, as I use both, and from a high level perspective, the desktops are pretty similar these days. What isn't similar is their mobile platform, and I have always said that by starting now, Windows will have an advantage over OSX by the time Windows 9 / OS 11 comes out. Consider that Ubuntu is also planning on going to the desktop / tablet / phone interface all in one, which will really leave iOS as the odd man out.

And what is wrong with having two distinct user interfaces which target a specific way of doing something? the future of the desktop and tablet are pretty clear; touch pad gestures for the desktop and touch interface for the tablet.

[MorganX]

Or MetroIE Morgan. ;) (Per the context menu)

I actually didn't know that. Just tried it. Perplexing and inconsistent, lol. They should definitely do this in the mail app! I never use metroIE. I find it wastes too much space being landscape. I wouldn't mind if the web shifted to landscape orientation but that will not and is not happening and MS doesn't have than much influence on the web dev community at this time. I would definitely enjoy browsing with the Surface RT more if that were the case.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I yearn for a more dynamic computing experience, and Metro is delivering just that. It's 2013, to suffer through a bland, static UX is insane, computers can do and offer so much more, but we'll never get there cling on to an old paradigm.

Why not just get an iPad. It was released 3 years ago. In 2010. ...Oh, I forgot. "Static grid of icons", huh?

[.Neo]

I can move my hand faster than I can drag my mouse from one part of the screen to an other. Detractors are always complaining of having to move their mouse large distances.

What a load of nonsense. Never heard of increasing the tracking speed of your mouse and/or trackpad? On top of that I remember you claiming you knew basically nobody with a screen larger than around 20-inch, which seriously makes me wonder how large the distance can be to begin with.

[xWhiplash]

Touch is far from a fad. There are many benefits to having a touch UI. A more dynamic UX is one of them. I yearn for a more dynamic computing experience, and Metro is delivering just that. It's 2013, to suffer through a bland, static UX is insane, computers can do and offer so much more, but we'll never get there cling on to an old paradigm. It's not 1995 anymore, the computer has matured, and now it's time for the next level.

Many of you want to claim ergonomics, but grasping a mouse isn't as ergonomic as you may think either, nor is sitting down, and being sedentary but many here claim they do anyway. Touch offers a new way to interact with our data and our machines, ways the mouse will never offer.

Please explain to me how Windows 7 and below are so incredibly boring? Why do we absolutely need something different?

Windows 7 does what it should, let you run programs. It does not need to be anything else. The same with Windows 8. I do not need all of this live tiles crap on my desktop. Outlook 2010, Skype, and other programs give me notifications just fine.

What is so bad about a static UI? It does what we need it to. Allow us to be productive without getting in the way. Windows 8 fails at this.

[Skin]

Mouse and Keyboard have been around for well over three decades, no matter how much you worship windows 8, they are going nowhere.

this simply isn't true. They are already working on more vocal, hand/body gesture, and even eye based control devices. they are the future, and the keyboard and mouse are simply hold-over and 'safe' technologies that some technical and non-technical folks just can't seem to let go of that readily (a la start menu).. but they will have to one day.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

keyboard and mouse are simply hold-over and 'safe' technologies that some technical and non-technical folks just can't seem to let go of that readily (a la start menu).. but they will have to one day.

They really won't (you want to force them?). But they will probably want to, once there is a superior alternative for all use cases. That time is not now.

[MorganX]

this simply isn't true. They are already working on more vocal, hand/body gesture, and even eye based control devices. they are the future, and the keyboard and mouse are simply hold-over and 'safe' technologies that some technical and non-technical folks just can't seem to let go of that readily (a la start menu).. but they will have to one day.

While I agree all these things are being developed, they will be niche or specialized task specific, as they always have been. Particularly voice, hand body gesture, and eye control. Though I'm sure call of duty players are chomping at the bit for eye control. You think people at an office or a bank are going to be making hand/body gestures all day, or speaking confidential information and numbers.

Think someone is going to speak to create a complex spreadsheet, we have built-in voice rec now no one uses, and it's pretty good.

[Skin]

They really won't (you want to force them?). But they will probably want to, once there is a superior alternative for all use cases. That time is not now.

hmm I happen to disagree on that first part. Also, I never said to force them, only that it WILL go somewhere, and yes, probably without people really wanting it to do so.

I think that the time will come when it will be forced upon folks. heck, look at all the technology changes that have been forced on folks beta, 8 track, vhs, old computer screens, atari joysticks paddles, yadda yadda legacy hardware that is obsolete and while you can dig it up in your parents or your basement in a box, doesn't mean it is still viable or able to really be used with today's technology (simple analogy, but sticks based on showing hardware changes).

[Digit12345]

While I agree all these things are being developed, they will be niche or specialized task specific, as they always have been. Particularly voice, hand body gesture, and eye control. Though I'm sure call of duty players are chomping at the bit for eye control. You think people at an office or a bank are going to be making hand/body gestures all day, or speaking confidential information and numbers.

Think someone is going to speak to create a complex spreadsheet, we have built-in voice rec now no one uses, and it's pretty good.

Haha yeah, I'm not sure if we're going to get anywhere with voice recognition anytime soon. Instructing a person step by step to make that spreadsheet for you is already a pain...

[Skin]

While I agree all these things are being developed, they will be niche or specialized task specific, as they always have been. Particularly voice, hand body gesture, and eye control. Though I'm sure call of duty players are chomping at the bit for eye control. You think people at an office or a bank are going to be making hand/body gestures all day, or speaking confidential information and numbers.

Think someone is going to speak to create a complex spreadsheet, we have built-in voice rec now no one uses, and it's pretty good.

I think you missed the point... what if that eye or voice recognition would know it was you, or even not and you could enter your pin code and bank numbers via eye or hand control.... no one knows what you enter but you and the computer, and as technology accelerates, it would be faster than a 10key, keyboard, etc.

I don't think these things are niche at all, and if they can be tailored for specific things, the more the merrier. I for one would welcome a huge spreadsheet once technology allows me to sit there and look at the screen, or wage my finger around and have the computer build it faster than I can type.

Don't think in terms of limited software or lack of embrace by comfortable people now.. that's the issue even back to win8.

[Digit12345]

hmm I happen to disagree on that first part. Also, I never said to force them, only that it WILL go somewhere, and yes, probably without people really wanting it to do so.

I think that the time will come when it will be forced upon folks. heck, look at all the technology changes that have been forced on folks beta, 8 track, vhs, old computer screens, atari joysticks paddles, yadda yadda legacy hardware that is obsolete and while you can dig it up in your parents or your basement in a box, doesn't mean it is still viable or able to really be used with today's technology (simple analogy, but sticks based on showing hardware changes).

But the stuff we have now are quantitatively better in just about every relevant manner. You'd have a hard time convincing mouse and keyboard folks otherwise at this point in time.

[Dot Matrix]

What a load of nonsense. Never heard of increasing the tracking speed of your mouse and/or trackpad? On top of that I remember you claiming you knew basically nobody with a screen larger than around 20-inch, which seriously makes me wonder how large the distance can be to begin with.

there's only one issue with that, I know where my finger is at all times, my cursor gets lost quite often, especially when working with multiple monitors.

You have also answered a common detractor complaint against Windows 8 with the mouse. ;)

[MorganX]

hmm I happen to disagree on that first part. Also, I never said to force them, only that it WILL go somewhere, and yes, probably without people really wanting it to do so.

I think that the time will come when it will be forced upon folks. heck, look at all the technology changes that have been forced on folks beta, 8 track, vhs, old computer screens, atari joysticks paddles, yadda yadda legacy hardware that is obsolete and while you can dig it up in your parents or your basement in a box, doesn't mean it is still viable or able to really be used with today's technology (simple analogy, but sticks based on showing hardware changes).

one of the problem with your analogies, is that they were not forced, they were welcome as there was so much room for improvement in all those things. People do not see the improvement in Windows 8, and in fact, many see areas of regression. Something Windows has never done in the past.

Say cassettes provided marginally better sound than 8-tracks, but you had to put the cassette inside and 8-track shell, and a lot of the time it would jam. Lots of people would say, why bother, it doesn't actually sound "that" much better anyway.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

there's only one issue with that, I know where my finger is at all times, my cursor gets lost quite often, especially when working with multiple monitors.

You have also answered a common detractor complaint against Windows 8 with the mouse. ;)

man...you are reaching.

[MorganX]

>>I think you missed the point... what if that eye or voice recognition would know it was you, or even not and you could enter your pin code and bank numbers via eye or hand control.... no one knows what you enter but you and the computer, and as technology accelerates, it would be faster than a 10key, keyboard, etc.

I don't think these things are niche at all<<

I don't disagree with the examples you've given. But they are niche, they are not general computing input. Retinal scanning is already here, but there's the issue of privacy there. In America, it won't be forced on anyone en masse. Probably could go anywhere fingerprints can be forced, such as on some bank transactions.

>>I for one would welcome a huge spreadsheet once technology allows me to sit there and look at the screen, or wage my finger around and have the computer build it faster than I can type.<<

When you can look at the screen a build a huge spreadsheet, or even have AI build it for you, I'll be on board that right behind you. :)

[Detection]

this simply isn't true. They are already working on more vocal, hand/body gesture, and even eye based control devices. they are the future, and the keyboard and mouse are simply hold-over and 'safe' technologies that some technical and non-technical folks just can't seem to let go of that readily (a la start menu).. but they will have to one day.

Of course it's true, new technology such as touch does not = the end for keyboard and mouse

They are still the most efficient and comfortable way to control a PC, and will remain so for a long time to come, which is why they have barely changed since they were introduced all those years ago.

[Order_66]

This thread is about the fact that Windows 8 has more positive reviews than negative on Amazon and how that compares to other versions of Windows.

Wrong, this thread was deliberately created to stir trouble, nothing more.

[cropcircles]

I flattened my machine and used 8 as my only OS for weeks and weeks, maybe longer, and tried very very hard to understand and enjoy it, but in the end it was such a PITA to do the simplest of tasks that I got rid and reinstalled 7

When I did, my machine completely made sense again, things were in sensible places and my brain didn't hurt trying to remember to click here and move the mouse to this corner and wait for this to appear, etc etc

Change is not the issue, pointless retarded changes that make things take longer / make things awkward, is the issue

Excellent perspective and my thoughts totally. I did more then a test drive myself and used it off and on for several months but when I needed to get things done quickly without all the playing around and sightseeing I decided to use W7.

[astropheed Veteran]

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