George Zimmerman has been found not guilty!

[adrynalyne]

In every call that Zimmerman made to police the "suspect" was always black. Zimmerman never called the police on a white person. It's in the trial proceedings. I simply made a deduction based on an established pattern. 

 

And generalization is way Trayvon Martin is dead.

 

 

 

So if generalization is why Martin is dead, and you are generalizing...who are you going to off?

[trag3dy]

In every call that Zimmerman made to police the "suspect" was always black. Zimmerman never called the police on a white person. It's in the trial proceedings. I simply made a deduction based on an established pattern. 

 

And generalization is way Trayvon Martin is dead.

 

Gee golly with your expert eye witness testimony you'd think they would have nailed Zimmerman to the wall and put him on death row for sure. You seem to know exactly what his frame of mind was, what he was thinking, doing, and what his intent was.

[Scroogled]

I guess that if you want to kill somebody and get away with it, do it in Florida.

[AWilliams87]

From 1976 to 2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims. Of those, 262,621 were committed by other blacks. Being black, I think I have more to fear from the dude down the street, than from someone like Zimmerman.

[heatlesssun]

So if generalization is why Martin is dead, and you are generalizing...who are you going to off?

 

Understanding that I am black male, on the large side, and understanding that there are certain perceptions of being a black male, on the large side, is why I've lived to be 45. My parents had me late in life, they grew up in the South when there wasn't a whole of debate in the matter, "Colored Entrance" was their way of life until they were in their 40s. People routinely boast that they don't care about what other's think of them. I submit that having an understanding of how other perceive you and dealing with it appropriately can keep you breathing. 

 

If Trayvon Martin had understood that he was dealing with a guy with racial issues he may still be alive today. If a white guy is following me at my age I KNOW he probably has a problem with black people. So I say "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" even though I may want to rip the heart of the guy knowing full well he is a bigot. But that was before today. I used to think that you can appease these guys. Now I'm not so sure.

[trag3dy]

Understanding that I am black male, on the large side, and understanding that there are certain perceptions of being a black male, on the large side, is why I've lived to be 45. My parents had me late in life, they grew up in the South when there wasn't a whole of debate in the matter, "Colored Entrance" was their way of life until they were in their 40s. People routinely boast that they don't care about what other's think of them. I submit that having an understanding of how other perceive you and dealing with it appropriately can keep you breathing. 

 

If Trayvon Martin had understood that he was dealing with a guy with racial issues he may still be alive today. If a white guy is following me at my age I KNOW he probably has a problem with black people. So I say "Yes, sir" and "No, sir" even though I may want to rip the heart of the guy knowing full well he is a bigot. But that was before today. I used to think that you can appease these guys. Now I'm not so sure.

 

So in your view any and all white people who just happen to be going the same direction as you are not only a bigot but also a potential murderer?

 

Then again you have that mind reading talent so you know what everyone else is thinking and what their intent is.

[heatlesssun]

From 1976 to 2011, there were 279,384 black murder victims. Of those, 262,621 were committed by other blacks. Being black, I think I have more to fear from the dude down the street than someone like Zimmerman.

 

But on February 26, 2012 Trayvon Martin was being followed by a guy that wasn't black. Only when these kinds of cases occur does the issues of black on black crime seem to matter beyond the black community. Obviously black on black violence is a huge problem, for blacks. In this case the defense made an unarmed teenager that wasn't doing anything out to be a thug. It's hard to have it both ways.

 

Again, it only seems to reinforce my point, once your spotted as black, you're a threat. Even to blacks. There's no safe haven. 

[DocM]

I guess that if you want to kill somebody and get away with it, do it in Florida.

Most US states have very similar self-defense laws to Florida, including Stand Your Ground (which also exists in Federal law), the Castle Doctrine and a feature that provides self-defenders with civil immunity from lawsuits by the person they shoot, their estate or their families.

[heatlesssun]

So in your view any and all white people who just happen to be going the same direction as you are not only a bigot but also a potential murderer?

 

Then again you have that mind reading talent so you know what everyone else is thinking and what their intent is.

 

You do understand that the even Zimmerman's defense acknowledge that Zimmerman was following Marin and pointed out that following someone is not a crime. I'm 45 years old, I figure out if I'm being followed. It the a 17 year old old in this case had no problem in making that determination. 

[Wyn6]

I'm going to say this, "reasonable doubt" is and has always been the statute by which our criminal court verdicts are to be reached. And, the fact is that there was reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman murdered Martin. That being said, I'm fine with the jury's decision based on the available facts. However, I believe the prosecution perhaps made a mistake in their pursuit of 2nd degree murder and should have pursued manslaughter with a lesser charge of negligent homicide to be considered.

 

To that end, I believe the latter charge to be more akin to what Zimmerman did. Race aside, that evening/night Zimmerman believed he saw someone behaving suspiciously. He phoned 911 to report a suspicious person, gave out a description and the actions of said suspicious person. This is where things should have ended.

 

At that point and time, George Zimmerman should have awaited the police as no crime was being committed and no person was being harmed. Upon the arrival of the police, Zimmerman should have relayed any further information he had to aid THEM in investigating the suspicious person. The police would have thanked him for his vigilance as a member of the neighborhood watched and sent him on his way. They would have then canvased the neighborhood to try and determine the potential threat. However, he chose not to do this. He also chose to follow Martin through the neighborhood, ignoring the advice of the 911 dispatcher. This was a poor decision and negligent on Zimmerman's part. It wasn't just negligent because of what actually happened, but let's think about what could have happened.

 

What if Trayvon had a gun at that time? What if Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman? Sure, Trayvon would be on trial, but Zimmerman would be dead due to actions he most likely should not have taken. What I'm saying is this, I believe Zimmerman overstepped his bounds. I think he put himself in danger and endangered the life of Trayvon, which he took, and possibly the lives of others. His actions were reckless and showed no regard for anyone, not even himself.

 

He was clearly angry as per his 911 call. In speculating, the firearm emboldened him to do something he may not have otherwise done. But, most of all, he allowed his anger and emotion to override his better judgment. That to me is the very definition of negligent and reckless. In the end, someone is dead, and he has lived through a traumatic ordeal himself with who knows what's left to come.

[DocM]

The jury instructions clearly stated that you cannot convict someone of manslaughter, much less murder, based on negligence.

[trag3dy]

You do understand that the even Zimmerman's defense acknowledge that Zimmerman was following Marin and pointed out that following someone is not a crime. I'm 45 years old, I figure out if I'm being followed. It the a 17 year old old in this case had no problem in making that determination. 

 

Yeah, following some one isn't a crime? Still, I'm not sure how that means they're a bigot? Which are your words, not mine.

[heatlesssun]

Most US states have very similar self-defense laws to Florida, including Stand Your Ground (which also exists in Federal law), the Castle Doctrine and a feature that provides self-defenders with civil immunity from lawsuits by the person they shoot, their estate or their families.

 

And that's my point. Being a black person, if I am being followed I think that I have every reason to believe that I have grounds for self defense because of this case simply by being followed. I have to fear for my life at the very instant I know that I am being followed because I would have to assume that the person that is following me means no harm. I don't think that most gun owners I know would assume that, they certainly would be preparing for a conflict at that point by removing the safety. 

The jury instructions clearly stated that you can ot convict someone of manslaughter, much less murder, based on negligence.

 

Please understand that coming from a guy with 7 guns in his sig, this is EXTREMELY troubling. 

Yeah, following some one isn't a crime? Still, I'm not sure how that means they're a bigot? Which are your words, not mine.

 

Again, as soon as Zimmerman saw Martin he made the determination that these "###### always get away." Who exactly are these "######"? How do you know someone is an "######" that you've never met?

[trag3dy]

And that's my point. Being a black person, if I am being followed I think that I have every reason to believe that I have grounds for self defense because of this case simply by being followed. I have to fear for my life at the very instant I know that I am being followed because I would have to assume that the person that is following me means no harm. I don't think that most gun owners I know would assume that, they certainly would be preparing for a conflict at that point by removing the safety. 

 

Please understand that coming from a guy with 7 guns in his sig, this is EXTREMELY troubling. 

 

Again, as soon as Zimmerman saw Martin he made the determination that these "*******s always get away." Who exactly are these "*******s"? How do you know someone is an "*******" that you've never met?

 

We're talking about you here, not Zimmerman. You're the one saying that if a white person follows you they are a bigot. And not only that, but a potential murderer. You went to great length talking about how you feel unsafe because you're a black man and white people can kill you however they please and get away with it.

[AWilliams87]

But on February 26, 2012 Trayvon Martin was being followed by a guy that wasn't black. Only when these kinds of cases occur does the issues of black on black crime seem to matter beyond the black community. Obviously black on black violence is a huge problem, for blacks. In this case the defense made an unarmed teenager that wasn't doing anything out to be a thug. It's hard to have it both ways.

 

Again, it only seems to reinforce my point, once your spotted as black, you're a threat. Even to blacks. There's no safe haven. 

Well from his background, he is a thug; Though it may not have direct relevance in the case.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

If Zimmerman exploits this for monetary gain the Martin family can (I believe) sue for wrongful death.  Zimmerman will be in the poor house with the legal and attorney fees. Also he may still face federal charges for violating Martin's civil rights.  This is not over for Zimmerman.

 

And heatlesssun, I can understand you're strong feelings about this very tragic and unfortunate event, but the state's murder case is finished, no reason to continue rehashing things. 

[AWilliams87]

I'm going to say this, "reasonable doubt" is and has always been the statute by which our criminal court verdicts are to be reached. And, the fact is that there was reasonable doubt as to whether Zimmerman murdered Martin. That being said, I'm fine with the jury's decision based on the available facts. However, I believe the prosecution perhaps made a mistake in their pursuit of 2nd degree murder and should have pursued manslaughter with a lesser charge of negligent homicide to be considered.

 

To that end, I believe the latter charge to be more akin to what Zimmerman did. Race aside, that evening/night Zimmerman believed he saw someone behaving suspiciously. He phoned 911 to report a suspicious person, gave out a description and the actions of said suspicious person. This is where things should have ended.

 

At that point and time, George Zimmerman should have awaited the police as no crime was being committed and no person was being harmed. Upon the arrival of the police, Zimmerman should have relayed any further information he had to aid THEM in investigating the suspicious person. The police would have thanked him for his vigilance as a member of the neighborhood watched and sent him on his way. They would have then canvased the neighborhood to try and determine the potential threat. However, he chose not to do this. He also chose to follow Martin through the neighborhood, ignoring the advice of the 911 dispatcher. This was a poor decision and negligent on Zimmerman's part. It wasn't just negligent because of what actually happened, but let's think about what could have happened.

 

What if Trayvon had a gun at that time? What if Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman? Sure, Trayvon would be on trial, but Zimmerman would be dead due to actions he most likely should not have taken. What I'm saying is this, I believe Zimmerman overstepped his bounds. I think he put himself in danger and endangered the life of Trayvon, which he took, and possibly the lives of others. His actions were reckless and showed no regard for anyone, not even himself.

 

He was clearly angry as per his 911 call. In speculating, the firearm emboldened him to do something he may not have otherwise done. But, most of all, he allowed his anger and emotion to override his better judgment. That to me is the very definition of negligent and reckless. In the end, someone is dead, and he has lived through a traumatic ordeal himself with who knows what's left to come.

No it wasn't negligence bro. You apply negligence to the act of the crime, not what happened prior. He has no legal obligation to not follow Martin. At no point prior to the physical altercation was any crime committed by both parties.

[trag3dy]

If Zimmerman exploits this for monetary gain the Martin family can (I believe) sue for wrongful death.  Zimmerman will be in the poor house with the legal and attorney fees. Also he may still face federal charges for violating Martin's civil rights.  This is not over for Zimmerman.

 

And heatlesssun, I can understand you're strong feelings about this very tragic and unfortunate event, but the state's murder case is finished, no reason to continue to rehashing things. 

 

 

What civil rights did he violate?

[DocM]

And that's my point. Being a black person, if I am being followed I think that I have every reason to believe that I have grounds for self defense because of this case simply by being followed. I have to fear for my life at the very instant I know that I am being followed because I would have to assume that the person that is following me means no harm. I don't think that most gun owners I know would assume that, they certainly would be preparing for a conflict at that point by removing the safety.

Of course if Martin had gone straight back to his dads house by sidewalk without weaving between and behind houses '& buildings he might not have attracted anyones attention. That kind of behavior will, be it from cops, residents or whoever. Especially in areas where there have been break-ins or home invasions. Doesn't matter if they're white, black. hispanic or blue with yellow polka dots.

Please understand that coming from a guy with 7 guns in his sig, this is EXTREMELY troubling.

I didn't say it, I just reported what the judges jury instructions were, which are standard and published in a jurists handbook. Big difference.

[heatlesssun]

We're talking about you here, not Zimmerman. You're the one saying that if a white person follows you they are a bigot. And not only that, but a potential murderer. You went to great length talking about how you feel unsafe because you're a black man and white people can kill you however they please and get away with it.

 

Why would a white person be following me if I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business?

[seta-san]

Why did he follow the kid and why would a 17 year old attack someone holding a gun while they are on the way home? I am convinced that he wanted to shoot someone and a neighborhood watch is suppose to do just that...watch. I hope his life is miserable. 

he followed the kid because he believed  himself to be neighborhood watch.

 

Zimmerman had his gun in a holster

 

I bet it won't be five years before people forget about it.

[trag3dy]

Why would a white person be following me if I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business?

 

 

I don't know? You're the one that said those words, not me.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

What civil rights did he violate?

 

I don't know, that would be up to the DOJ and the FBI wouldn't it.

[DocM]

Why would a white person be following me if I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business?

How do you know they're following you? They could be going in the same direction but to a destination near yours. Of course if you're going the cross- country route through the sub, cutting behind houses & community buildings off the normal pathways you ARE going to draw attention and suspicion.

Hell, black folks here would be raising the alarm too given the problems in the Detroit area. There was a story on the news tonight about members of a black community going up to suspicious cars in their neighborhood and challenging their intentions.

It isn't race, it's behavior.

[logicwin]

plus it was middle of the night and pouring rain, and you are aware that zimmermans community had been hit by a series of break ins and theft by black people no? I would certainly say someone walking through the neighborhood like trayvon was doing while fitting the race of EVERY break in incident that had been happening that month would be suspicious