George Zimmerman has been found not guilty!

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Yes, its perfectly legal to verbally confront someone on the street. If they choose to violently attack you for doing so and threaten your life, you can shoot them in self defense. I really don't get why this is blowing people's minds so much.

'Merica

Where you can shoot someone dead just because you don't like what they are saying, and totally get off scott-free.

[logicwin]

'Merica

Where you can shoot someone dead just because you don't like what they are saying, and totally get off scott-free.

thats the exact opposite of what was just said

[+Raze Subscriber²]

'Merica

Where you can shoot someone dead just because you don't like what they are saying, and totally get off scott-free.

 

I don't think it means what you think it means.

[heatlesssun]

And heatlesssun, I can understand you're strong feelings about this very tragic and unfortunate event, but the state's murder case is finished, no reason to continue to rehashing things. 

 

I said from the beginning that i accepted the judgement, My problem with this case is would you please tell me the exact steps that as a large black man I must perform for an armed guy that looks white I must perform so that I do not die? Don't mash his head into the concrete I got, like that ever happened to the extent that Zimmerman said but I got that. Any other tips? That's problem with this case. Zimmerman got off because the state didn't meet the burden of proof, I accept that. But it certainly didn't answer my question. Zimmerman wasn't going to let another black guy commit a crime in his neighborhood. Good for him, we got that. And he was very successful in this case, Trayvon Martin, at least alive will never cause anyone any problems. Bravo for Zimmerman, he got a punk off the street.

 

My problem is when I'm the punk that wasn't doing anything to anyone that a wanna be Zimmerman wants to get of the streets.  See black person, fire. Ultimately that's what this verdict vindicates. 

[MDboyz]

Good, big grats to him.

 

However, next couple days people will use this as the reason to cause riot .... then steal and loot stuffs from businesses ...

[DocM]

>

My problem is when I'm the punk that wasn't doing anything to anyone that a wanna be Zimmerman wants to get of the streets. See black person, fire. Ultimately that's what this verdict vindicates.

No, it doesn't. It says if you're pinned, getting your head dribbled off the sidewalk and face busted up you can use whatever means are at your disposal to remove the threat. Relative colors are irrelevant - it's escalating the fight to a potentially lethal level (via closed head trauma) that matters.

[Tuishimi]

A 9mm or lighter powered round is by no means a one-shot killer unless you luck out and hit a vital spot dead center, like in this case the heart. This is tough in a fight because of adrenaline etc. reducing your accuracy and these rounds not having a significant hydrostatic shock effect to cause damage away from the narrow wound channel.

That's why cops & CPL holders are usually trained to fire 2-3 times (double-tap, triple-tap) so yes, Zimmerman exercised restraint. OTOH, those of us who carry a .357 SIG, FN 5.7mm, .40, .45 or 10mm can do with 1 shot - they're flat out devastating.

 

I was taught to empty my magazine during my CCW training.

[libertas83]

At that point and time, George Zimmerman should have awaited the police as no crime was being committed and no person was being harmed. Upon the arrival of the police, Zimmerman should have relayed any further information he had to aid THEM in investigating the suspicious person. The police would have thanked him for his vigilance as a member of the neighborhood watched and sent him on his way. They would have then canvased the neighborhood to try and determine the potential threat. However, he chose not to do this. He also chose to follow Martin through the neighborhood, ignoring the advice of the 911 dispatcher. This was a poor decision and negligent on Zimmerman's part. It wasn't just negligent because of what actually happened, but let's think about what could have happened.

 

What if Trayvon had a gun at that time? What if Trayvon shot and killed Zimmerman? Sure, Trayvon would be on trial, but Zimmerman would be dead due to actions he most likely should not have taken. What I'm saying is this, I believe Zimmerman overstepped his bounds. I think he put himself in danger and endangered the life of Trayvon, which he took, and possibly the lives of others. His actions were reckless and showed no regard for anyone, not even himself.

 

He was clearly angry as per his 911 call. In speculating, the firearm emboldened him to do something he may not have otherwise done. But, most of all, he allowed his anger and emotion to override his better judgment. That to me is the very definition of negligent and reckless. In the end, someone is dead, and he has lived through a traumatic ordeal himself with who knows what's left to come.

 

I agree with most of what you said including that ZImmerman put his own life at risk for legal and physically by following Travyon. However, I don't think the act of following is negligent. We rely too much on idea that police will stop crime, but they don't in most cases because they have to show up to the crime scene. As a people, we are responsible for protecting ourselves, our family, and our communities. You do bring up a good point though in that there was not enough evidence to justify Zimmerman getting out of his truck for it, but I do understand what he was trying to do and is something my Dad has done often when noticing people that may be shoplifting or about to shoplift.

 

And that's my point. Being a black person, if I am being followed I think that I have every reason to believe that I have grounds for self defense because of this case simply by being followed. I have to fear for my life at the very instant I know that I am being followed because I would have to assume that the person that is following me means no harm. I don't think that most gun owners I know would assume that, they certainly would be preparing for a conflict at that point by removing the safety. 

 

Please understand that coming from a guy with 7 guns in his sig, this is EXTREMELY troubling. 

 

Again, as soon as Zimmerman saw Martin he made the determination that these "*******s always get away." Who exactly are these "*******s"? How do you know someone is an "*******" that you've never met?

 

 

Definitely true about being followed but your actions, and kids need to be taught this, have consequences. I am white and I was followed by a black guy when leaving a bar. This was the same black guy that tried to come up to me when I was walking the street heading to a different bar. We kept walking, got into the car, and the guy was still coming up, until he saw that we locked the doors then he turned away. At 4:00am in the morning, you just don't trust someone coming up to you like that with no good reason. Travyon ran, Zimmerman followed a bit then stopped pretty quick. They somehow meet up again and that is the missing piece of evidence to really determine guilt. Evidence seems to indicate Travyon put himself in danger at that point by not calling police or going for cover.

 

 

Why would a white person be following me if I wasn't doing anything but minding my own business?

 

If you were high and walking with the paranoid looking around to see if anyone is around, someone who is canvasing the area for people doing bad things might be checking you out to see what you do.

[heatlesssun]

No, it doesn't. It says if you're pinned, getting your head dribbled off the sidewalk and face busted up you can use whatever means are at your disposal to remove the threat. Relative colors are irrelevant - it's escalating the fight to a potentially lethal level (via closed head trauma) that matters.

 

But you're the one with 7 guns in the sig. 

[DocM]

Those are irrelevant to what happened in Florida. You're just using them as a handhold because nothing else you're saying is making sense.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

I said from the beginning that i accepted the judgement, My problem with this case is would you please tell me the exact steps that as a large black man I must perform for an armed guy that looks white I must perform so that I do not die? Don't mash his head into the concrete I got, like that ever happened to the extent that Zimmerman said but I got that. Any other tips? That's problem with this case. Zimmerman got off because the state didn't meet the burden of proof, I accept that. But it certainly didn't answer my question. Zimmerman wasn't going to let another black guy commit a crime in his neighborhood. Good for him, we got that. And he was very successful in this case, Trayvon Martin, at least alive will never cause anyone any problems. Bravo for Zimmerman, he got a punk off the street.

 

My problem is when I'm the punk that wasn't doing anything to anyone that a wanna be Zimmerman wants to get of the streets.  See black person, fire. Ultimately that's what this verdict vindicates. 

 

Mistakes were made by both men.  Zimmerman was too aggressive and Martin became aggressive in response.  And your statement about "see a black man, fire" is an emotional exaggeration.  Bad things happen to people, I don't have the answers, we can just try to do better.  You say you're a large black man and now (or always) have felt threatened by armed guys that look white, I can't help you, certainly wished I could.  And you say you accept the judgment, by your statements I believe you haven't.  I will offer that if you are ever confronted by someone, try to reason with them.   To be honest, I don't think anything anyone can say to you will help.

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

But you're the one with 7 guns in the sig. 

 

I guess you also think this is what his back yard looks like right?

 

 

Your argument is just invalid.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

I guess you also think this is what his back yard looks like right?

 

 

Your argument is just invalid.

 

 

Doc was doing an inventory that day......!

[Woelfel]

As a black man, I understand how other African americans feel. We do live in a society that we are treated differently, even to our "own", there's no need for anyone to disagree unless you lived through the lives that we do. On the other hand, I'm not going to make it a race issue because I've taught myself that people will be people no matter your color, gender, class, etc... What I will say is that a child was needlessly killed for absolutely no reason but on a man being suspect of an individual based off of his thought process. You can call it "justice" all you want, and it may be "justice" within the "rules" of our judicial system (of Florida) but then there are "morals" and "common sense" in which our judicial system does not account for because we look at certain variables in an equation that is not perfect because humans are not perfect so our "justice" will never be "perfect."

 

For those who are black and understand our certain struggles in life, be mindful that not all other races have it easy either, they also have their struggles. The only thing we can do is to teach our brethren about the harshness of this world. Not everything is black and white. Do not make blanket statements as it is not correct either. For those who aren't black, please understand that you don't understand our struggle and the life that we live that will literally be oblivious to you unless you lived it. It's not always big things like these cases...it could literally be walking down the street and someone is "afraid" of you and you literally can tell...but I won't divulge into that. You too, do not make blanket statements.

 

Justice or not, someone died for no good reason and for that, everyone should agree upon. If you do not, well, all I can say is that I hope that you aren't put into that position and you are on the other side of the fence crying wolf.

 

I am sad for the family that lost the life of a family member, and from this, reinforce on how I should behave in the society that I live in. It's not fair, and it will never be fair and I have to enjoy the time that I have on this planet before I am gone. Those are the only truths.

 

-cw

[heatlesssun]

Those are irrelevant to what happened in Florida. You're just using them as a handhold because nothing else you're saying is making sense.

 

But that's the point? When is racial inequality ever sensible? Did slavery make sense? Did Jim Crow make sense? Does Affirmative Action make sense? It never makes sense. It doesn't make sense that a teenager that wasn't doing anything to anyone at the time that he got killed. Oh Zimmerman's head was being beat into concrete. Not when Zimmerman profiled him  Zimmerman saw a black kid and said not this time. I accept the jury's judgement. But I will never accept having to answer to a white looking guy following me if I'm doing nothing. Certainly you would never accept a black guy following you. You' d pull out one of you bazzilion guns and be done with it.

[DocM]

No, I wouldn't. The firearms are a last contingency, but one that has to be there given the realities of many areas. What you don't see is that my firearms are mostly used for target, training, and hunting. Like many tools each is useful for a specific purpose.

Some are better for use by my wife, daughter or carrying with certain outfits - example being the LCP and LC9 which being tiny are better for my wife or daughter to use in bra or thigh holsters. Also good for under a suit or light clothing. The .50 AE and the un-shown .500 Mag revolver are for the field when big game hunting or camping or hiking in bear / cougar / wild pig country. The P250sc and P250fs are actually the same gun configured to 2 of its 3 possible sizes - the Transformer of pistols. The P239 is a backup for if the P250 is in the shop or being used by someone else. Etc.

[KingCracker]

Good, the justice system worked..

[AWilliams87]

As a black man, I understand how other African americans feel. We do live in a society that we are treated differently, even to our "own", there's no need for anyone to disagree unless you lived through the lives that we do. On the other hand, I'm not going to make it a race issue because I've taught myself that people will be people no matter your color, gender, class, etc... What I will say is that a child was needlessly killed for absolutely no reason but on a man being suspect of an individual based off of his thought process. You can call it "justice" all you want, and it may be "justice" within the "rules" of our judicial system (of Florida) but then there are "morals" and "common sense" in which our judicial system does not account for because we look at certain variables in an equation that is not perfect because humans are not perfect so our "justice" will never be "perfect."

 

For those who are black and understand our certain struggles in life, be mindful that not all other races have it easy either, they also have their struggles. The only thing we can do is to teach our brethren about the harshness of this world. Not everything is black and white. Do not make blanket statements as it is not correct either. For those who aren't black, please understand that you don't understand our struggle and the life that we live that will literally be oblivious to you unless you lived it. It's not always big things like these cases...it could literally be walking down the street and someone is "afraid" of you and you literally can tell...but I won't divulge into that. You too, do not make blanket statements.

 

Justice or not, someone died for no good reason and for that, everyone should agree upon. If you do not, well, all I can say is that I hope that you aren't put into that position and you are on the other side of the fence crying wolf.

 

I am sad for the family that lost the life of a family member, and from this, reinforce on how I should behave in the society that I live in. It's not fair, and it will never be fair and I have to enjoy the time that I have on this planet before I am gone. Those are the only truths.

 

-cw

I'm black, but i'm not going to retrospectively view this guy as a saint and have a moment of silence. The only honor i'm going to give him is to view him as he rightfully wanted to be seen as: a thug. Had this incident not happened, Travyon would probably have killed someone in a few years or so; more likely another black guy his age. He was caught with women jewelry in his bag (which he never explained how he got) along with tools which could be "used for home invasion". If he weren't a thug, he would be alive.

[KingCracker]

If you review the evidence on Trayvon Martin, you can tell he was no saint, he wasn't some good kid. He was suspended for pot residue in a baggy, he had someone text him wanting a plant... he also got caught with a bunch of womens jewelry and a burglary tool. He got in one fight that he lost and another fight that he won, and text messages show that he wanted to fight that guy again  because he didn't make him bleed enough. He tried to sell an illegal gun through social media.. 

 

He was FAR from that 12 year old picture of him..

[xpablo]

Obama, Sharpton & Jackson made this case a Race issue, Obama is the president and should never comment on a court trial or somebody accused of a crime.

That is up to the Justice dept. A president should always stay neutral in these cases.

 

This whole thing should never have went to trial to begin with.

 

This whole year racism has been on the increase because SOME Black Americans, have decided to blame their problems on based on their race, it's only gotten worse since Obama has been 

president. We should judge people by their actions and not by their race or color of their skin!  

[KingCracker]

Obama, Sharpton & Jackson made this case a Race issue, Obama is the president and should never comment on a court trial or somebody accused of a crime.

That is up to the Justice dept. A president should always stay neutral in these cases.

 

This whole thing should never have went to trial to begin with.

 

This whole year racism has been on the increase because SOME Black Americans, have decided to blame their problems on based on their race, it's only gotten worse since Obama has been 

president. We should judge people by their actions and not by their race or color of their skin!  

 

And because of the race baiting by the mass media there could possibly more blood shed.

[heatlesssun]

No, I wouldn't. The firearms are a last contingency, but one that has to be there given the realities of many areas. What you don't see is that my firearms are mostly used for target, training, and hunting. Like many tools each is useful for a specific purpose.

 

Fair enough, But Zimmerman is going to make more money by killing a black kid that wasn't doing anything criminal at the point that he spotted him than I ever dreamed of by minding my own business, Yeah, I'm ######ing terrified by weaponzed folks because of my race. 

[Tom]

That jury is, holy crap... ######ing dumb.

[heatlesssun]

If you review the evidence on Trayvon Martin, you can tell he was no saint, he wasn't some good kid. He was suspended for pot residue in a baggy, he had someone text him wanting a plant... he also got caught with a bunch of womens jewelry and a burglary tool. He got in one fight that he lost and another fight that he won, and text messages show that he wanted to fight that guy again  because he didn't make him bleed enough. He tried to sell an illegal gun through social media.. 

 

He was FAR from that 12 year old picture of him..

 

And Zimmerman would have only known this at the time of of the incident if he'd been working at the the NSA. Apparently government spying on people is ok if you're a blank teenager,  After all, black teenagers are a threat. 

[KingCracker]

Fair enough, But Zimmerman is going to make more money by killing a black kid that wasn't doing anything criminal at the point that he spotted him than I ever dreamed of by minding my own business, Yeah, I'm ****ing terrified by weaponzed folks because of my race.

Trayvon Martin was beating on Zimmerman and smashing his head into the concrete, yep Trayvon is totally innocent. Dont want to be shot? Then dont put yourself in the position to get shot.

Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch. the police tell you to report any suspecious activity if they think something up. He followedhim and reported suspicious activity.. Nothing wrong with that.

Given the evidence on Martin, he was not a nice guy. Regardless the neighborhood had a rash of break ins by black people. You can try to make this a race issue but Zimmerman was not racist, he had.opened a business with a black friend, gave his house keys to a black woman because her house was broke into and he helped teach black children. Far from a racist.