"Threshold" to be Called Windows 9, Ship in April 2015


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as said a couple of times in this thread, i just hope they give us choice...   win7 style or modern style

 

Or a blend like we have now.

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as said a couple of times in this thread, i just hope they give us choice...   win7 style or modern style

Ugh, no. It's time to carry things forward. The kludgy 90's desktop (and its multitude of problems) isn't it anymore. There's no reason computing can't evolve from that at this point.

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I expect choice but some people seem to think it'll be choice between the two UI styles we have today in 8.x.  That's something I don't expect really, we'll get a updated Metro 2.0 UI for sure, that's the way forward as far as next major computing devices go (tablets and smartphones taking over from old school desktops).  All the rumors of allowing winrt/store apps to run windowed on the desktop next to classic win32 apps also says that winrt is the development path of choice for them going forward.   I think this is best for developers since they can make a app and winrt allows for the UI to scale, you can then target everything from the phone to tablets with a touch first UI and then scale things to fit better in a windowed kb+mouse environment and it should all happen on the fly or at run time.  This is also why I expect the "menu" we're hearing about coming back is not going to be the menu from 7 at all.  I expect a mix of old an new and support for winrt apps and their tiles.  In fact the taskbar itself should be updated to support pinning live tiles with this news of a menu coming back and windowed store apps.   I also expect the charms to find a new place, probably in the new menu but not to go away at all.  After that, it'll just be a choice of which you want to use with preset defaults coming from MS on specific SKUs.   A Windows 9 Pro will default it's install to the menu and windowed winrt apps options while a core version that will be on tablets and even phones through WP and Windows RT merging, will default to the new "metro 2.0" UX.

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Ugh, no. It's time to carry things forward. The kludgy 90's desktop (and its multitude of problems) isn't it anymore.

 

I like Modern almost as much as you, but I don't see any problem in letting people use the desktop, at least until Modern matures a bit more. I still find it more convenient for stuff like file management, so I wouldn't want it eliminated any more than I want Modern relegated to just tablets and phones.

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Or a blend like we have now.

 

 

A blend like we have now could very well be the default in one of the Windows 9 versions, maybe the base x86 "core" version while the Pro/Enterprise version can default to the new menu with a merged WP+Windows RT not having the desktop at all.   The key here is that users will have the ability to change to settings in either the core or pro version to whatever they like.  It doesn't set MS back at all, the fact users can run store apps windowed or not means that even if lots of them switch to the new menu and not the updated start screen they option and ability to tap into store apps is still there either way.   Developers would be smart in coding their future apps with the ability to have 2 UIs and switch depending on where they're running, if windowed on the desktop then have a more mouse centric UI loaded, but if they're on the metro side in full screen with touch then have a touch centric UI load.  I'm pretty sure winrt allows for the UI to scale and change if it needs to.

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It does indeed need metro.  You cannot run it on the desktop.. trust me.. I tried.  I got into the beta and installed it at work, but it can only be started via the metro screen, and cannot be resized and can only be snapped.  Trust me.. it needs metro.

Your right and I replied to you with another reason they went that way. They want to offer access to tablet users, so they created an ap that is more touch friendly.

 

 

Every customer that asks me for new computer buying advice starts by asking me ...

"Which Windows do you recommend I get? I've heard bad things about Windows 8. I've heard its hard to use"

I'm not making this up. This has been my experience from people contacting me on computer buying advice. I tell them that if they buy a computer in the store they will be getting Windows 8 / 8.1. If they did want to get Windows 7. Their best bet is to shop online.

 

I'm guessing Dot Matrix will say everyone he knows Loves Windows 8. This is not to say some people don't legitimately like Windows 8. But if the people who love Windows 8 are acquaintances of DM i'm also guessing there might be some coolaid drinking involved

So wait, people tell you that they 'heard' 8 is hard to use and you don't give them advice on it?

I have also been selling pcs and I also hear that line. My goal is to actually demo the system for them and show its not as hard or bad as they may have heard. If they see it and still feel its not for them, then we talk alternatives.

I remember the same line offered for Vista even after its issues were largely fixed. Most general PC users will hear something about software and they adopt that as their opinion without using it themselves since the info is from 'trusted sources' like radio personalities, tech publications, etc.

Over the years, I have noticed that when you actually demo software and show them how it works, they often feel differently then when they came in. Not everyone loves 8, but not everyone hates it either. Most people I have dealt with end up liking it enough that they are willing to use it. That doesn't mean they are head over hills in love with it. It just means they don't hate it.

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I like Modern almost as much as you, but I don't see any problem in letting people use the desktop, at least until Modern matures a bit more. I still find it more convenient for stuff like file management, so I wouldn't want it eliminated any more than I want Modern relegated to just tablets and phones.

I'm not saying they can't, but to have an "on/off" option wouldn't work. Microsoft is largely trying to ween people off of the classic UI now, and trying to hold on to it like it's an "option" to be had is silly at best.

 

One way or another, the classic UI is not long in the tooth.

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There is a clear divide in the user base and there is a clear lack of compromise.

So if MS wants to calm both sides down all they have to do is offer everyone the choice.

Let users choose a 'classic shell' that disables all Metro features while in the desktop. At the same time, MS can still improve and grow Metro and the WinRT environment. Those features will still be there for anyone that wants that experience.

I think the 'compromise' is that the metro integration should be enabled by default so new users get a chance to try it all out and decide for themselves.

Any of us power users or anyone else that prefers the desktop UI by itself, should then be able to switch to the 'classic shell' and be done. I believe MS can do this thanks to the modular nature of Win 8 at its core. The metro or winrt elements can be flexible in that way. They proved with 8.1 that they can offer choices.

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Let users choose a 'classic shell' that disables all Metro features while in the desktop. At the same time, MS can still improve and grow Metro and the WinRT environment. Those features will still be there for anyone that wants that experience.

that isn't an option,and would be such a waste of time. you don't get a huge userbase to move to the new API and framework by making it a user choice.

 

their solution is giving the option to run metro apps on the desktop,which is coming soon. whatever helps the adoption of metro apps and the transition, im all for it. I've said it many times, metro will evolve over time,and what people see today,will look pretty primitive in the future. with v1, the foundation has been laid,and good things are going to come.

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Windows 7 has a search box. While most users don't know they can search its not for a lack of not seeing a search box. In windows 8.1 there is no search box to see, they just have to know to start typing into thin air.

My not-so-subtle point was people don't use it even when Windows 7 has a in-you-face search box staring at them all the time. If they don't use it in Windows 7 - problem is not UI design, problem is the person who can't or won't adapt to new UI.

If they don't use it in Windows 8.1's literally in-your-face, look-at-me-you-can-click-here hints then who is to blame?

(I am not getting into general Metro hidden UI argument again. I am just limiting my post to the search box point.)

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However, I cannot stand Aero (transparency specifically) now.  I do prefer the Windows 8 desktop UI changes to Windows 7.   

Me, too. But I think MS could have leapfrogged Apple('s iOS 7) if they had gone more into this direction with much more subtle and restrained usage of transparency compared to W7. They didn't have to completely eliminate it. Maybe something like that is still coming for windowed Metro apps (in W9?)...

post-5569-0-34080600-1389640968.jpg

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So wait, people tell you that they 'heard' 8 is hard to use and you don't give them advice on it?

 

 

While I don't demo it a lot, I have had customers in my office to pickup their computer and they give me the windows 8 speal, so I show them windows 8 on my computer, tiles, all apps, search, charms and all. They don't leave feeling better about windows 8.

 

They sorta look like a deer in the head light.

 

Do I say bad things about windows 8 to them? No!

Do I tell them I think the all apps menu looks like a mess, yes!

Do I show then show them how they can easily search? For whatever application they want. Of course.

 

Am I going to going to pull a DM and start going on and on to the customer about how great windows 8? No, For that, I would first have to believe it myself. But hey, at least I show people Windows 8. My competitor down town still won't even touch Windows 8 with a 10 foot pool.

 

I show them the ins and outs of 8 but frankly how do you make the charms bar useful on the desktop? On a tablet, sure the side swipe is pretty nifty, but on the desktop how to do you make a hidden menu on the side of the screen look any kinds of useful?

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that isn't an option,and would be such a waste of time. you don't get a huge userbase to move to the new API and framework by making it a user choice.

 

their solution is giving the option to run metro apps on the desktop,which is coming soon. whatever helps the adoption of metro apps and the transition, im all for it. I've said it many times, metro will evolve over time,and what people see today,will look pretty primitive in the future. with v1, the foundation has been laid,and good things are going to come.

I'm not saying make it optional at the API level as much as the UI level.

8.1 already does this. MS added options to boot straight to the desktop and disable the hot corners function. All they really need to do to satisfy most people that have serious problems with 8 is:

1. Allow apps to run in windows and be pinned to the taskbar like any other programs

2. Offer a 'classic start menu' option

3. Allow the charms bar to be disabled while on the desktop.

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While I don't demo it a lot, I have had customers in my office to pickup their computer and they give me the windows 8 speal, so I show them windows 8 on my computer tiles, all apps, search, charms and all. They don't leave feeling better about windows 8.

Well that just goes to show how varied the user base is for Windows. You show them the ins and outs of 8 including how to customize it to their liking (such as booting straight to the desktop) and explain what it retains from 7 on the desktop and what works differently and yet they still hate 8.

That's all you can do to educate them. If they still don't like it, time to move on.

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Wow, this is great news.  Something tells me that Windows 9 will become the next Windows 7 as far as acceptance, stability and popularity.  I can only hope they will update the explorer and shell icons to match the Metro feel.  I'm sorry, but having the same glossy icons for Computer, Recycle Bin, etc. in Windows 8 (especially on the File Explorer ribbon), just looks out of place.

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I'm not saying make it optional at the API level as much as the UI level.

8.1 already does this. MS added options to boot straight to the desktop and disable the hot corners function. All they really need to do to satisfy most people that have serious problems with 8 is:

1. Allow apps to run in windows and be pinned to the taskbar like any other programs

2. Offer a 'classic start menu' option

3. Allow the charms bar to be disabled while on the desktop.

 

I understood your previous statement as, let users choose to disable metro completely(including apps).

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I understood your previous statement as, let users choose to disable metro completely(including apps).

Your right, I did say it that way. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what people want and what people would be willing accept as a compromise option.

I don't think apps need to be disabled, just make them optional. They already are optional, so MS doesn't need to change anything. As long as those that have no interest in anything metro, including apps, can avoid them, that should satisfy them.

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Your right, I did say it that way. I guess I'm just trying to figure out what people want and what people would be willing accept as a compromise option.

I don't think apps need to be disabled, just make them optional. They already are optional, so MS doesn't need to change anything. As long as those that have no interest in anything metro, including apps, can avoid them, that should satisfy them.

But there's no indication of the sort that that is what MSFT is doing, and nor should they. They're ready to take the next step with Metro.

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Every customer that asks me for new computer buying advice starts by asking me ...

 

"Which Windows do you recommend I get? I've heard bad things about Windows 8. I've heard its hard to use"

This is my experience as well. 

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There should definitely be a way to turn EVERYTHING metro off. Be it by a control panel applet or GPO. Our newest DC's running 2012 (non-R2) look ridiculous with a start screen of perhaps 4 tiles lol. And why the heck do you want the Store on a server?

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There should definitely be a way to turn EVERYTHING metro off. Be it by a control panel applet or GPO. Our newest DC's running 2012 (non-R2) look ridiculous with a start screen of perhaps 4 tiles lol. And why the heck do you want the Store on a server?

Ironically Microsoft's server push is to run without a GUI at all (Server Core). Or at least that's what it was when they thought Windows 8.x (Metro UI) might succeed. If they restore/improve the desktop options in Windows 9 thought hopefully they'll also refocus on the GUI in the servers as well. Server Core and PowerShell are awesome options/capabilities but they shouldn't entirely replace Desktop GUI on servers.
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Ironically Microsoft's server push is to run without a GUI at all (Server Core). Or at least that's what it was when they thought Windows 8.x (Metro UI) might succeed. If they restore/improve the desktop options in Windows 9 thought hopefully they'll also refocus on the GUI in the servers as well. Server Core and PowerShell are awesome options/capabilities but they shouldn't entirely replace Desktop GUI on servers.

True but if you have several server core installs; you still have a GUI server manager somewhere on a NMS server or win8 client.

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There should definitely be a way to turn EVERYTHING metro off. Be it by a control panel applet or GPO. Our newest DC's running 2012 (non-R2) look ridiculous with a start screen of perhaps 4 tiles lol. And why the heck do you want the Store on a server?

Trying to turn Metro off, is like trying to turn the classic UI off, you can't, and why would you? How do you carry things forward by allowing people to turn everything off?

 

I'd really like to know what you people are going to do when 10-20 years from now, the classic UI is no longer part of your day.

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I like windows 8, and have nothing but good times in my personal use. I am sure that windows 9 will continue to be a good change of pace and fit right into my uses. It is sad however to see them have to distance themselves from media blow-back and the folks that just can't seem to adapt to things like the old start menu, menu shadows, and transparent windows.

 

Come to think of it, the only windows I haven't enjoyed using was ME.

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