There are many great features available to you once you register at Neowin, including:

  • Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the front page
  • Access to a great community, with a massive database of experience on hard & software issues, gaming and recreational activities, and more
  • Access to the Neowin IRC - you could make a friend from across the world and talk to them live
  • Access to Neowin contests & subscription offers and forums that are not open to guests/li>
  • It's simple, and FREE! · Register here

"Threshold" to be Called Windows 9, Ship in April 2015


 Share

Recommended Posts

Can't believe there are soo many people telling others to buy 7 instead of just showing them how to use 8 or tell them there are start menu options like Classic Shell.

When 8 came out I had a nephew (among others) asking how to open apps from the Start screen and he was also asking if he still had the option to go back to 7. All I did was say: "just start typing the name of the app on the start screen". I then told him about classic shell if he wants a start menu that bad. That was all I had to do.

99% of the Modern UI haters are simply people who can't stand change and don't want to learn anything new. Also a good chunk rely too much on the Aero Glass look. Let it go. It's an old look.

The only thing about 8 I don't like is how they kept the Aero era icons. Yet those are only icons. Not something that'll kill me to see every day.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't believe there are soo many people telling others to buy 7 instead of just showing them how to use 8 or tell them there are start menu options like Classic Shell.

When 8 came out I had a nephew (among others) asking how to open apps from the Start screen and he was also asking if he still had the option to go back to 7. All I did was say: "just start typing the name of the app on the start screen". I then told him about classic shell if he wants a start menu that bad. That was all I had to do.

99% of the Modern UI haters are simply people who can't stand change and don't want to learn anything new. Also a good chunk rely too much on the Aero Glass look. Let it go. It's an old look.

The only thing about 8 I don't like is how they kept the Aero era icons. Yet those are only icons. Not something that'll kill me to see every day.

 

I've given a few people classic shell, but I don't want to do that to too many people, why you ask? Well it's not built into windows, people are idiots when it comes to updating software and if I give it to 50 people and one day classic shell stops working i'll get flooded with phone calls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trying to turn Metro off, is like trying to turn the classic UI off, you can't, and why would you? How do you carry things forward by allowing people to turn everything off?

 

I'd really like to know what you people are going to do when 10-20 years from now, the classic UI is no longer part of your day.

I would like to turn it off because metro serves no purpose on a server while the classic UI does. All the applets are win32. That isn't going to be metrofied for a LONG time if ever (probably going to be replaced by PS scriplets). ****ing off EA customers is not a good way to move your company forward either.

So there you go, the future isn't metro but Powershell rofl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But there's no indication of the sort that that is what MSFT is doing, and nor should they. They're ready to take the next step with Metro.

Again, MS was willing to add options in 8.1, don't be shocked if they add more with 9.

Adding options for power users does not impact their efforts to improve Metro or WinRT. MS needs time to make the platform more mature and feature rich.

 

 

There should definitely be a way to turn EVERYTHING metro off. Be it by a control panel applet or GPO. Our newest DC's running 2012 (non-R2) look ridiculous with a start screen of perhaps 4 tiles lol. And why the heck do you want the Store on a server?

I don't know if this applies, but MS did put options into Server for companies that want to manage in house apps developed for 8 for its employees to use. I think that included creating a custom store that only showed company apps. Maybe that is why the store left in server installs.

Also, which version of server allows you to boot straight to the desktop like 8.1? That would help I think.

 

 

Can't believe there are soo many people telling others to buy 7 instead of just showing them how to use 8 or tell them there are start menu options like Classic Shell.

Unfortunately I've seen some that are in positions to recommend or sell people pcs that simply have no interest in holding their hand and correcting any misinformation they my have. Its simply easier to agree and give them what they ask for. This is not a new issue, but it makes 8's rollout even harder. It perpetuates the bad 'vibes' around the OS.

I guess its either laziness or because they don't like the product they are selling. Sometimes its hard to put yourself into the shoes of the average PC user.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what'll be in Threshold? The two things Thurrott says are a way of running Metro apps on the desktop and a reinstatement of the Start menu. Our sources say that's only sort of true, and that it won't be the Start menu as such but rather something new. Start menuesque, perhaps, but not a literal Start menu.

There you go. The Windows 7 start menu is dead.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/windows-9-rumor-mill-heating-up-heading-for-an-april-2015-arrival/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Did you check out the link in this article to that mock up of windows 8.2.

I like what they are doing there, haven't read the whole article yet, it's pretty long, but the images look pretty cool

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you check out the link in this article to that mock up of windows 8.2.

I like what they are doing there, haven't read the whole article yet, it's pretty long, but the images look pretty cool

Agree. That start panel is acceptable. But, the white windows... it blinds! Night mode please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if that is true, than it will be interesting to see what the reaction is. Are people going to demand an exact replica of the 7 start menu or will they be willing to meet MS half way if they offer a new version of a start menu, something maybe more in keeping with the metro ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you check out the link in this article to that mock up of windows 8.2.

I like what they are doing there, haven't read the whole article yet, it's pretty long, but the images look pretty cool

Yeah. That mockup was on the front page a while back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if that is true, than it will be interesting to see what the reaction is. Are people going to demand an exact replica of the 7 start menu or will they be willing to meet MS half way if they offer a new version of a start menu, something maybe more in keeping with the metro ideas.

Those that were thinking the literal Windows 7 Start Menu were coming back were living in a fantasy. If that hobbled up bit of garbage is someone's killer feature, than I feel bad for them. It was never going to last much longer in the degraded condition it was in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From your very bleak description of Windows 8 you're describing that it's a massive flop which has literally no following.

 

That is correct, windows 8.x only showed minuscule marketshare growth 3 months during 2013 and windows 7 showed growth during the other 9 months.

 

Not just a "massive flop", windows 8.x is a colossal failure.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just hope the update 1 or what ever its called is slipstream-able and not a whole new OS like 8.1 is. Furthermore I hope it does not come thru the store either. I have seen so many broken systems since this store update where everything from the wifi to even certain Microsoft apps wont work with the 8.1 upgrade but work fine with the clean install and the same system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 If that hobbled up bit of garbage is someone's killer feature, than I feel bad for them. It was never going to last much longer in the degraded condition it was in.

 

Your hatred for the start menu is really bad! Were you traumatized by the start menu as a child? I think you need therapy! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your hatred for the start menu is really bad! Were you traumatized by the start menu as a child? I think you need therapy! :D

Start menu was a washed-up alcoholic (still is) that knocked up his mom and then left them on their own and he didn't even pay child support, that ******. Start screen, on the hand, is the adoptive daddy, loving and taking care of Dot's every need and want, with a plan for the future. A plan to touch the hearts and minds of everyone. Dad's finding it hard getting investors so far, but next year, he's confident he'll succeed with an overhaul and everything will be right in the world.

 

Teh End. Or is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Start menu was a washed-up alcoholic (still is) that knocked up his mom and then left them on their own and he didn't even pay child support, that ******. Start screen, on the hand, is the adoptive daddy, loving and taking care of Dot's every need and want, with a plan for the future. A plan to touch the hearts and minds of everyone. Dad's finding it hard getting investors so far, but next year, he's confident he'll succeed with an overhaul and everything will be right in the world.

 

Teh End. Or is it?

 

The start screen is the daddy that likes to be touched! :shiftyninja: 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, I haven't found much fault with Windows 8 since the 8.1 upgrade. I've also uninstalled Start8 and just use the Start Screen. It kicks ass on an HTPC and is much more tolerable now that I have a widescreen monitor. That being said, give users a choice. Given the size of Start8 and other menu replacements, there isn't a lot of extra code for them to maintain in order to enable a choice. Is there other areas that could be tweaked, yes of course, but I have nowhere near the disdain I once had for the OS. One thing I do wish they'd allow is the disabling of composting, per application as some of my programs don't like it. As for the app store, don't care about it. Haven't bought anything and probably never will. The lack of Aero also means nothing. I'd rather have the CPU/GPU cycles doing something more useful.

 

Something else I noticed is how clunky Windows 7 feels now compared to 8.1. When I work on a 7 machine, it takes longer to boot and isn't as responsive, even when freshly installed. Thought it was me at first but it really is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is correct, windows 8.x only showed minuscule marketshare growth 3 months during 2013 and windows 7 showed growth during the other 9 months.

 

Not just a "massive flop", windows 8.x is a colossal failure.

You guys get a real kick out of this bashing stuff. Its a popular past time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is correct, windows 8.x only showed minuscule marketshare growth 3 months during 2013 and windows 7 showed growth during the other 9 months.

 

Not just a "massive flop", windows 8.x is a colossal failure.

This is correct. Not only has 8.x been a complete failure, of those actually using it only a small fraction are using tifkam. Nobody wants it, except for a small but vocal group of, er, ardent fans....

 

The big question facing ms, is do they dare risk yet another failure...?? Can their brand survive another 8 style failure..?? Smart money say hell no.

 

It's admirable that they tried to get into the mobile market, albeit late. However, they have failed miserable to put even a tiny dent into the apple/android dominated market. Their efforts do not even rise to "also ran" status.

 

They face a major decision: appease their billion or so desktop clients, or alienate them by pandering to a tiny group of tifkam fans. The choice would appear obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is correct, windows 8.x only showed minuscule marketshare growth 3 months during 2013 and windows 7 showed growth during the other 9 months.

 

Not just a "massive flop", windows 8.x is a colossal failure.

LOL. Thanks, I needed a laugh.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your hatred for the start menu is really bad! Were you traumatized by the start menu as a child? I think you need therapy! :D

The Start menu is pointing-device centric - period.  If you are used to doing everything  (or most things) via the keyboard (touching your pointing device, regardless of type, only occasionally), the Start menu is what gets in the way.  (As it is, even when I was using Windows 7, I used my mouse more in games and individual applications (such as the browser) than in the OS in general - and Windows 7 still has a Start menu.)  Application pinning and desktop shortcuts/pinning don't get in the keyboard user's way like the Start menu does - which is likely why those features stayed.  (The issue is not even unique to Windows - look at the bifurcation merely in GNOME - and especially since GNOME 3.0 went into development.  I await with bated breath when the issue arrives at the doorstoop of KDE.)

 

Of what benefit is the Start menu (including every third-=party version) for keyboard jockeys?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Start menu is pointing-device centric - period.  If you are used to doing everything  (or most things) via the keyboard (touching your pointing device, regardless of type, only occasionally), the Start menu is what gets in the way.  (As it is, even when I was using Windows 7, I used my mouse more in games and individual applications (such as the browser) than in the OS in general - and Windows 7 still has a Start menu.)  Application pinning and desktop shortcuts/pinning don't get in the keyboard user's way like the Start menu does - which is likely why those features stayed.  (The issue is not even unique to Windows - look at the bifurcation merely in GNOME - and especially since GNOME 3.0 went into development.  I await with bated breath when the issue arrives at the doorstoop of KDE.)

 

Of what benefit is the Start menu (including every third-=party version) for keyboard jockeys?

 

But the problem is, not everyone uses just a keyboard.  Hell I used a mouse way way more than a keyboard.  I don't use a touch screen on my computer, and will likely never.. I lose productivity if I wanted to move to that.  

The start menu is way way better for me than the start screen ever will be.  I still sue the start menu as a start menu.   Just because some people don't use it, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.  I still 100% believe metro is for tablets, and phones. I don't see it as having a place on a desktop, production, machine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They face a major decision: appease their billion or so desktop clients, or alienate them by pandering to a tiny group of tifkam fans. The choice would appear obvious.

 

 

The question is how do they appease them and does it turn out that it wasn't Win 8, but the coming mobile storm of tablets and smartphones that began the pc market decline.

 

If you have been reading this thread, its clear that the 1 billion users do not agree on what needs to be done to Windows moving forward.  I think its silly to try and claim superiority in the debate though.  I see people on every side claim that they have more 'supporters'.

 

In the real world, you have two groups of users:  The general pc user and the power user

 

The power user group can be split into semi-pro and pro users.  This is the group that basically decides which version of Windows is good or bad and informs the general pc user about what to get or avoid.  This group is fairly divided over Win 8/8.1.  I have no idea what the ratio is.  It could be 50:50 or 90:10 for all I know, but taking stock of some forums, you have groups of users that are strictly opposed to Win 8 completely and then groups that have been happy with it.

 

But the key is that the general pc user hears about all the negative talk and the drum beat of issues and complaints more than they do about the satisfied users and so in their mind, Win 8 is to be avoided. This happens all the time with a  new OS release. 

 

It would be interesting to see MS fix the issues some are complaining about and then the pc market still declines.  That would throw cold water on the whole idea that it was all MS and Windows 8's fault.  I'm pretty sure its impossible for MS to please each and every users, so they need to do what it takes to please the majority of them.  I believe that means offering users more control over their experience.

 

 

But the problem is, not everyone uses just a keyboard.  Hell I used a mouse way way more than a keyboard.  I don't use a touch screen on my computer, and will likely never.. I lose productivity if I wanted to move to that.  

The start menu is way way better for me than the start screen ever will be.  I still sue the start menu as a start menu.   Just because some people don't use it, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.  I still 100% believe metro is for tablets, and phones. I don't see it as having a place on a desktop, production, machine.

 

 

You illustrated the fact that this is a divided market.  You don't do something, but then other users do.  Other users do something, but then you don't.  You believe Metro has no place on a desktop, but then others do. Heck, just talk to htpc builders.  They have found uses for it there for instance.   My point is that getting rid of features that some people like will only make the problem worse.  You will be happier, and yet another user will not.  Clearly, MS needs to adopt a more modular strategy.

 

Modular is the answer.  MS has shown clear signs that they can and are willing to adopt more custom options in Win 8 that allow you to tailor the experience whether that means more or less Metro influence on your desktop.  It reminds me of the Windows Media Center days where two UIs lived together on one system with options to link them together or avoid one of the other. I think MS can return to those options for Metro and the desktop. 

 

So the fight needs to be for a more modular Windows, something that can be more tailored to the task of the device.  I really think MS has every intention of doing that.  I don't think MS is resisting the idea to fix Win 8/9 in that way precisely because their own plans call for it, a call to unify under a single core that can share apps, but also allow the UI that sits on top of that core to be flexible and change depending on the needs of the device.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the problem is, not everyone uses just a keyboard.  Hell I used a mouse way way more than a keyboard.  I don't use a touch screen on my computer, and will likely never.. I lose productivity if I wanted to move to that.  

The start menu is way way better for me than the start screen ever will be.  I still sue the start menu as a start menu.   Just because some people don't use it, doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.  I still 100% believe metro is for tablets, and phones. I don't see it as having a place on a desktop, production, machine.

Pot meet Kettle?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pot meet Kettle?

That was my point, that I don't feel it has a place there, just like others feel it's the best place for it.  That's why having the option to have it 100%, have it partial, or disable it is the best.  Then everyone is happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share