poll Windows 10 Preview (How do you like it?)

[Perfex]

The continued use Metro UI confuses me also, its has no place on a desktop.

Most of its aspects are giant a waste of realistate, elements of the UI are made so basic its actually harder to find what your looking for

 

lets put it this way.. you can own a car that runs awesomely fast, but if the seats are terribly uncomfortable you are less likely to enjoy the experience.

 

The bing elements are terribly intrusive & have to go, just why do I care what is trending and the image of the day is when I just want to do a search on my computer?

 

I am enjoying task view, and fact when windows are maximized they don't take full focus anymore

 

The unifying of the platform makes sense, but this is the wrong direction.

[nosense]

The continued use Metro UI confuses me also, its has no place on a desktop.

Most of its aspects are giant a waste of realistate, elements of the UI are made so basic its actually harder to find what your looking for

 

lets put it this way.. you can own a car that runs awesomely fast, but if the seats are terribly uncomfortable you are less likely to enjoy the experience.

 

The bing elements are terribly intrusive & have to go, just why do I care what is trending and the image of the day is when I just want to do a search on my computer?

 

I am enjoying task view, and fact when windows are maximized they don't take full focus anymore

 

The unifying of the platform makes sense, but this is the wrong direction.

What bing elements and how is it intrusive?

 

Don't like a app\live tile? Unpin or uninstall the app....

 

Don't like Cortana? Don't use it and disable it....

[Perfex]

 

Need I say more

[Dot Matrix]

Then don't use Cortana.

[nosense]

[Perfex]

Then don't use Cortana.

Its not being used, to be clear I have already removed it from the taskbar & cortana is off, but the above is the result just clicking on the search box when the start menu is opened

[nosense]

Its not being used, to be clear I have already removed it from the taskbar & cortana is off, but the above is the result just clicking on the search box when the start menu is opened

That's because you turn on Cortana, turn it off than you don't see any bing results and it's still work in progress that search bar is a place holder atm(aka bugged).

[Auditor]

I will sum it up as it is continuation of steps in the wrong direction. Same ugly UI and metrofication makes it half baked potato. This OS, although MS is giving free, going to tank as its precedator Win 8.

[Perfex]

OFF

 

 

ON

 

 

Both are rediculous

[nosense]

OFF

 

 

 

ON

 

 

 

Both are terrible

It's bugged placed holder...........

 

 

Turned off inside start menu.(it is bugged right now, it will turn back on if you click it again)

 

Anyways Cortana is still changing.

[PGHammer]

I assume not everybody can love a '' most - bugged '' Technical Preview ever .

Bugged - or complained about?

 

I hear lots of complaints - and very few honest bugs.  Honest bugs are things like the driver issues and other mostly known issues; however, I've been hearing (here at Neowin) more about UI complaints and icon complaints than bugs.

 

Even more telling, the complaints largely revolve around "it's not pointing-device-centric" or "it's not 7".

 

Of course not - it's not SUPPOSED to be 7; Windows 7 is BTDT (Been There, Done That).  Even more telling, where has it gone?

 

Is or isn't Windows 7 still being sold?  Is or isn't Windows 7 still purchasable as a new OS?

 

Consider this - Windows 10 hasn't had a Consumer Preview yet (a genuine beta); instead, it's been Technical Preview after Technical Preview.

 

A lot of the OS is either in flux or outright missing.  Yet it is AT LEAST as usable as 8.1 was, despite that.

 

Worse, I'm hearing a slight hunger for Vista - the second most despised pre-8 Microsoft OS for users (only Windows ME was more despised).

 

Go back and read the complaints ABOUT Vista - right here on Neowin itself.  (I didn't even MAKE any.)  Despite my non-complaints about Vista, I'm not waxing THAT nostalgic that I want Vista Redux - I don't want 7 Redux, either.

 

It is looking more and more like lots of folks are either unwilling to move or are outright nostalgic here on Neowin.

 

If you have application issues (other than the UI), there is even a thread for that - that I created - here in this specific subforum ("Compatibility Failures - What Is Keeping You From Windows 10").  Other than the games Daybreak inherited from Sony (that I kicked off that same thread with) - every application and game that I played in 8 I have been able to play in EVERY build of Windows 10 to date - including the leaked builds.  The number of operating systems that are that clean that they are no worse than the SHIPPING OS - as far as usability goes - previous to 10 number exactly one.  And no - 7 wasn't it, despite it changing less than Vista (which brought the code over from Windows Server).

 

Unlike those complaining, I didn't move the measuring stick (or the goalposts) any compared to even previous versions of Windows - and especially not compared to 7 - after all, why would (or should) I?  My hardware pretty much is unchanged (except for adding the notebook - which predates even 7).  Touch isn't part of the measuring - none of my hardware supports it.  The reason I no longer use an external mouse on my notebook is because the built-in trackpad is now properly supported in the OS - which is Windows 10 9926.  (After I pick up a new power brick, I'm planting 10041 on that same notebook.)  The notebook itself dates back to Vista - which is what originally shipped on it - yet it took three-plus OSes to get the trackpad support right?  Who is to blame, people?  Synaptics (that made the trackpad for HP)?  Microsoft (that supplied the driver said trackpad uses by default)?  Previous users? (After all, the notebook itself had two previous users before I got it - and hundreds of thousands of identical AND similar trackpads - from Synaptics and others - were and are included in notebooks today and years previously - what did those users do?)

 

Complaints are not bugs - BUGS are bugs.

 

Complaints are complaints - and I refuse to conflate, OR mix up, the two.

[PGHammer]

Problem is, there is no one way to define a "desktop" anymore. This is why Metro is there to begin with. That's why Microsoft is unifying all these devices with one UI that scales. There is no more going back Pre-Windows 8 UIs. The mouse is only going to fall away from use as other technologies take over.

Not necessarily fail away, Dot.  However, it will be used, if ONLY due to user-preference.

 

That's the REAL issue - the mouse itself is now an option - not mandatory - for the first time in Windows in almost three decades - regardless of your hardware.

 

If anything, that is why mini-Start was brought in - the StartScreen threatened to whack Microsoft's own hardware group right in the wallet.

 

Of ALL the hardware (other than Surface), what one piece of kit does Microsoft sell more of?  Pointing devices, and specifically mice.

 

Unlike the original Start menu, the StartScreen can be driven ENTIRELY by the keyboard.  If you know the keyboard shortcuts (which are unchanged from the first "Windows keyboard"), you only need mice for applications in Windows 8.x - not to maneuver around the OS.

 

Screw touch - the bigger threat to mice was the keyboard.

 

Touch may be threatening on smaller screens - however, keyboards are FAR more common on most Windows hardware - and are options on the rest of it.  Touch can be avoided - and usually is in terms of BYOPC due to cost/price.  However, how many users are going to even BUILD a PC sans keyboard?

 

A keyboard-driven GUI was supposed to be impossible.  So much for that idea - starting with Windows 8, in fact, it's plausible.  (While Android and iOS are NOT touch-centric, neither is capable of becoming keyboard-centric - Windows 8+ is, however.)

 

It sounds screwball - like a whale sneaking up on an alligator.  However, it's plausible (unlike the reality of a whale in Nike Airs).

[PGHammer]

Auditor - you have just made sure that Windows 10 won't fail.

 

You have just accused the majority of Windows users of suffering from SHS - Shallow Hal Syndrome.

 

By painting that picture of the Windows user base, you have painted as unflattering a picture of those users as was possible to paint - you just accused them of being unable to get past the differences in terms of UI altogether.  That, sir, is the IT equivalent of pre-judgmental.  I have greater faith in the Windows userbase than that - and I have a lot more hard data to back it up than you do - simply based on previous versions OF Windows.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Anarkii, what is stopping Win32 applications? I run them every day in 10041 (and every other build of 10, and 8.x before that). I even have a thread devoted specifically to software that (supposedly) doesn't work in the Windows 10 preview builds. Other than three games, the list of such compatibility failures is zero. (As in none - bupkis - the dodo egg.)

If you must have (or use) a Win32 (or Win64, for that matter) application or game, in ninety-nine out of one hundred cases, you won't have an issue. (The only OTHER versions of Windows - even in beta form - to rack up such utter cleanliness in terms of backward compatibility since the death of Windows ME - which didn't do it - are Windows 8 and 8.x. XP didn't do it, Vista didn't do it - even the much-preferred Windows 7 - before OR after Service Pack 1 - didn't do it.) Win32/64 is still available - even in Windows 10; on devices running BayTrail-T (such as tablets and even some phones and phablets) Win32/64 is an option even there! The ONLY reason I develop on Windows Server 2012R2 is because of Hyper-V (which I have made perfectly clear in the Windows Server and Virtualization threads). Win32/64 is still available - it has NOT been taken away.

You totally misread what I said.

What I want is METRO apps to have the exact same functionality as win32/64 apps on desktops/laptops and notebooks. At the moment, Metro apps on my desktop have the same functionality as a patato on a phone. Which is nothing. 

Think of it this way mate:

You goto Windows Store. You want Outlook. So you pay for it, and download it. 

Then on the desktop, you get the Metro version running (and looking) pretty much exactly like the current Office 2016 preview. Nothing taken out, everythings there. Then you get on a train, take a tablet, and Outlook is there again, but - it looks like that Outlook preview currently on the store since its for touch. Then you get to work, and in a meeting and you pull out your phone, and you get Outlook, for your phone device. BUT - its all the same one program. Not 3 different ones. The same, scaled for the device its using. 

THATS what I want to see happen. And so far, theres no Metro app that does it. You get ones for Phones and Tablets, but nothing for anything that can display apps in HD on a desktop in Metro style. So like I said, until that happens then Metro apps wont really take off, and its developers to blame for not doing it. 

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Actually Spartan is one Metro app that looks good on a desktop and scaled down on a phone. But yeah my argument still stands.

[Dot Matrix]

You totally misread what I said.

What I want is METRO apps to have the exact same functionality as win32/64 apps on desktops/laptops and notebooks. At the moment, Metro apps on my desktop have the same functionality as a patato on a phone. Which is nothing. 

Think of it this way mate:

You goto Windows Store. You want Outlook. So you pay for it, and download it. 

Then on the desktop, you get the Metro version running (and looking) pretty much exactly like the current Office 2016 preview. Nothing taken out, everythings there. Then you get on a train, take a tablet, and Outlook is there again, but - it looks like that Outlook preview currently on the store since its for touch. Then you get to work, and in a meeting and you pull out your phone, and you get Outlook, for your phone device. BUT - its all the same one program. Not 3 different ones. The same, scaled for the device its using. 

THATS what I want to see happen. And so far, theres no Metro app that does it. You get ones for Phones and Tablets, but nothing for anything that can display apps in HD on a desktop in Metro style. So like I said, until that happens then Metro apps wont really take off, and its developers to blame for not doing it. 

You're never going to get full parity. In the transition to Modern applications, features are going to be deprecated and removed or in the case of scalability, features that are just not feasible in Modern applications.

Also, what you just described, is what Microsoft is working towards, and has achieved with Windows 10. Right now, when you download a modern application from the Store, it's the same application on the desktop, tablet, and phone. Not 3 different ones. Office, for example, has achieved universal status.  

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

You're never going to get full parity. In the transition to Modern applications, features are going to be deprecated and removed or in the case of scalability, features that are just not feasible in Modern applications.

Also, what you just described, is what Microsoft is working towards, and has achieved with Windows 10. Right now, when you download a modern application from the Store, it's the same application on the desktop, tablet, and phone. Not 3 different ones. Office, for example, has achieved universal status.  

Yes Windows 10 has achieved it, but there is zero reason why thoe modern apps cannot be scaled so more features show on PCs with keyboard or mouse. If they can do it with Spartan, why not everything else? Why not with Outlook as I suggested? As it seems for me, its like they are intentionally dumbing down applications that run on the desktop just to make those people who run Tablets and Phones happy.

Outlook are 3 totally different apps. 

3 versions, same app. But the desktop version has the same features as the tablet one, just more screen space. 

Then on top of that, you got this - another version of Outlook altogether:

Then on top of that, you got the 2016 preview.

What im saying Dot is have 1 program (in this case, Outlook) - and have the UI that of Metro for PCs (anything with a keyboard and mouse), then the same program, but scaled features on the tablet for touch, then scaled even more for phones? 

Hope that clears it up. 1 program, literally. 3 devices. 3 different UIs. If scalability is such a big thing for Microsoft, then they REALLY need to implement it for its apps. 

 

[Jarrichvdv]

Spotify is still not working for me on Windows 10 TP, but the rest is looking OK. A bit worried about the pace of development.
Pretty excited to try out the refreshed core system apps that have yet to be released.
I hope they do a complete UI refresh of the entire OS, and not just the upper layers. I hate half-assed work.

 

[Rickkins]

 

Need I say more

Dude, the very first thing many of us do upon installing 10, is to install "Classic Shell", to fix the start menu.

 

IMHO win10 is UNUSABLE without classic shell. (and it's free)

 

http://www.classicshell.net/

[Jarrichvdv]

Dude, the very first thing many of us do upon installing 10, is to install "Classic Shell", to fix the start menu.

 

IMHO win10 is UNUSABLE without classic shell. (and it's free)

 

http://www.classicshell.net/

I can't properly reason with people who install Classic Shell, even more so in a technical preview which is aimed at users who are willing to test drive a work in progress.

Not to replace it with other tools.

 

[Rickkins]

I can't properly reason with people who install Classic Shell, even more so in a technical preview which is aimed at users who are willing to test drive a work in progress.

Not to replace it with other tools.

 

It's not really all that hard to figure out, but I'll try to help.

 

Preview or not, most people who have been into these things for a while, pretty much know what they want. And I can assure you, in no uncertain terms that the current start menu, for oh so many of us, is certainly not it.

 

Therefore, to properly test 10's usefulness we need to ensure that available fixes can still fix the mess that microsoft is pushing out. I am happy to state that at least for me, most of the annoyances are fixable. And make no mistake, the inability to fix their disastrous start menu, would be an absolute deal breaker.

 

Hope that helps.....

[DConnell Member]

Yes, you are wrong, and merely adding long winded rebuttals does not change that.

 

When you remove options, when you remove choice, when you limit flexibility, when you limit configurability, all of these things have a net result of dumbing down the entire operation. All of which may well be fine, on a phone, but it has not place on a desktop computer.

 

I agree. Windows 10, at the moment is dumbed down compared to 8.1. The lack of a proper Start Screen is removing choice, since in 8 we could add a menu if we wanted, or use the Screen. Since there's no 3rd party Screen tool, we basically have a choice between built-in menu or a 3rd party one. Which is no choice at all if you don't want a menu.

 

And before you bring out the canned "it can stay on tablets" response - I'm talking about my tower system on which I have 10 in a VM - which does not have a touchscreen. I want the Screen for use with a mouse and keyboard.

 

IMO, being dragged back to the same basic design as was forced on us in 1995 is the worst kind of dumbing down.

[PGHammer]

 

You totally misread what I said.

What I want is METRO apps to have the exact same functionality as win32/64 apps on desktops/laptops and notebooks. At the moment, Metro apps on my desktop have the same functionality as a patato on a phone. Which is nothing. 

Think of it this way mate:

You goto Windows Store. You want Outlook. So you pay for it, and download it. 

Then on the desktop, you get the Metro version running (and looking) pretty much exactly like the current Office 2016 preview. Nothing taken out, everythings there. Then you get on a train, take a tablet, and Outlook is there again, but - it looks like that Outlook preview currently on the store since its for touch. Then you get to work, and in a meeting and you pull out your phone, and you get Outlook, for your phone device. BUT - its all the same one program. Not 3 different ones. The same, scaled for the device its using. 

THATS what I want to see happen. And so far, theres no Metro app that does it. You get ones for Phones and Tablets, but nothing for anything that can display apps in HD on a desktop in Metro style. So like I said, until that happens then Metro apps wont really take off, and its developers to blame for not doing it. 

 

You want better hardware detection - so do I. However, not all users DEPEND on hardware detection; even more telling, not all users want to be constrained by what the OS thinks the hardware is - the OS has been known to get it wrong. (Trackpads and touchpads, for example, are NOTORIOUS for being misdetected in even Windows 8.1.)

That is where (and why) user-based adjustability comes in. It is nothing more (or less) than manual-override capability for UI/UX features.

The problem (as you framed it) has four components - what the developer knows about what hardware is out there (which is, typically, unsurprisingly little), what the OS knows about the hardware that is running (believe it or not, barely more than what the developer does), what Microsoft knows (non-disclosure agreements between Microsoft and their ODMs often work both ways - not just from Microsoft to the ODM, but from the ODM to Microsoft as well - how much of the functionality of a GPU, for example, is deliberately unexposed) and what hardware partners are willing to expose.

Even before Multiplatform Windows became a vision, all has been FAR from "sweetness and light" as far as even Windows hardware compatibility has gone - you and I both know that.

Now, Multiplatform Windows is coming into the home stretch - and those that are used to single-platform Windows are finding that their comfort zone is going away. What the hardware is no longer decides what can and will run on it. That isn't going to make the developer's job any easier. Result - developers are writing "bare minimum" apps. I can't exactly blame the developer - the hardware base was already wildly variable merely in the Win32 "salad days" of XP. Just at Windows 7 (remember, 8 hadn't even delivered a Developer Preview at that point) launched, things had started to get wilder and woolier - and that was just in terms of desktops and portables. Still, "bare minimum" is the watchword for Modern/RT development - what they can count on (in terms of features available to the app) varies way too wildly; that is why you see more MOBILE developers in the Modern/RT space, as opposed to desktop developers; desktop developers are not used to being constrained by the bare minimum. Modern/RT is constrained by exposed levers - it's not identical to desktop development. Do you have VS 2013 Community? If not, grab it right now - it costs nothing, and is as complete a multiplatform IDE for the masses as exists at any price. (Better yet, it costs exactly nothing.)

[nosense]

  MS is looking for feed back and testing bugs on features they introduce such as the new start menu. If you're installing classic shell, you should just  stick to windows 7 or 8 for now.

[Ian W]

  MS is looking for feed back and testing bugs on features they introduce such as the new start menu. If you're installing classic shell, you should just  stick to windows 7 or 8 for now.

Apparently the company is only looking for feedback which is in accord with what it already plans to do. Requests for the Windows 8.1 Start screen, for example, are seemingly ignored altogether.