Montana police officer breaks down after fatally shooting unarmed man

[techbeck]

with 99% of printers on the market your either printing a one use zip gun, or still need a source to buy a barrel to finish the firearm. 

 

Plastic barrels.  Just need the materials.  Not the smartest thing in the world tho

[Memphis]

Plastic barrels.  Just need the materials. 

 

Example of a plastic barrel than can be made with a easily obtainable mass production 3d printer that can last for more than 10 shots before falling apart. Cite a source and back that claim. Max I have seen is 8 shots and thats with the possibility that it will explode on the second shot and it was with a 1000usd plus printer.

[TMYW]

Wont work here, not because of the idea in and of itself being crazy, but because the legal gun owners here WILL NOT comply and many have stated their violent intentions for anyone who would enforce such a thing (take them from my cold dead hands) thereby making it impossible. Its kind of a sad situation really.

 

IOW, the legal gun owners themselves are deranged enough in their love of guns to be potential criminals--all the more reason to make gun ownership more difficult. As I stated before, it starts with education. Teach 'em in their youth not to be chicken-######, and eventually the only people left holding guns will die off due to old age. Then we WILL be able remove the guns from their cold, dead hands. As ctebah states, all it takes is time.

[techbeck]

Example of a plastic barrel than can be made with a easily obtainable mass production 3d printer that can last for more than 10 shots before falling apart. Cite a source and back that claim. Max I have seen is 8 shots and thats with the possibility that it will explode on the second shot and it was with a 1000usd plus printer.

 

Drugs are not easy to manufacture either and the equipment can be really expensive to do so.  Costs isnt a problem and if people wanted to, they  could steal the material.  May be easier to steal a gun but the thing about plastic guns, they are not detectable by metal detectors either.  And all someone needs to kill someone is one shot.  Doesnt have to be durable.

 

Fact of the matter is, and my point, is that is it easier for people to get and make weapons.  Also more ways to do so.  And there is new tech in ammo for 3rd printer guns that the shell contains the blast, not the barrel of the gun itself.

 

These things will become easier when tech improves.

[Memphis]

IOW, the legal gun owners themselves are deranged enough in their love of guns to be potential criminals-all the more reason to make gun ownership more difficult. As I stated before, it starts with education. Teach 'em in their youth not to be chicken-######, and eventually the only people left holding guns will die off due to old age. As ctebah states, all it takes is time.

 

 

Ive said it before and I will say it again, I will gladly stop carrying a firearm the day a viable plan that can actually be implemented happens to actually remove guns from society in America. We just had a shooting in an arbys near my house last week, and my nephew almost got killed in the clackamas shooting. I will carry my 1911 because I feel I have to, but I would rather not feel the need to.

Drugs are not easy to manufacture either and the equipment can be really expensive to do so.  Costs isnt a problem and if people wanted to, they  could steal the material.  May be easier to steal a gun but the thing about plastic guns, they are not detectable by metal detectors either.  And all someone needs to kill someone is one shot.  Doesnt have to be durable.

 

Fact of the matter is, and my point, is that is it easier for people to get and make weapons.  Also more ways to do so.  And there is new tech in ammo for 3rd printer guns that the shell contains the blast, not the barrel of the gun itself.

 

These things will become easier when tech improves.

 

 

Easier is relative, its easier to manufacture than it was ten years ago sure, but it is infinity easier to obtain a once legally owned firearm illegally. That's why in tightly controlled countries, 3d printed guns have only rarely been discovered because even if you finish the gun, good luck on obtaining ammo, and you certainly aren't printing the bullet/gunpowder with a cheap 3d plastic printer

[techbeck]

Iand you certainly aren't printing the bullet/gunpowder with a cheap 3d plastic printer

 

Gunpowder, no but I can see materials developing in time to easily make bullets.  Tech is improving all the time.  And I know people who load their own bullets.  Not like gunpowder is hard to get.

[DocM]

Because people like you have voted against registration systems to help keep track of them. Gun owners like you are why many revile us.

We have the registration of pistols, purchase permits and mandatory background checks.

with 99% of printers on the market your either printing a one use zip gun, or still need a source to buy a barrel to finish the firearm.

A .380 can be fired through a properly sized iron gas pipe. Strong enough to work in an SMG. No rifling necessary d nice they're close combat weapons.

Even if that weren't the case a metal lathe is cheap (Harbor Freight) and you can use whatever steel you need.

[Memphis]

We have the registration of pistols, purchase permits and mandatory background checks.

A .380 can be fired through a properly sized iron gas pipe. Strong enough to work in an SMG.

 

Maybe some states have some basic frameworks for registration, but its convoluted and not universal. Up until recently in Washington, transferring a gun was as simple as handing it over. I obtained my 1911 just by being handed it as a birthday present for example.

[DocM]

Our system requires a state background check to get a purchase permit at the local PD. Costs $10. This is waived if you have a concealed permit as you've already been through the system. Now you do the federal paper and check at purchase. Same for private sales.

[TMYW]

Gunpowder, no but I can see materials developing in time to easily make bullets.  Tech is improving all the time.  And I know people who load their own bullets.  Not like gunpowder is hard to get.

 

If it really were that easy, then there's no point in purchasing manufactured guns or ammo for legal use either. (Who says you can't make your own gun and then register it for legal use?) Yet, people still choose to purchase guns from Wal-mart because it's easier.

We have the registration of pistols, purchase permits and mandatory background checks.

 

What about purchases at gun shows or second-hand from a private owner?

[Jim K Global Moderator]

I have zero empathy for the victims lifestyle, but that doesn't excuse the cop of murder.

 

I'd respectfully disagree that the cop committed murder.  The druggy made, to what the cop appeared, a threatening move.  If he had done what the cop instructed...he wouldn't have been killed.  Simple as that.  You follow the commands of a cop...disagreeing or acting in a threatening manner will get you no where.  There are other avenues to plead your innocence...arguing/threatening a cop isn't one of them.  Do what they say and live another day.

 

The last couple of pages of this thread have gone way off topic...probably belongs in the gun rights section.

[Memphis]

I'd respectfully disagree that the cop committed murder. The druggy made, to what the cop appeared, a threatening move. If he had done what the cop instructed...he wouldn't have been killed. Simple as that. You follow the commands of a cop...disagreeing or acting in a threatening manner will get you no where. There are other avenues to plead your innocence...arguing/threatening a cop isn't one of them. Do what they say and live another day.

The last couple of pages of this thread have gone way off topic...probably belongs in the gun rights section.

The cops where called once at a facility I worked at. Veteran with mental issues and ptsd had broken the jaw of a medication nurse and barricaded himself in his room. The responding cop while trying to talk him down had his weapon reached. The cop took him down and then continued talking the patient down. The point is, every attempt before shooting the suspect should be made.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

The cops where called once at a facility I worked at. Veteran with mental issues and ptsd had broken the jaw of a medication nurse and barricaded himself in his room. The responding cop while trying to talk him down had his weapon reached. The cop took him down and then continued talking the patient down. The point is, every attempt before shooting the suspect should be made.

 

Once again, as with your other scenario ... the two situations can not be compared.  

[techbeck]

If it really were that easy, then there's no point in purchasing manufactured guns or ammo for legal use either. (Who says you can't make your own gun and then register it for legal use?) Yet, people still choose to purchase guns from Wal-mart because it's easier.

 

 

 

Never said it was easier to make your own guns   I said it was becoming easier and easier to do so. 

 

Anyway, this topic has run its course.  And I need sleep.  Nighty night 

[TMYW]

I'd respectfully disagree that the cop committed murder.  The druggy made, to what the cop appeared, a threatening move.  If he had done what the cop instructed...he wouldn't have been killed.  Simple as that.  You follow the commands of a cop...disagreeing or acting in a threatening manner will get you no where.  There are other avenues to plead your innocence...arguing/threatening a cop isn't one of them.  Do what they say and live another day.

 

The last couple of pages of this thread have gone way off topic...probably belongs in the gun rights section.

 

Calling the guy a "druggy" doesn't strengthen your case any. You know nothing about the details: how "threatening" the move was, whether or not the was physically capable of complying, whether or not the guy could have even comprehended the instructions to comply, etc. You're giving the cop a lot more latitude than he deserves simply because you think, "Ooh, he takes drugs! Who cares if he got killed? I'm going to believe everything the cop says." Giving this much latitude to cops, even if they are eventually found to be justified in their actions, gives cover to cops that really are dirty. For some reason, I don't believe you feel that there are many dirty cops out there.

[Jaybot]

People that have done meth:

 

John F Kennedy

Robert Downey Jr

Andrei Agassi

Eddie Van Halen

Britney Spears

 

But you're right, they're all terrible people who contributed nothing to society and deserve to be shot dead. I mean, how can Robert Downey Jr's parents be proud of him when he once did meth?

 

Just thought I'd correct you, Britney has never done meth before. 

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Calling the guy a "druggy" doesn't strengthen your case any. You know nothing about the details: how "threatening" the move was, whether or not the was physically capable of complying, whether or not the guy could have even comprehended the instructions to comply, etc. You're giving the cop a lot more latitude than he deserves simply because you think, "Ooh, he takes drugs! Who cares if he got killed? I'm going to believe everything the cop says." Giving this much latitude to cops, even if they are eventually found to be justified in their actions, gives cover to cops that really are dirty. For some reason, I don't believe you feel that there are many dirty cops out there.

 

Doesn't matter what I think...nor am I "making a case".  

 

What does matter is that if a cop instructs you to do something...you comply and work out the details later.  Can you argue that?

 

This is irrelevant..: "For some reason, I don't believe you feel that there are many dirty cops out there."

[TMYW]

Doesn't matter what I think.  What does matter is that if a cop instructs you to do something...you comply.  Can you argue that?

 

You do your best to comply. If you are not physically able to or not in a mental state to do so, it's not license for the cop to kill you.

 

I decided to re-read the article, and these excerpts lead me to be believe that this cop has no business being a cop, let alone a patrol cop.

 

 

In the footage, Billings Police Officer Grant Morrison can be seen sobbing on the hood of a police cruiser after shooting 38-year-old Richard Ramirez three times during a traffic stop.

...

According to the AP, Morrison shot and killed another man during a traffic stop after the man "reached for something that was later determined to be a BB gun." He was cleared of any wrongdoing in that case..

 

In both cases, he alleges that the guy he killed was "reaching" for something. You don't need to fatally shoot somebody (3 times) to stop them from reaching for a weapon.

 

Yes, being a cop is tough and requires quick thinking, but there are millions of cops that can make such decisions their entire careers without ever killing somebody who didn't deserve to be killed. Cops always get the benefit of the doubt in court, and that's why they absolutely need to be held to a very high standard. Based on his history, I think this guy was below the standard, and that's why he's been (rightfully) pulled off his assignment.

 

 

Morrison was placed on paid administrative leave immediately after the shooting and has since been assigned to a task force investigating prescription drug crimes.

 

 Let him go after pill poppers. Maybe more people will live.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

You do your best to comply. If you are not physically able to or not in a mental state to do so, it's not license for the cop to kill you.

 

 

In both cases, he alleges that the guy he killed was "reaching" for something. You don't need to fatally shoot somebody (3 times) to stop them from reaching for a weapon.

 

 

 

For the first part:  If you choose to partake in illegal drugs which inhibit your mental state then you are responsible for how you are able to respond to the cops and the outcome.  His decision ... the cop didn't give him the meth.

 

For the second part:  Did the cop instruct him to "reach for something"?  No?  Then don't reach for anything!  I'm not sure why it is hard to comprehend?

[farmeunit]

Calling the guy a "druggy" doesn't strengthen your case any. You know nothing about the details: how "threatening" the move was, whether or not the was physically capable of complying, whether or not the guy could have even comprehended the instructions to comply, etc. You're giving the cop a lot more latitude than he deserves simply because you think, "Ooh, he takes drugs! Who cares if he got killed? I'm going to believe everything the cop says." Giving this much latitude to cops, even if they are eventually found to be justified in their actions, gives cover to cops that really are dirty. For some reason, I don't believe you feel that there are many dirty cops out there.

They were looking for him because of another shooting to begin with.  Why would they NOT think he might have a gun?  You can't take one fact and use that in your defense.

[TMYW]

For the first part:  If you choose to partake in illegal drugs which inhibit your mental state then you are responsible for how you are able to respond to the cops and the outcome.  His decision ... the cop didn't give him the meth.

 

For the second part:  Did the cop instruct him to "reach for something"?  No?  Then don't reach for anything!  I'm not sure why it is hard to comprehend?

 

So the cops have license to blow you away for not complying because you're too drugged up to do so? And that makes it your fault? Wow, just, wow.

 

And what exactly did he reach for? It turns out it was nothing. The cop THOUGHT he was reaching for something (allegedly).

[TMYW]

They were looking for him because of another shooting to begin with.  Why would they NOT think he might have a gun?  You can't take one fact and use that in your defense.

 

Uh, no. He (allegedly) recognized him as somebody involved in another shooting. Where does it say that he actually was the person involved in another shooting? You can recognize anybody as being anybody else. It doesn't mean that you're correct in your recognition.

 

Again, it doesn't take 3 fatal shots to stop somebody from reaching for a weapon. And I'm pretty damn certain the other 3 passengers made some sudden motions after he unloaded three bullets into this guy. Yet, the cop was observant enough and a good enough shot not to hit anybody else.

[Memphis]

Never said it was easier to make your own guns   I said it was becoming easier and easier to do so. 

 

Anyway, this topic has run its course.  And I need sleep.  Nighty night 

 

violent vet with mental health issues and ptsd lunging unarmed at a cop? yeah it can be compared.

[DocM]

If it really were that easy, then there's no point in purchasing manufactured guns or ammo for legal use either. (Who says you can't make your own gun and then register it for legal use?) Yet, people still choose to purchase guns from Wal-mart because it's easier.

Make a market and it'll be filled. I thought we learned that lesson with Prohibition etc.?

What about purchases at gun shows or second-hand from a private owner?

In Michigan,

FFL = Federal Firearms License dealers.

All gun show sales by FFL dealers have to do the same National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) check as a sale at a gun store.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics

Private long arm sales (rifle or shotgun) are unregulated, same as Federal law.

CO2 powered pellet pistols (not .177 caliber steel BB or Airsoft) are a firearm and require the same procedures as a regular handgun.

No out of state handgun sales.

Pawn shops, second hand stores etc. cannot take in a pistol. Only FFL's.

In MI private handgun sales have to go through an FFL dealer using the same NICS procedures.

[techbeck]

violent vet with mental health issues and ptsd lunging unarmed at a cop? yeah it can be compared.

Think you quoted the wrong person