Is Windows 10 stable enough for a main OS?

[PGHammer]

T3XAS said:

 While you're at it, grab a copy of Office 2016.

 

Been there; did that.  On 8.1 and both installs of 9926 (Pro and Enterprise).  Thanks to 2013, I was able to banish all my non-x32 add-ins and plug-ins, so I could migrate with confidence.

 

I haven't had so much as ONE backward-compatibility issue with any of my 2013-sourced data files.  None.

 

However, Jared's point is quite valid - if you MUST have official support, keep the beta and earlier software in a VM.  (However, how do you test beta games for compatibility in a VM?)

[deck]

Depends on what you're doing, really.  Win10 has been stable for me, only really having trouble streaming .mkv files to my Xbox (and that's more of a feature issue).  

 

I did have issues when I installed Win10 as an upgrade to Win8.  I later did a clean install (using the recovery option in Win10) and since then things have been really good.  

 

No crashes.

No odd screens.

Some broken/not ready features.

 

I don't play a huge amount of games (Steam and Fez work, though).

[MikeM97]

A TP would never be a stable main OS and yes , just because it's TP . 

In case you certainly want to , do it on your own risk .

[DevTech]

In a technical or scientific field, all knowledge should be testable as much as possible.

 

In the last few years there has been an incredible buidup of socially based memes that substitute for testing things (that boring testing stuff that is the "science" part of "computer science")

 

The release of new software versions has a long history of versioning names and number schemes which a long time ago seemed to have some industry wide agreed upon semantic meaning in words like "alpha" and "beta" but now these terms are just food for marketing.

 

The example given of pre-release Windows 7 being more stable than "realeased" versions of Windows was certainly true in my experience as well. To only way to sort through this issue is to test it and see. It really is just that simple other than the testing and roll back process if needed is not as easy as using a mindless social meme such as "never use software until the first service pack"

 

On the plus side, newer versions of software contain bug fixes and feature improvements that can lead to significant productivity gains for an individual or an organization. On the negative side, newer versions can have new bugs worse than the old bugs and also result in productivity loss due to training requirements. And for operating systems, people's and organizations experience can vary greatly in either direction depending on the specific hardware used.

 

In every case there is a testable matrix of gain versus loss that is very specific to every individual and organization. In the case of Windows 7 I am fairly confident that the huge number of enterprise I.T. departments that held off roll-outs due to "wait for the first service pack" cost their organizations very real millions of dollars in net productivity loss.

 

So it is always a reaonable question to wonder if the current Windows 10 version will yield a net gain to a specific person on specific hardware with a specific workflow. Gathering anecdotal user experience from the community is not unreasonable to see if the testing effort here is worth his time.

[DevTech]

To offer my own personal anecdotal experience, I have upgraded many computers from Windows 7 to Windows 8. I haven't bothered with 10 yet simply because I have yet to see any Windows 10 feature that seems useful.

 

When they finally get around to implement the full Windows 7 transparency in Windows 10, then I will upgrade as that is a useful productivity improvement for me.

 

One thing to watch out for is that Windows 8/10 does not run well on all of the hardware that runs Windows 7 and people that don't realize this may be screaming about stability when actually they have hardware incompatability.

 

In general Windows 8 (and therefore 10) will run on older hardware with less RAM than Windows 7 but there is a chance of issues with video drivers and motherboard BIOS that permit the O/S to install and run like everything is fine but then there comes a long series of strange crashes and BSODs. The BIOS issues in my case are all connected with Power Management and the O/S can be made stable in these cases by disabling all the Power Management features in the CPU.

 

In the case of previous generation AMD and NVIDIA video cards that exhibit this issue (some don't), I have tried every possible video driver combination and for these particular cards there is no solution but to purchase a new card.

[xendrome]

To offer my own personal anecdotal experience, I have upgraded many computers from Windows 7 to Windows 8. I haven't bothered with 10 yet simply because I have yet to see any Windows 10 feature that seems useful.

Apples to Oranges

 

When they finally get around to implement the full Windows 7 transparency in Windows 10, then I will upgrade as that is a useful productivity improvement for me.

Transparency is a productivity improvement?

 

One thing to watch out for is that Windows 8/10 does not run well on all of the hardware that runs Windows 7 and people that don't realize this may be screaming about stability when actually they have hardware incompatability.

99% not true. unless you are speaking about an unsupported CPU

 

In general Windows 8 (and therefore 10) will run on older hardware with less RAM than Windows 7 but there is a chance of issues with video drivers and motherboard BIOS that permit the O/S to install and run like everything is fine but then there comes a long series of strange crashes and BSODs. The BIOS issues in my case are all connected with Power Management and the O/S can be made stable in these cases by disabling all the Power Management features in the CPU.

Strange BSODs and crashes are directly related to issues with your hardware, not the OS. Power management settings on the CPU have NOTHING to do with how stable your system is. You've got hardware problems

 

In the case of previous generation AMD and NVIDIA video cards that exhibit this issue (some don't), I have tried every possible video driver combination and for these particular cards there is no solution but to purchase a new card.

As said previously, you've got hardware problems.

[nosense]

I hope MS don't go crazy with transparency. I hate how transparency works with OSX Yosemite, very distracting and does not add to productivity.

[The_Decimator]

I hope you're okay with Microsoft monitoring how you use [read: what you do with] Windows for feedback purposes, since this is a preview build and all.

[Ian W]

I hope you're okay with Microsoft monitoring how you use [read: what you do with] Windows for feedback purposes, since this is a preview build and all.

Speaking of which . . .

Privacy Statements for Windows 10 Technical Preview.

[DevTech]

xendrome: it's not clear if you actaully read my post or not even though you cut n paste bits of it.

 

I stated that I have upgraded a lot of computers from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and on a small number of them I encountered some specific issues that originally appeared to be random instablility for which I discovered a work around and offered this as something to watch out for when upgrading older equipment.

 

1. Apples etc - I was presenting full disclosure that I had no direct hardware experience with Windows 10 but in that respect they are far more similar to each other than Windows 7.

 

2. Productivity - Transparency is a small but noticeable productivity improvement for me that could very well be of no consequence for others. I notice that there is kind of a "Grand Canyon" type divide in "power users" where some people are constantly opening and closing applications as part of their workflow so that there is only one (or a very small number) window open at any time and then there is the other extreme where people like to keep possibly hundreds of windows open. I am in the "hundreds" camp and use a staggered and layered arrangement across multiple monitors to form a mental cue for my workflow. The transparent edges and top of each window in Windows 7 provides a subtle but significant to me improvement of visually comprhending and viewing my workflow environment by essentially giving a few extra pixels of visibility per window of what is peeking out from behind.

 

3. 99% - I have no idea what percentage of hardware issues are both "tweakable" and blamed on the O/S but I have found two specific cases and have shared this information so that if someone such as the topic poster runs into it, he can fix it and keep on going.

 

4. Strange BSODS - I have described 2 issues that can be located in a toxonomy other than "hardware problems" but like many classifactions that is subjective. A problem that can be fixed by a BIOS setting may be hardware or may be just a crappy BIOS but either way the problem is gone. I have described some very specific issues that are unique in my experience to Windows 8 and later when running on older equipment. The usefullness of this information to anyone will obviously quicky vanish into history.

 

5. Video card incompatibility - your comment is a tad exasperating. I have discovered that in some specific cases that Windows 8 has issues with video cards that work just fine with Windows 7. In previous versions of Windows it was just a matter of finding the right driver or running in some compat mode. So although it is correct to say that a video card issue is a "hardware problem," the information content in that comment appears to be zero. If at some future point in time Google coughs up this forum on a search to some user upgrading from Windows 7, it is possble he can try antother video card in his system to prove his computer is ok, that windows 8/10 is just fine and that his video card is also just fine as well if it is in any Windows 7 computer. That is a solution to something however rare the case might be and has an information content greater than zero.

 

nosense: Microsoft has certainly made many mysterious decisions but it is transparently obvious that they can restore their transparency code and make it a selectable user option just like a million other Windows settings and they have gone on record with an intention to do this in some manner as yet unknown.

[technord]

No

[nosense]

 

 

nosense: Microsoft has certainly made many mysterious decisions but it is transparently obvious that they can restore their transparency code and make it a selectable user option just like a million other Windows settings and they have gone on record with an intention to do this in some manner as yet unknown.

Transparency will be coming to task bar and start menu, which have been already spotted. IMO transparency needs to stay away from apps and windows border(aero).

[xendrome]

xendrome: it's not clear if you actaully read my post or not even though you cut n paste bits of it.

 

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your comments, since you seem to think i "cut n paste bits of it" when  in fact I replied DIRECTLY to your post word for word without cutting or pasting any of it, it is complete as you posted it. See your post here: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1248918-is-windows-10-stable-enough-for-a-main-os/?view=findpost&p=596776054

[DLow]

Been running it on my home media server for quite some time with 0 issues.

[xendrome]

Been running it on my home media server for quite some time with 0 issues.

 

Media server is a limited use system, so having it do one function isn't the same as running it as a main OS that you do everything on.

[DLow]

Media server is a limited use system, so having it do one function isn't the same as running it as a main OS that you do everything on.

 

 

Well i should re-phrase what i said, i was running it for quite a while on my personal machine before i ended up switching over to a mac and coverting my PC into a home server.

 

But i had very little bugs, A few compatiblity issues but other than that ran pretty decent.

[DevTech]

Transparency will be coming to task bar and start menu, which have been already spotted. IMO transparency needs to stay away from apps and windows border(aero).

 

I have described what is from my point of view an extremely useful productivity use-case for transparent window borders. A work around is to set the windows border size to 1 pixel but the fuzzy wider transparent border of Windows 7 is still a superior visualization aid in a complicated workflow based window arrangement.

 

Whatever your preference might be, it should be just exactly that - a preference that you set in the Control Panel or registry etc and not something that is mandated to 1.3 billion Windows users because you personally don't like it.

 

The strength of Windows has always been it's tweakability and just because Sinofsky had a strange case of Apple-envy doesn't mean we have to exist in a world of no user settings.

 

As an off-topic musing, I have often wondered if Apple envy had farther reaching effects on the design of things. Because of the "App Revolution" many software developers purchased a Mac to run both OSX and Windows since owning a Mac was a unique Apple restriction on publishing to their App Store. The trendy Mac was the 13" Mac Air which has a small 1400 x 800 resolution on a small 13" screen which in effect required the whole "Less is More" silly school of software design and lack of options becuase you could barely see much information at once on such a device! I suspect it would have a strong influence on your design approach compared to using a powerful Windows computer with 4 27" monitors at 2560x1440 resolution...

[sinetheo]

I have described what is from my point of view an extremely useful productivity use-case for transparent window borders. A work around is to set the windows border size to 1 pixel but the fuzzy wider transparent border of Windows 7 is still a superior visualization aid in a complicated workflow based window arrangement.

 

Whatever your preference might be, it should be just exactly that - a preference that you set in the Control Panel or registry etc and not something that is mandated to 1.3 billion Windows users because you personally don't like it.

 

The strength of Windows has always been it's tweakability and just because Sinofsky had a strange case of Apple-envy doesn't mean we have to exist in a world of no user settings.

 

As an off-topic musing, I have often wondered if Apple envy had farther reaching effects on the design of things. Because of the "App Revolution" many software developers purchased a Mac to run both OSX and Windows since owning a Mac was a unique Apple restriction on publishing to their App Store. The trendy Mac was the 13" Mac Air which has a small 1400 x 800 resolution on a small 13" screen which in effect required the whole "Less is More" silly school of software design and lack of options becuase you could barely see much information at once on such a device! I suspect it would have a strong influence on your design approach compared to using a powerful Windows computer with 4 27" monitors at 2560x1440 resolution...

 

Give Apple credit where it is due. As locked down as their products are they at least are very very detailed and consistent with great aesthetics and quality.

 

I liken Apple to a cruise ship. A very nice one. Free food, shows, rooms, entertainment and glamor. Everything is produced and directed by the cruiseline while you are an island/prison at sea.  However, you are still stuck on a ship at sea and if you do not like the food or shows ... well hmm. A pc is like a road trip. It is what you make of it and requires work on the driver. Not so glamorous or can be if you find a decent hotel and take the initiative? Take your pick?

 

Windows 7 was the first version of Windows that was gorgeous and blown me away so much I left Linux for good. In many ways it was both Apple like and PC like.

 

I think MS is going in circles with its artwork and direction with no where to turn. The reason is they already had what worked. Now they do nto know what to do with themselves after decades of work that became 7 at their height.

[WinMacLin Guy]

I have it installed on one of my main PCs which is not in production at the moment. I would not install it on a production machine at this point because I have had the mandatory updates mess certain things up for me to the point that I needed to perform a fresh install; one of the updates prevented me from launching any Win32 apps and metro apps were pretty broken as well, and I needed to do a fresh install to get things working again (oddly doing the update the second time did not create any issues). I would say wait.

 

 

I think MS is going in circles with its artwork and direction with no where to turn. The reason is they already had what worked. Now they do nto know what to do with themselves after decades of work that became 7 at their height.

 

UX design takes time, like you said they are starting over again. If you look at the preview builds for any version of Windows that shook up the visual style (namely Chicago [Win95], Neptune/Whistler [XP], and Longhorn [Vista]) you would see that the icon sets and themes changed several times before being finalized; Windows 7 was not a version that changed the visual style  and it simply reused nearly everything from Vista which is why everything looked nice from the preview builds. It will take time, and a lot more redesigns.

[DevTech]

Give Apple credit where it is due. As locked down as their products are they at least are very very detailed and consistent with great aesthetics and quality.

 

I liken Apple to a cruise ship. A very nice one. Free food, shows, rooms, entertainment and glamor. Everything is produced and directed by the cruiseline while you are an island/prison at sea.  However, you are still stuck on a ship at sea and if you do not like the food or shows ... well hmm. A pc is like a road trip. It is what you make of it and requires work on the driver. Not so glamorous or can be if you find a decent hotel and take the initiative? Take your pick?

 

 

Something is whatever it is with all its aspects. Using an analogy takes all the complexity out of an item to illustrate some viewpoint into it.

 

So we can liken Apple to a pretty maze in an English country estate with lots of confusing twisty little passages and only one true way to find the boring lifeless center. You can ask a Maze Genius at the clubhouse how to navigate the maze and be told you are stupid for not finding it intuitive and obvious.

 

We can liken Windows to a penthouse suite in Las Vegas with a fancy remote control with buttons to make your environment just the way you want it. You become the King not Steve Jobs.

 

And so on.

 

From an aesetic point of view Windows 7 can be tweaked to make at as subjectively pleasing as anyone would wish from minimalist to gadget freak. (such as: http://www.deviantart.com/browse/all/customization/skins/windows7/visualstyle/?order=9)

 

I'm not sure at the core of things if it is really wise to glorify the lack of choice to the individual that Apple represents. It somehow influenced SInofsky to copy the idea like it was a hit tune and remove many choices that people really enjoyed in Windows. All it really needed was an Options Panel:

 

1. Give me the Sinofsy Mix

2. Make it boring like a Mac

3. Make it super boring like Windows 2000

4. Just give me the Windows 7 look already.

5. Send me to the advanced options for my own personal work of art.

[GotBored]

Been running the Windows 10 preview for over a month, haven't had a single issue.

 

Its very stable works for the things I need it for so it has become my main OS.

 

I went from Win 7 to Win 8, tried Win 8 for a few months and didn't like it and went back to Win 7. Win 8.1 came out and I tried that one for a few months also but ultimately moved back to Win 7 and am now using Win 10 and am happy with it so far.

[Mockingbird]

From my experience with build 9926, Hell no!

 

Sky high CPU usage makes my laptop toasty which would be great if I live in Russia, but I don't.

[PGHammer]

Hardware monitoring is part of the End-User Licensing Agreement for these preview builds (not even just the current one, but the original one, when the Windows Insider program launched).

 

Further, for all the tweakage that Windows 7 and earlier offered, you were STILL basically stuck with the Start menu as the sole program launcher.  (Serious question - Could it be that the support for tweakability elsewhere may have been to cover up THAT lack?)

 

And there IS transparency by default in 10036 - the default in my case with 10036 is the Royal Purple Taskbar and mini-Start. 

[MikeM97]

Some of Romania's local gamers say that the build 10049 is pretty good for games like LoL , DOTA 2 , FIFA World and so on ...

It all depends on his choice .

[Noir Angel]

Except for my daily game (DC Universe Online) having connectivity issues, the Tech Preview would be my main OS today on my desktop - it already is on my notebook.  Everything else application and gaming-wise works as well or better than Windows 8 (or any other version of Windows back to XP).  Expecting perfect DirectX compatibility in a VM is silly - for ANY OS, beta or otherwise.  (That is true of even Citrix WinFrame, which is the closest thing I have seen from anybody to a gaming-ready virtualization platform.)  The issues with Windows 10 are the same ones that Windows 8.x has been nibbled to death by - aesthetics and the lack of the 7 or earlier Start menu. If you aren't het up over aesthetics and improved stability AND performance is important, not only could you do worse than the Technical Preview, you likely already are.

 

Yeah, who wouldn't want constant hardlocks and blue screens. To get the best stability I've seen people saying they have to use Windows 8.1 WDDM drivers which basically defeats that purpose altogether.

 

It's called a "preview" for a reason... because it's not meant for daily use. Not to mention the fact that it's basically one giant piece of spyware that sends back the content of your documents. Not a great thing if you hold data you want kept secure.