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'Black' NAACP Leader outed as white woman

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sidroc    1,199

Oral histories won't get you very far and genetic testing is more of a snake oil than anything...

 

My family is direct descendents of slaves. They were sold and transferred around like cattle without care given to records of to who or to where...

 

There is a need to come to terms with the reality of Slavery and that one of its unfortunate byproducts is the severed historical and cultural connection of those who were forced to suffer in it. Like so many of its ill effects this is but another one...

 

My point simply is that the story of descendents of slavery is a unique story. A lot like an orphan, we are a people without a cultural and historic home other than that of slavery. We have as much of a connection of Africa as the rest of humanity. We all trace our origins to Africa. We don't have the connections to distinct nations and cultures because Slavery did a great job of severing those connections.

 

 

How is genetic testing snake oil? Obviously it wont tell you which African country you came from as migrations within Africa and constantly shifting borders will make it moot, but it will tell you which group in africa most currently matches your DNA which, while not exactly revealing the country due to what I previously mentioned, an give you a solid starting point. Given how much European blood most African Americans have, you may even find yourself to be more genetically European than African and might try to connect with both sides of your heritage. Either way, it will give you an idea. You know, even without those connections, you have the ability to do what they do. I know a Kenyan here on a runners scholarship (that covered no more than a pell grant would and while he had a place to stay it was on condition he hold a job making his situation not much different than an African american). He did not even speak English on a daily basis when he got here. He managed to Pull a 4.0 and has his degree in a flat 5 years. I met many many Africans with a similar story.The reason I compare migrant africans to local Africans is that they have to put up with the same racists the along with a foreign culture and yet still succeed at much greater levels. Tell me, whats stopping a significant chunk of Africans here from doing the same? I believe its culture and while I believe a significant chunk of this problem of culture is a direct result of jim crow, at some point, it still must change no matter who is responsible. 

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DocM    16,344

It's not in the interest of many black (and non-black) leaders to actually solve the problems of black and other people in similar situations.

If these problems were ever actually solved and blacks mainstreamed anywhere near as well as, for example, Asians said "leaders" would lose their power bases and be out of their cushy jobs.

Nope, just keep 'em down & agitated so they're on the hook to so-called progressives for successive election cycles.

Channelling Charles Durning,

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don't-

I've come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,

cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

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MorganX    1,044

It's not in the interest of many black (and non-black) leaders to actually solve the problems of black and other people in similar situations.

If these problems were ever actually solved and blacks mainstreamed anywhere near as well as, for example, Asians said "leaders" would lose their power bases and be out of their cushy jobs.

Nope, just keep 'em down & agitated so they're on the hook to so-called progressives for successive election cycles.

Channelling Charles Durning,

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don't-

I've come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,

cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

 

The only problem with that theory, if you're not being sarcastic, is that blacks are pretty much mainstream. They're just also pretty disadvantaged in a lot of areas, particularly inner city. There's a half-black president and huge black middle-class and interracial relationships are so common they're not even a thing.

 

No other culture or ethnicity can be equitably compared to the African American experience. It is unique and complex. And really not that bad at the moment, unless you happen to be poor and uneducated. But I hear being white and poor and uneducated isn't the greatest experience either. ;>

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MorganX    1,044

You make it sound like African Americans are the only victims of slavery in the world.  Sorry, but slavery has existed for as long as man has existed, and it will continue to exist for many years yet.  Being the descendant of slaves doesn't make you special, it just makes you one of billions.

 

 

 

Actually he's an American. And American Slavery and the resulting society is Americas concern. Apex's allusion to the complete disconnect from African history is also key. But way to deep for this forum, it's advanced college level material.

 

You do know some 100 years prior to the end of American slavery, importing new slaves was outlawed, do you know why? Forums are simple and most take a simple view, but it's actually quite complex. Humans, humanity, and human behavior, not for everyone, though everyone has a simple opinion about it.

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MorganX    1,044

it still happens even today, it might not be on the same level as what we have come to know about slavery but it does continue to be part of our world and will most likely will continue up to the point the earth becomes inhabitable, by which point man would have colonised another exo plaent or perhaps mars and the cycle will continue, as long as there is money to be made man will always find the cheapest way to get the task done.

 

 Particularly sex slavery. Human trafficking is an epidemic.

 

To understand the African American experience and their behavior and conditions (for many of them) today, you have to understand Slavery, at an academic level tbh. But certainly African Americans haven't been slaves for some time, though they've only had Civil Rights for one good generation.

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DocM    16,344

The only problem with that theory, if you're not being sarcastic, is that blacks are pretty much mainstream. They're just also pretty disadvantaged in a lot of areas, particularly inner city.

>

That's precisely who I'm talking about. Them and the Hispanics and poor whites preyed on by those they're politically beholden to. If their problems are solved there's no need for their "benefactors." No power base enhancement in that.

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MorganX    1,044

That's precisely who I'm talking about. Them and the Hispanics and poor whites preyed on by those they're politically beholden to. If their problems are solve there's no need for their "benefactors." No power base enhancement in that.

 

right on.

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+LogicalApex    1,747

How is genetic testing snake oil? Obviously it wont tell you which African country you came from as migrations within Africa and constantly shifting borders will make it moot, but it will tell you which group in africa most currently matches your DNA which, while not exactly revealing the country due to what I previously mentioned, an give you a solid starting point. Given how much European blood most African Americans have, you may even find yourself to be more genetically European than African and might try to connect with both sides of your heritage. Either way, it will give you an idea. You know, even without those connections, you have the ability to do what they do. I know a Kenyan here on a runners scholarship (that covered no more than a pell grant would and while he had a place to stay it was on condition he hold a job making his situation not much different than an African american). He did not even speak English on a daily basis when he got here. He managed to Pull a 4.0 and has his degree in a flat 5 years. I met many many Africans with a similar story.The reason I compare migrant africans to local Africans is that they have to put up with the same racists the along with a foreign culture and yet still succeed at much greater levels. Tell me, whats stopping a significant chunk of Africans here from doing the same? I believe its culture and while I believe a significant chunk of this problem of culture is a direct result of jim crow, at some point, it still must change no matter who is responsible. 

It is snake oil because it can't give you an answer any more solid that what we already know about the origin of the majority of slaves. This is primarily due to the recent ability to capture and compare genetic data. We can take a snapshot of today's populations and suggest what location and group you have similarities with, but this ignores the realities of colonialism on the African Continent and migration (forced and otherwise). It also ignores forced breeding by slave owners to further muddle up the gene pool for the descendents of slaves.

 

It is far more beneficial for the descendent of slaves to understand the uniqueness of their situation. For the people in my shoes, we need to define our story, culture, and heritage. These things are happening and will continue to happen. We're not too far from the Civil Rights movement and good race relations are a recent reality. Yet everyone looks at the descendents of slaves much like they do a super hero in a movie. Healing should have be instant! Why are they still injured? They must be lazy...

 

Comparing immigrant populations to non-immigrant populations will always showcase huge disparities between the drive within those populations. The majority of people aren't one's who will pull off amazing feats to overcome their situation. As a result, the number of people who immigrate to different nations (or even move within the same nation in search of opportunity) are a very small and unique subset of the population. If you think this is unique to people of African decent you may learn a lot about reading about why the US transitioned from an "open borders" nation that welcomed all immigrants without fail to a "closed border" nation. The white population at the time heavily pushed back against the constant wave of European immigrants willing to work very hard to advance themselves while the native born white population's "laziness" left them largely in the dust.

 

But, possibly, MorganX is right my discussion may have moved to a depth too academic for this place.

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sidroc    1,199

It is snake oil because it can't give you an answer any more solid that what we already know about the origin of the majority of slaves. This is primarily due to the recent ability to capture and compare genetic data. We can take a snapshot of today's populations and suggest what location and group you have similarities with, but this ignores the realities of colonialism on the African Continent and migration (forced and otherwise). It also ignores forced breeding by slave owners to further muddle up the gene pool for the descendents of slaves.

It is far more beneficial for the descendent of slaves to understand the uniqueness of their situation. For the people in my shoes, we need to define our story, culture, and heritage. These things are happening and will continue to happen. We're not too far from the Civil Rights movement and good race relations are a recent reality. Yet everyone looks at the descendents of slaves much like they do a super hero in a movie. Healing should have be instant! Why are they still injured? They must be lazy...

Comparing immigrant populations to non-immigrant populations will always showcase huge disparities between the drive within those populations. The majority of people aren't one's who will pull off amazing feats to overcome their situation. As a result, the number of people who immigrate to different nations (or even move within the same nation in search of opportunity) are a very small and unique subset of the population. If you think this is unique to people of African decent you may learn a lot about reading about why the US transitioned from an "open borders" nation that welcomed all immigrants without fail to a "closed border" nation. The white population at the time heavily pushed back against the constant wave of European immigrants willing to work very hard to advance themselves while the native born white population's "laziness" left them largely in the dust.

But, possibly, MorganX is right my discussion may have moved to a depth too academic for this place.

I really appreciate this answer and I agree with most of what you have said. I also agree that healing is not instant and that racism is alive and well. I just think that their is a culture problem in the black community and I by no means blame them for this as circumstances beyond their control helped Forge them. But their is a reason beyond racist cops and others with these attitudes that blacks are not catching up at this point and it's not genetic. It also can be fixed and I do not mean by "just getting over it" either.

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+LogicalApex    1,747

I really appreciate this answer and I agree with most of what you have said. I also agree that healing is not instant and that racism is alive and well. I just think that their is a culture problem in the black community and I by no means blame them for this as circumstances beyond their control helped Forge them. But their is a reason beyond racist cops and others with these attitudes that blacks are not catching up at this point and it's not genetic. It also can be fixed and I do not mean by "just getting over it" either.

For sure there are cultural problems within the Black community. The Black community still has yet to fully realize that we, as a group, can control our own story and destiny. We're not under oppression anywhere near what existing prior to the Civil Rights Era. But learning this takes time and will eventually come to pass. Much like a soldier coming back from war or a battered spouse finally being freed from her abuser. It will be a while before they can come to understand that their new situation is a lot different than their previous one.

 

For the descendents of slaves this may be taking longer, if it is, as there is a lack of a historical "story" to serve as a guiding light. The soldier has himself before his military career to remember and act as his guide back to normality... The battered spouse has her life before the abuser to remind her of a stronger and unbroken self which will serve as her guiding light. The descendents of slaves have to walk into this alone.

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sidroc    1,199

For sure there are cultural problems within the Black community. The Black community still has yet to fully realize that we, as a group, can control our own story and destiny. We're not under oppression anywhere near what existing prior to the Civil Rights Era. But learning this takes time and will eventually come to pass. Much like a soldier coming back from war or a battered spouse finally being freed from her abuser. It will be a while before they can come to understand that their new situation is a lot different than their previous one.

For the descendents of slaves this may be taking longer, if it is, as there is a lack of a historical "story" to serve as a guiding light. The soldier has himself before his military career to remember and act as his guide back to normality... The battered spouse has her life before the abuser to remind her of a stronger and unbroken self which will serve as her guiding light. The descendents of slaves have to walk into this alone.

Thank you for a non argumentive discourse. With all this said, I hope this change occurs sooner than later. Both of my sister's are adopted and black and it got a little tough to hear their black friends get mad at them and say they acted white simply for articulated speech and college desires. I know that this is not something that is more than a stereotype of blacks, but for me watching my sister's it was very real and definitely effected how I look at these issues.

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Fergdog    26

I don't think you understand genetics very well... :p

I definitely don't, not sure which point was wrong though. I actually do think there is a difference between peoples behavior somewhat hardwired due to different levels of testosterone etc. but that doesn't seem like something PC friendly people would want to admit. If it's the white fetus thing, that definitely sounds very dumb but not as dumb as a white kid thinking hes black.

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DocM    16,344

Good grief....

Link....

Rachel Dolezal to NBC: "No Biological Proof" My White Parents Gave Birth to Me

Rachel Dolezal is calling into question whether the white couple who raised her are indeed her biological parents.

Dolezal, who resigned her post as NAACP chapter president Monday amid controversy that she is a white woman pretending to be black, told NBC Nightly News' Savannah Guthrie that she has never been shown solid evidence proving Larry and Ruthanne Dolezal are biologically related to her.

"Up to this point, I know who raised me," Dolezal said in a segment that aired Tuesday. "I haven't had a DNA test. There's been no biological proof that Larry and Ruthanne are my biological parents."

Guthrie pointed out that there is a birth certificate with her name on it, to which Dolezal replied, "I'm not necessarily saying that I can prove they're not [my biological parents], but I don't know that I can actually prove they are. The birth certificate is issued a month and a half after I'm born. Certainly, there are no medical witnesses to my birth."

"I definitely am not white," Dolezal continued. "Nothing about being white describes who I am. ... I'm more black than I am white."

Larry and Ruthanne spoke to MSNBC Monday, with Larry saying they supported Dolezal's decision to step down from the NAACP. "I pray that she will take the steps necessary to embrace her true personal identity and not feel compelled any longer to be false or malicious toward her family," Ruthanne said.

>

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sidroc    1,199

Good grief....

Link....

 

 

 

Shes crazy. I cant accept the concept of being born the wrong race. Gender sure, race doesn't make a single bit of scientific sense. I can totally understand identifying with another races historical ethnicity or culture as many do this, but not claiming you were born trapped in the wrong race.

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COKid    873

How much of her 15 minutes does this nutjob have left? 

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LakeRat    53

She does love to play the victim.

 

She sues Howard University in 2002 for discrimination against her as a white woman. Fast forward to 2015, and she has filed 9 hate crime complaints as a 'black' woman.

 

I don't know if she is just crazy, or loves being the center of attention.

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compl3x    6,290

Good grief....

Link....

 

 

Perfect example of how someone can be an educated and functioning human while still believing in things that are false and delusional.

 

 

 

"I definitely am not white," Dolezal continued. "Nothing about being white describes who I am. ... I'm more black than I am white."

 

 

 

Isn't this entirely the problem? The idea you can describe someone based on their skin colour? Isn't this entirely the basis of racism in the first place? How is someone more black when they are white or vice versa? Seems stupid and the kind of view which wouldn't be welcome at an organisation trying to remove negative stereotypes.

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FloatingFatMan    17,965

I wonder if she realises, or even cares, how insulting and hurtful those comments are to her parents?

 

Were I her dad, I'd respond with "Fine, if you don't believe we're you're parents, we're not any more".  *Disowned* *Removed from will*

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Gerowen    1,207

Reminds me of this guy.

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compl3x    6,290

I wonder if she realises, or even cares, how insulting and hurtful those comments are to her parents?

 

Were I her dad, I'd respond with "Fine, if you don't believe we're you're parents, we're not any more".  *Disowned* *Removed from will*

 

 

If she is indeed truly delusional she mightn't know nor care.

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DocM    16,344

From today's 'Gag Me' file

1) her reps are promoting a reality show

2) there's a sex tape

:rofl:

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theyarecomingforyou    10,425

She sues Howard University in 2002 for discrimination against her as a white woman. Fast forward to 2015, and she has filed 9 hate crime complaints as a 'black' woman.

You don't have to be a member of a protected class to be protected under discrimination laws, at least in the UK:

 

What is

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DocM    16,344

The Citizen's Advice Bureau is for the UK. This isn't the UK. Things are different here. People are less tolerant of fraud and PC BS, in case you haven't noticed.

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sidroc    1,199

The Citizen's Advice Bureau is for the UK. This isn't the UK. Things are different here. People are less tolerant of fraud and PC BS, in case you haven't noticed.

 

As crazy as this woman is, from what I understand their is precedent for choosing your racial identity on legal forums. I cannot remember the court case, but a university ruled a student not black and therefor not eligible for affirmative action programs because the student was white according to the school. The court said something to the extent that race is decided on an individual basis. I remember this case because I knew someone who got excited about it and started to put "black or Hispanic" on all his applications hoping to get priority job placement.

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COKid    873

SEATTLE, June 17 (Reuters) - Former Washington state NAACP leader Rachel Dolezal, who drew national attention after being accused of lying about her racial background, has violated ethics rules while heading a police oversight commission, a senior city official said on Wednesday.

 

Investigators hired by the city of Spokane to probe a whistleblower complaint found Dolezal had publicly named citizens who made complaints against police officers, in violation of confidentiality rules, City Council President Ben Stuckart said.

 

"There were multiple occasions at open public meetings, that were recorded, where names of complainants were discussed in the open and they should have been confidential," Stuckart said, calling on her to resign from the commission.

 

Dolezal, 37, resigned this week as president of the Spokane chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, a leading civil rights organization, amid reports she was falsely claiming to be African-American.

 

Dolezal has told U.S. media she identifies as black, and the controversy has triggered a national debate over the bounds of racial identity and self-identification.

 

She was raised in a home with adopted black siblings and enrolled at historically black Howard University, according to a white Montana couple who told U.S. media they are her biological parents.

 

Dolezal did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

 

The ethics allegations against Dolezal, and two other commission members, stem from the findings of two independent lawyers hired by the eastern Washington city to investigate an April 16 whistleblower complaint by a Spokane employee. The report was published on Wednesday.

 

In addition to the confidentiality issues, the probe found Dolezal engaged in workplace harassment as head of the Office of Police Ombudsman Commission, Stuckart said, without elaborating.

 

The Spokane City Council will meet on Thursday to discuss whether to remove Dolezal from the post, and whether to file an ethics complaint against her with another commission, he said.

 

A city human rights commission also called for Dolezal to resign on Tuesday, and Eastern Washington University, where she taught Africana studies, said she was no longer employed there.

 

Apart from the confidentiality breach, the lawyers found the whistleblower faced intimidating, hostile and offensive behavior from Dolezal and other commissioners.

 

Separately, the city is investigating whether Dolezal violated city rules when she identified herself as Caucasian, Native American, and black in her application for the job.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-naacp-leader-dolezal-found-to-have-violated-ethics-rules-spokane-lawmaker/ar-AAbIWyj?ocid=ansnewsreu11

 

The truth always comes out. Always. She seems to need some serious mental health treatment.

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