[OFFICIAL] Windows 10 Insider Program

[George P Global Moderator]

If you guys are talking about the windows phone images, that's what it could look like with transparent live tiles which are rumored to be coming to Windows 10. Remember the news about them on the Xbox One dashboard? It's be a nice option to have, would open it up to more personalization.

 

As far as IE goes, we know 12 will have a totally new UI, not just a tweaked one. The html5 spec is now finally locked down from what I remember so they can and should be adding in more support than in previous updates. Rumors of extensions have been floating around but nothing solid yet, they're doing a good job of keeping it under lock and key for now.

 

I think with windows 10 and IE12 we'll get one version of the browser this time, but with a UI that can scale/change between desktop and tablet/phone usage. It won't be the two different browsers we get in windows 8, even though they both use the same trident engine.

[Studio384]

I think with windows 10 and IE12 we'll get one version of the browser this time, but with a UI that can scale/change between desktop and tablet/phone usage. It won't be the two different browsers we get in windows 8, even though they both use the same trident engine.

Microsoft already confirmed that that wouldn't be the case in Windows 10 anymore. We get one version, based on WinRT, and that's it. For the engine. It's actualy Edge now (in IE12), not Trident.

[George P Global Moderator]

Microsoft already confirmed that that wouldn't be the case in Windows 10 anymore. We get one version, based on WinRT, and that's it. For the engine. It's actualy Edge now (in IE12), not Trident.

I don't remember that but it works out for the best in the end.

[Mugwump00]

I don't remember that but it works out for the best in the end.

 

Anyone know if they're working on extensible URL parsing, like Android has (IOS too I'll presume?)?

 

My #1 gripe with the WP/W8 experience is that it doesn't matter how good (or not) core web-replacement apps are (e.g. YouTube, Tapatalk etc.), URLs pertaining to these 'sites' always open the site in IE, not any platform-tailored app installed (Android detects these and offers a 'Chrome or x? prompt' .  The exception seems to be Wikipedia URLs, oddly, which open the native app (so the mechanics are there, somewhat).

 

Obviously we've seen no changes to Modern in W10TP - fingers-Xd they've recognised this.  Then, WP apps that can do multimedia actions on a schedule (i.e. Alarm)....

[Studio384]

I don't remember that but it works out for the best in the end.

A quote from the IE blog:

@Dan/Yannick: As you saw in other Windows 10 announcements yesterday and today, universal apps and the unification of the mouse/keyboard and touch environments are big themes for Windows 10. We're working to move the IE experience in a consistent direction. The removal of the second browser is just the first of many steps on that path. Stay tuned!

The zSpartan app is the next IE version, and it's a WinRT based app, as there won't be a second browser, the next IE is going to be the WinRT version.

[PotatoAlchemist]

A quote from the IE blog:

The zSpartan app is the next IE version, and it's a WinRT based app, as there won't be a second browser, the next IE is going to be the WinRT version.

That is definitely an awesome news, and indeed the step in the right direction. It'll be interesting to see how it will work for devices of all inputs and sizes, especially that not only it's going to be one IE for tablets or laptops/desktops (the latter with or without touch), but also for the Windows phone version too. Feature parity on all devices would create a great user experience. Also, cool devname. :D

[DeadEndAccount]

That is definitely an awesome news, and indeed the step in the right direction. It'll be interesting to see how it will work for devices of all inputs and sizes, especially that not only it's going to be one IE for tablets or laptops/desktops (the latter with or without touch), but also for the Windows phone version too. Feature parity on all devices would create a great user experience. Also, cool devname. :D

 

It should also mean that moving to WinRT that all the built in applications will finally high-DPI aware rather than the mess that current exists right now. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing a lot of under the hood changes occurring with explorer given that it appears that instability probably comes down to changes occurring underneath it all.

[+Zlip792 MVC]

Microsoft already confirmed that that wouldn't be the case in Windows 10 anymore. We get one version, based on WinRT, and that's it. For the engine. It's actualy Edge now (in IE12), not Trident.

Edge is not engine, its mode.

[Studio384]

Edge is not engine, its mode.

Another Microsoft quote:

we are enabling our new interoperability focused Edge rendering engine for 10% of Windows Insiders

Also, the UAS mentions "Edge/12.0" and no longer mentions Trident. That's the only IE reference in the new UAS. Edge is an engine.

[Dot Matrix]

Sweet. I was assuming IE would be a modern app only because it would need to scale to tablets and phones now at this point.

[spaceelf]

I kinda wonder how they'd do any plugins with it as such.

[PGHammer]

Sweet. I was assuming IE would be a modern app only because it would need to scale to tablets and phones now at this point.

Also, how many folks (even on desktops) view Web pages windowed?  Developing Web pages for a single resolution got website administrators in hot water merely with Windows 9x/NT.  Developing a separate site for mobile is NOT the same as developing a non-full-screen version of a site - ask Neowin's own administrator that question.  Needed plug-ins (such as Flash) would likely continue to be built-in - for security reasons (that is the case with ModernUI IE today), as opposed to being modular (like desktop IE today).  And even IE becoming Modern-only won't exactly roadblock the use of other browsers - the third-party browser community is thriving; how many non-Google versions of Chrome (and non-Mozilla variants of Gecko) are floating around the Internet today, just for Windows?  It's not the Windows marketplace of even five years ago.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Also, how many folks (even on desktops) view Web pages windowed?  

 

I know I do ... a lot!  

[Dot Matrix]

I view pages either full screen or snapped. This is why I am a huge fan of responsive design. I HATE pages that force vertical scrolling due to unresponsive layouts.

[George P Global Moderator]

I kinda wonder how they'd do any plugins with it as such.

They can do "extensions" using the same type of API the charms use, like the share charm and so on.  So when you start IE those will also start up in their own sandboxes with a secure API that will pass data to them etc.

[PGHammer]

I know I do ... a lot!  

You also have a larger desktop than most - true?  Exception - not the rule; which is why I asked the question.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

You also have a larger desktop than most - true?  Exception - not the rule; which is why I asked the question.

 

Not sure...on my primary notebook (1920x1080 ... 15inch screen) I'll run the browser windowed a lot (like I'm doing now).  Desktop...no brainer(dual 23 inch).  I do not find myself running browsers windowed on my el cheapo travel notebook (1368x768 or something).  Though I will if I'm working with another program (not ideal though because of the resolution)

 

At work...same thing...I'll run the browser windowed all the time.  Usually with Word/Excel or some other program up that I'm working with.  Some websites for work I have (to save tme) to run windowed for data comparison...for example my civilian timecards where they have to enter their time into two separate websites (silly...I know) which have to exactly match (easier said than done considering the sites are not similar).

 

I do believe I missed the meaning behind your original comment.  Are you saying most do not run browsers windowed...and that they should just be full screen?  

[Kazama Levi]

I am happy with the way Win 10 is going so far.

I'd also say that MS is heading in the right direction with Windows 10, it's already a great improvement over Windows 8.

One thing they still really need to do though is adding a simple way to turn off this tile crap entirely, it definitely has no place on the desktop.

 

P.S. I just thought of something. OSX is the "idiot friendly" OS (no offense to anyone, I mean it's made for any kind of user), Linux is for power users, no matter how they try to make it "user friendly", they can't dumb it down to that level. And Windows is somewhere in the middle, trying to please everyone. Tough job, no wonder that there will always be unhappy people...

"Linux is for power users" is certainly right, but I'd definitely say that Windows is the "idiot friendly" OS, as they went to great lenghts in many regards to dumb things down, especially with Windows 8. Windows is totally unsuited for power users, e.g. until not too long ago it didn't even have a proper shell, which only recently came with "Power Shell" (which still isn't all that great though).

OS X is somewhere in the middle (even though some things are also pretty dumbed down), but like Linux it's based on Unix, which gives power users much more possibilities.

 

Microsoft already confirmed that that wouldn't be the case in Windows 10 anymore. We get one version, based on WinRT, and that's it. For the engine. It's actualy Edge now (in IE12), not Trident.

That's also a great improvement. Trident was just plain awful, especially in terms of standards compatibility.

[PotatoAlchemist]

Is this whole "To tile, or not to tile" debate still going on? This discussion really needs to be moved to a more appropriate thread that can be used for debate purposes, while for the time being, this thread is used to discuss the improvements and additions that are being added through the technical preview builds, including the leaked ones.

And not about whether Windows 10 should or not replicate a very basic Windows 95 desktop metaphor whatsoever. Windows doesn't get the desktop treated the same way for Windows 10, like how it was before Windows 8, and it's not going to head back either. Tiles are a signature feature that came to PCs as well as phones before that, practically it's what makes it distinctive on its own.

Time to resume with the discussion of the thread that HAS something to do with what's coming next in Windows 10!

[+Zlip792 MVC]

Another Microsoft quote:

Also, the UAS mentions "Edge/12.0" and no longer mentions Trident. That's the only IE reference in the new UAS. Edge is an engine.

 

Quoting Microsoft IE Blog:

 

 

 

Introducing the ?living? Edge document mode

The cornerstone of this update to IE is the ?Edge? mode platform?a new document mode designed with interoperability at its core. 

 

 

 

Given the sheer volume of changes in Edge mode, we?re going to progressively roll out the new mode by choosing a random set of Windows Insiders to get Edge while the rest remain in 11 document mode.

 

Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/11/11/living-on-the-edge-our-next-step-in-interoperability.aspx

 

UA String for Windows Phone 8.1 Update (aka GDR1)

 

 

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows Phone 8.1; ARM; Trident/7.0; Touch; rv:11; IEMobile/11.0) like Android 4.1.2; compatible) like iPhone OS 7_0_3 Mac OS X WebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1700.99 Mobile Safari /537.36

 

Source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh869301%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

 

For desktop, they do changed UA String and removed Trident Engine but I still believe its Trident engine rather than Edge Engine, Although its confusing, I would try to reach out for other information.

[BajiRav]

I'd also say that MS is heading in the right direction with Windows 10, it's already a great improvement over Windows 8.

One thing they still really need to do though is adding a simple way to turn off this tile crap entirely, it definitely has no place on the desktop.

 

"Linux is for power users" is certainly right, but I'd definitely say that Windows is the "idiot friendly" OS, as they went to great lenghts in many regards to dumb things down, especially with Windows 8. Windows is totally unsuited for power users, e.g. until not too long ago it didn't even have a proper shell, which only recently came with "Power Shell" (which still isn't all that great though).

OS X is somewhere in the middle (even though some things are also pretty dumbed down), but like Linux it's based on Unix, which gives power users much more possibilities.

 

That's also a great improvement. Trident was just plain awful, especially in terms of standards compatibility.

I remember people calling Windows 98,2000,XP,Vista,7,8 "dumbed down". I guess you are part of the same bandwagon for Windows 10. Welcome, you will find some friends here for sure.

Powershell isn't exactly "recent". It works pretty well for those who know how to use it.

[George P Global Moderator]

PowerShell was first released back in 2006 for XP SP2, if that's recent then my sense of time must be shot to hell.

 

There's a preview of version 5.0 out tight now for those who want to try it, probably what will ship with Windows 10 next year.

[nosense]

Nope..

 

Linux=Hobbiest.(tech\server minded)

Windows=Power user.(tons of workstation apps)

Osx=Dumb down basic use.(lack of apps)

I'd also say that MS is heading in the right direction with Windows 10, it's already a great improvement over Windows 8.
One thing they still really need to do though is adding a simple way to turn off this tile crap entirely, it definitely has no place on the desktop.
 

"Linux is for power users" is certainly right, but I'd definitely say that Windows is the "idiot friendly" OS, as they went to great lenghts in many regards to dumb things down, especially with Windows 8. Windows is totally unsuited for power users, e.g. until not too long ago it didn't even have a proper shell, which only recently came with "Power Shell" (which still isn't all that great though).
OS X is somewhere in the middle (even though some things are also pretty dumbed down), but like Linux it's based on Unix, which gives power users much more possibilities.
 

That's also a great improvement. Trident was just plain awful, especially in terms of standards compatibility.

[PotatoAlchemist]

PowerShell was first released back in 2006 for XP SP2, if that's recent then my sense of time must be shot to hell.

 

There's a preview of version 5.0 out tight now for those who want to try it, probably what will ship with Windows 10 next year.

Interesting. So the preview was released for it during this April, along with Windows Management Framework 5.0. Which is also when they started adding support for OneGet and the support for the Chocolatey package repository. In this case, PowerShell 5.0 will indeed be a part of Windows 10.

[PGHammer]

Interesting. So the preview was released for it during this April, along with Windows Management Framework 5.0. Which is also when they started adding support for OneGet and the support for the Chocolatey package repository. In this case, PowerShell 5.0 will indeed be a part of Windows 10.

WPS was indeed made part of Windows as of XP's rather infamous Service Pack 2; it was designed as a replacement for the DOS-style batch file and a scripting language that would be supported on all versions of Windows.  Where WPS took off is on the server/administrative side of Windows (most of the books about WPS have to do with scripting for servers) despite it not having gone away on the desktop - remember, the desktop and server flavors of Windows have been based on the same code since Vista/Server 2003R2.  The inclusion of WPS in Windows 10 addresses the two flavors of Windows where WPS is conspicuous by its absence - Windows Phone and Xbox.  Windows Phone needs it for the same reason servers and desktops do - administrative use.  (I have to wonder what XBOX will do with it, though.)