• Sign in to Neowin Faster!

    Create an account on Neowin to contribute and support the site.

Sign in to follow this  

Has Windows 10 redeemed Microsoft?

Recommended Posts

Zagadka    4,101

Actually, Cortana is one of the things that has disappointed me the most (Edge leads that pack). I haven't been able to make any use of the voice control, and most search stuff doesn't require that (though the search inbuilt to the menu is pretty nice). I haven't been able to give commands or accomplish processes. Granted that part of that is having loud background noise, but that isn't an uncommon situation. I have converted over to Bing, though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osiris    837

To those of you whinging about how Windows 10 has turned out - You are more than welcome to stay with your favourite OS, be it 7, XP or whatever. Let the rest of us move forward without having to hear you.

Privacy issues and telemetry - Most if not all software companies do it. Hardware companies too. Are you going to carry on using your Apple, Microsoft or Android phone / tablet when you realise that they also send telemetry data to the manufacturer AND your phone service provider?

Did anyone mention Apple or Google here?  No, so stop with the strawman comparisons, this is about MS and W10, I don't give a flying toss what google is up to and its irrelevant to the purpose of this thread.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Fahim S.    1,093

Warning!!! Long post below.

Microsoft hasn't redeemed itself, because it didn't have a need to.

Backward compatibility is something which is a 'best efforts' exercise.  Typically the reason that things don't work is because APIs have been deprecated or the software is doing something naughty (Microsoft's software is equally as guilty of this at times).  Either way, the software needs to be updated by the vendor.  Your games don't work? That's not Microsoft's problem, and the problems with Windows has stemmed from the amount of legacy compatibility they have tried to maintain.  I, personally, am more than happy for them to machete out legacy compatibility for a leaner, more modern OS.

Look and feel - if I was to take a guess, I would estimate that there are close to 10,000 icons in Windows and there is a cost-benefit thing here.  If an icon exists deep in the Operating System which is looked at once a day across the whole world (telemetry helps, you know!), Microsoft has to make a judgement call as to whether to throw resources as fixing the icon that never gets seen (or indeed, nobody cares about), or fix a real bug that prevents smooth operation of the OS - if it was a democracy (which it isn't, but more on that later), I know what I would be voting for.  Is it ideal? No.

Control panel vs Settings - it's a legacy thing again.  Replacing control panel, which is stooped in decades (yes decades!) of legacy isn't an easy operation.  You have choices here - never replace Control Panel which frankly sucks (my opinion), doesn't support touch very well (fact), and did I say sucks? (my opinion), or replace it over a couple of releases?  Again, not ideal but I know where I would cast my vote.

Automatic updates - this is a tough one.  As a 'power user', I like control of what happens on my machines. As someone who 'supports' machines which are used by users who are anything but 'power users', I want them to have no control over their machine. The worst thing is there are too many users who regard themselves as 'power users', but frankly aren't. So, as Microsoft, do you benefit the masses or the few? Not ideal, but being in their shoes, I can appreciate the route they have taken.  Like UAC, I think we'll see Microsoft move away from a completely heavy handed approach as time goes on (although I sincerely wish they hadn't with UAC).

Telemetry and privacy - There is nothing new here. Telemetry is good so that they know what people do and where to focus on fixing it.  There isn't a single one of these that can't be switched off, but at the same time do you surface these or switch them off by default? My answer is no - because Mr 'Thinks he is a Power User but really isn't' will not just switch them off for himself, but also for every other computer he supports making the telemetry somewhat useless to Microsoft.

Disk space - the naive comment about disk space is just plain wrong.  Every release of Windows since Vista has taken less space than its predecessor.

Touch vs Mouse/Keyboard UIs - again, a tough balance to draw.  It would be very easy if all machines were one or the other, but there are far too many in betweens.  Tablet with detachable keyboard, laptops with screens that flip, big-screen UI which have neither, phones, tablets that only have touch, desktops with touch screens, regular desktops and laptops with no touch capability.  You can't draw a clear line between stuff that needs to support touch and suff that doesn't.  Every version since (and including XP) has supported touch in some guise - since Windows 8 they are starting to make it work.  They still have a way to go, but they are getting there.  Reality is, every desktop OS maker is going the same way, whether it is Google adding Android stuff in Chrome OS, Apple adding iOS stuff to OS X, or Canonical adding touch related stuff to Ubuntu.  They all realise the market is heading in that direction.

Start Menus vs Screens, Tiles, and all that jazz - This follows on from the need for Touch support.  On the majority of my machines, except my desktop, a full Start Screen works better for me.  They all have relatively small screen (biggest is 11.6"), my desktop has a 1440P screen, a menu which is about quarter of the screen works betters.  How do you build something that is consistent, useful, interactive and informative to support all the use-cases they need to support.  It's a tough design challenges that requires compromises to be made.

In summary: Sometimes I feel I am in the minority.  I actually think the direction that Microsoft started taking in 8 and have continued on with 10, is the right one. Windows is a huge piece of software, and I have never had to manage a software project of such proportions, but it is a huge undertaking and simply can't be transformed in one go.  It is a transitional OS, as much as Microsoft won't admit it, but in my opionion a good step forward.  I such software development projects you have to compromise, some people will hate you for it (you may even hate yourself for the compromises you are forced to make).  But as a customer you vote with your feet and your wallet - nobody is forcing you to update or even use Microsoft's OSs.

Ultimately Microsoft owe you nothing.  It is their product to evolve how they see fit.  Don't like it? Go use something else.  If enough people do that, they will notice the drop in sales and change their direction to get those customers back.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FunkyMike    1,862

Actually, Cortana is one of the things that has disappointed me the most (Edge leads that pack). I haven't been able to make any use of the voice control, and most search stuff doesn't require that (though the search inbuilt to the menu is pretty nice). I haven't been able to give commands or accomplish processes. Granted that part of that is having loud background noise, but that isn't an uncommon situation. I have converted over to Bing, though.

 

Yer Cortana has a long way to go. One thing that they will benefit from is the collection of all this voice data for Cortana from all the launch regions. It should really contribute and improve the service in the long run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Anarkii    2,255

Microsoft did need redeeming with the steaming pile of poo that was Windows 8. There is no denying that.

Windows 10 takes everything that was great about Windows 7 and improves on it, and brings the focus back to the desktop where more than 80% of Windows users are.

Now that Windows 10 is a service, and we have input over the direction of future Windows builds - I hope it stops the past cycle of Good/Bad/Good/bad that made the company in the past. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Osiris    837

Windows 10 takes everything that was great about Windows 7 and improves on it

Yeah and goes backwards on a stack of key things that Windows 8 did great for the tablet experience.

I agree the desktop is still where its at but if they had taken a more balanced approach than throwing everything out and bumrushing things with Edge etc, the overall experience would be a lot better for more people.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7Dash8    560

No, Microsoft hasn't redeemed itself.

Windows 8 failed primarily because it had an inconsistent UI, forced metro integration, and removed the sleek and efficient Start Menu.

Windows 10 replaces one form of UI inconsistency with another, still has forced metro integration, and is still missing the sleek and efficient Start Menu. To that they've now added a reduction in user control and greater invasion of privacy.

Microsoft says they're listening to users, but they're not. The majority of users made it clear with Windows 8 that they don't want metro apps, they don't want tiles and they want greater control over their OS.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LimeMaster    15,601

That thread title is nasty. :/ Windows 8 is a good OS, and didn't require Microsoft to redeem themselves.

As for Windows 10, now that its a service (free for most): it'll get feature, app updates & fixes that will hopefully correct many of the issues mentioned before. So I think Windows 10 can only get better. We just need give Microsoft a little push, so the feedback is heard.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    12,611

Except unlike previous versions of the OS...you know the ones where you had control over simple things like your updates and driver installs...when you turned off the telemetry options they stayed off.  To fully disable telemetry in the home and pro editions you need to disable services and make registry changes, only Enterprise will fully turn off telemetry via the GPE.  I don't call that transparency or business as usual anymore than I do the revised terms of service.

Don't move goalposts and start discussing automatic updates.

As for editing the registry, what exactly is it that you think gpedit is doing? Hint: Its making registry edits.

You absolutely did have to do this in previous versions of Windows too, using regedit if you didn't have gpedit. They just called it by a another name:

Error Reporting.

You don't even need to shut services down. I disabled telemetry and the services recommended to shut down are NOT EVEN RUNNING. I am guessing I am about to hear a conspiracy theory about how MS must be shutting them down after use to avoid detection.

 

So the the world still turns, you still need regedit to bypass something an OS version doesn't support, and gpedit is still a glorified regedit gui frontend.  Sounds like the same Windows tweaking we have seen for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    12,611

No, Microsoft hasn't redeemed itself.

Windows 8 failed primarily because it had an inconsistent UI, forced metro integration, and removed the sleek and efficient Start Menu.

Windows 10 replaces one form of UI inconsistency with another, still has forced metro integration, and is still missing the sleek and efficient Start Menu. To that they've now added a reduction in user control and greater invasion of privacy.

Microsoft says they're listening to users, but they're not. The majority of users made it clear with Windows 8 that they don't want metro apps, they don't want tiles and they want greater control over their OS.

Power users might be saying that, but the average (read: the most common Windows user) is not saying that.  The average consumer wants things done for them, not a tweakfest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7Dash8    560

Power users might be saying that, but the average (read: the most common Windows user) is not saying that.

 

Yeah, I bet the average user just loves the bland UI, loves metro apps, loves tiles, and loves the new Start Menu.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    12,611

 

Yeah, I bet the average user just loves the bland UI, loves metro apps, loves tiles, and loves the new Start Menu.

You have no way of saying otherwise other than anecdotal experience.  The ones who don't will stick with 7, and still not want a tweakfest.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey_Wtf    12

I didn't like the overall look of Windows 10 at first but it has grown on me. I think it looks more consistent than Windows 8.1. And I like the direction that Microsoft is going. Blurring the lines between mobile and desktop isn't a bad thing. Also, I'm excited about DirectX 12 and the improvements it'll bring over DX11.

Anyway, my only gripe at the moment is the use of legacy icons. I wish Microsoft would replace every single icon with an updated version. Either that or allow people to use custom icons on an OS-wide level. I think custom icon packs for Windows would be very popular.

A bit fussy about trivial things :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Woelfel    135

 

Windows 8 failed primarily because it had an inconsistent UI, forced metro integration, and removed the sleek and efficient Start Menu.

You really called the Start Menu "sleek"? *sigh*

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    12,611

 

You really called the Start Menu "sleek"? *sigh*

There was definitely nothing sleek about the start menu in 7, LOL.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rigby    1,577

Has Windows 10 redeemed Microsoft?  No, they never needed redeeming.

I know, Windows 8 was a huge success.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
adrynalyne    12,611

I know, Windows 8 was a huge success.

Depends on your benchmark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+JHBrown    13,229

No, they have not redeemed themselves as far as their operating system is concerned.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ikzelf    4

Microsoft did need redeeming with the steaming pile of poo that was Windows 8. There is no denying that.

Windows 10 takes everything that was great about Windows 7 and improves on it, and brings the focus back to the desktop where more than 80% of Windows users are.

Now that Windows 10 is a service, and we have input over the direction of future Windows builds - I hope it stops the past cycle of Good/Bad/Good/bad that made the company in the past. 

"Windows 10 takes everything that was great about Windows 7 and improves on it"

My goodness !

This must be meant as a joke, right ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ikzelf    4

Depends on your benchmark.

The best one I ever read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dashel    542

There was definitely nothing sleek about the start menu in 7, LOL.

I agree, pre-XP was slicker.

Monetization, not privacy is my main concern.  I agree the p2p was sneaky and should have defaulted to local network.  The update issues can happen to any OS, like the two that bombed Office on Win7 last Dec.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sava700    322

I think so...but they have work to do to fix the things they've changed such as windows updates not being able to turn things off or turn down updates and see file sizes of them. Edge isn't all that great I think, its fast but kinda difficult to setup along with the predetermined default OS unless you pay attention (most don't) during the install/upgrade.  Many other things I'm sure that should be altered to give the customer more preference and easier methods to make those prefs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tompkin    153

Power users might be saying that, but the average (read: the most common Windows user) is not saying that.  The average consumer wants things done for them, not a tweakfest.

What the average user wants is no change and no problems.

What their getting with Windows 10 is both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeChipshop    3,458

Nope, because they didn't need to 'redeem' themselves any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chrisj1968    1,417

After having reinstalled windows 8.1, I now am in control of my updates. I hated the Home version (of 10) which is a kin to Russian Roullete. You're forced with updates but I've seen two stories in the last 2 days where Windows 10 updates have thrown users into precarious loops. I believe it was a install or uninstall loop. so to gain back my control and happiness with updates, I set my reinstall of Windows 8.1 to inform me of when updates are available but allow me to decide what to install. All in order to keep from inadvertantly installing a bad update that will mess up my mahcine. I don't know how I got the home edition of win 10 from the update, yes its free, that's NOT my contention. My contention is, Home is like someone pushing you down a hill on a scooter with no steering wheel. No control. no way to stop from being forced to install an update that has to be taken down by MSFT. Plus, my old games work again. I think it was DX12 that broke my old favorites. well, I'm happy with my games working.

as for Windows 10, in order to get edge or DX12, you HAVE to upgrade to 10 which is a dirty low down trick. I come to realize through reading tech forums that MSFT purposely ingrained DX12 and edge. I've been reading around MSFT doesn't plan on releasing edge for windows 8.1 nor DX12. So now I see what this is all about. /SMH

What of Windows 10 fails?

3 reasons why Windows 10 will fail

Edited by chrisj1968
clarifications

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.