adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Yes MS needed to redeem itself. why? because "if" windows 10 fails, this will be the 3rd failed OS in almost as many years. the sad part is, MS is a captured audience in that, there's no one who can compete at the moment against MS. never mind numbers 25 million out of almost 7 billion people isn't a lot. So yout think 7 billion people use computers? Heheh. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 No. There's no redeeming what they did with Windows 8 RTM and not listening. But they have recovered and struck back. The biggest thing is they listened to users complaints. Also, one thing they had forgotten, they're leveraging the PC Master Race in their gaming support and leveraging the Xbox ecosystem to boost the PC. ###### they should have done the first time around. Dashel 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadaaron Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 So yout think 7 billion people use computers? Heheh. There would be more computers than people in the world I'd say. I have 3 physical at home, also VM's and a work machine. There would be a huge amount of the population that have a work machine and a computer at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 There would be more computers than people in the world I'd say. I have 3 physical at home, also VM's and a work machine. There would be a huge amount of the population that have a work machine and a computer at home. We aren't talking about number of computers, we are talking about users. There are plenty of machines out there that won't even support windows 10. Ian W 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadaaron Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 We aren't talking about number of computers, we are talking about users. But isn't the 25 million the amount of copies installed on PC's. So then you're talking about 2 separate stats. If we're talking about people, maybe half that number of 25 million to get the actual user base of Windows 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc2k Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Your logic makes no sense. You want to rip on Windows 8, but what about the success of Windows 10? Why did people just upgrade 25+ million devices to Windows 10? Plenty of reasons that don't say anything about the quality of W10, reasons like nag screens, "free" upgrade and people wanting to try thing now that it's "finished" and probably OEMs preparing their new batch of devices. There's probably more than 1 billion Windows devices out there, and even if half are corporate PCs or too old to update, there's still a big chunk left. In conclusion, I'm not convinced it actually is successful yet. Can't wait for those monthly market share reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted August 13, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 Your logic makes no sense. You want to rip on Windows 8, but what about the success of Windows 10? Why did people just upgrade 25+ million devices to Windows 10? hmmm...wonder what the reason is? Starts with an "F" and ends with an "e". I was one of the 25 million...on one of my notebooks. Haven't dared placed it on my other three systems nor do I plan to anytime soon. It still very much looks like an Insider Preview not RTM...IMO. Though I have no doubt Windows 10 will be the highest adopted OS in history ... can you honestly tout 25 million upgrades without placing an asterisk by it? The interesting stats on success will start August of next year...when folks have to fork out money. Ironically, you still fail to acknowledge that Windows 8 was/is a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Perhaps, but 25 million was last week, so he is already working with aging stats. Lets use your example for a moment. How many of your VMs have separate licenses? Is your workstation even a version that qualifies for an upgrade? Every workstation in my company is an Enterprise version. On top of that, there will be very few businesses that upgrade within the first month of Windows 10 GA. So there may be a lot of machines, but I think we can both agree that there is probably nowhere near 7 billion machines eligible for upgrade. Those that aren't eligible will be slower to adopt, seeing how the average consumer goes OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadaaron Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Your logic makes no sense. You want to rip on Windows 8, but what about the success of Windows 10? Why did people just upgrade 25+ million devices to Windows 10? I know plenty of people that have installed it and reverted, people have installed it in a VM to test... Just because it's been installed on 25+ million does that makes it successful? Let's just say for this story that Windows 8(.1) is crap and Windows 7 is awesome. I buy a machine with Windows 8(.1) and I'm stuck with it.. Microsoft ask if I want to upgrade to Windows 10 and I do because I want to get away from the Windows 8(.1) to see if I like Windows 10 more but I would prefer just to go back to Windows 7... I install Windows 10 and it's better but I still like Windows 7 more... Does that make Windows 10 successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Plenty of reasons that don't say anything about the quality of W10, reasons like nag screens, "free" upgrade and people wanting to try thing now that it's final and probably OEMs preparing their new batch of devices. There's probably more than 1 billion Windows devices out there, and even if half are corporate PCs or too old to update, there's still a big chunk left. In conclusion, I'm not convinced it actually is successful yet. Can't wait for those monthly market share reports. We already know it is largely more successful than Windows 8 coming off the starting line. Past that, you are right, we must wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I know plenty of people that have installed it and reverted, people have installed it in a VM to test... Just because it's been installed on 25+ million does that makes it successful? Let's just say for this story that Windows 8(.1) is crap and Windows 7 is awesome. I buy a machine with Windows 8(.1) and I'm stuck with it.. Microsoft ask if I want to upgrade to Windows 10 and I do because I want to get away from the Windows 8(.1) to see if I like Windows 10 more but I would prefer just to go back to Windows 7... I install Windows 10 and it's better but I still like Windows 7 more... Does that make Windows 10 successful? I know plenty of people who wouldn't know how to revert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadaaron Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) I know plenty of people who wouldn't know how to revert Just because they don't know doesn't mean they can't find out or get someone else to look into it for them. How do you measure success on something that's free.. It's like those supermarket samples, everyone might take one, but how do you know anyone liked it?..... 25 million people took them though... Success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrynalyne Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Just because they don't know doesn't mean they can't find out or get someone else to look into it for them. How do you measure success on something that's free.. It's like those supermarket samples, everyone might take one, but how do you know anyone liked it?..... 25 million people took them though... Success. Well, that goes both ways though, right? It also doesn't mean they can find someone. Also I don't believe we were measuring revenue, but success with popularity. You can definitely get a feel for that with something that is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean B. Veteran Posted August 13, 2015 Veteran Share Posted August 13, 2015 hmmm...wonder what the reason is? Starts with an "F" and ends with an "e". I was one of the 25 million...on one of my notebooks. Haven't dared placed it on my other three systems nor do I plan to anytime soon. It still very much looks like an Insider Preview not RTM...IMO. Though I have no doubt Windows 10 will be the highest adopted OS in history ... can you honestly tout 25 million upgrades without placing an asterisk by it? The interesting stats on success will start August of next year...when folks have to fork out money. Ironically, you still fail to acknowledge that Windows 8 was/is a disaster. Windows 8 wasn't a disaster, the Start menu overhaul is what killed acceptance with the older generations who didn't understand it while the millennials loved it. Windows 10 brings that back while introducing the Live Tiles in a more user friendly way which is what should have happened with Windows 8 from the get-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadaaron Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Well, that goes both ways though, right? It also doesn't mean they can find someone. Also I don't believe we were measuring revenue, but success with popularity. You can definitely get a feel for that with something that is free. That's all create to say you can get a feel for that but that might be your feeling, it might not be my feeling... How do we measure that? It's all very subjective and there's really no evidence to say this OS is any more successfully than previous OS's, but we can agree to disagree. adrynalyne 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim K Global Moderator Posted August 13, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2015 Windows 8 wasn't a disaster, the Start menu overhaul is what killed acceptance with the older generations who didn't understand it while the millennials loved it. Windows 10 brings that back while introducing the Live Tiles in a more user friendly way which is what should have happened with Windows 8 from the get-go. Sure it is. So much so that Microsoft reversed course with many aspects ... to include highly publicizing the return of the start menu (though it is gimped). Windows 8x sits around 16% after almost 3 years which is about the same as Vista (7 had around 40% after three years). So yes, Windows 8x was/is a disaster. I think it is very safe to say that Windows 8x will practically become nonexistent now that 10 is out....while 7 will still linger for a long time to come. I do agree with you on the last part of your sentence. Windows 10 is what Windows 8 should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son_Of_Dad Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 How do you measure success on something that's free.. You can't measure it by how many existing users have taken up a free and for the most part automated update, when they see market share of mobiles devices (both phones and tablets) jump that will mean something. At this point in time I can't imagine that occurring. offroadaaron and 7Dash8 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Dash8 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Your logic makes no sense. You want to rip on Windows 8, but what about the success of Windows 10? Why did people just upgrade 25+ million devices to Windows 10? Take a closer look at your own logic: you argue that metro and apps are popular, and the Start Menu is unpopular. Windows 8 proved otherwise, and now Windows 10, which very prominently tones down metro on the desktop, and returns a Start Menu (more a Start Screen Lite, but that's another argument altogether) is proving more popular than Windows 8. Meanwhile, Windows Phone, which is entirely metro and app-based, continues to flounder. What can we deduce from these facts, hmm? As for the alleged "runaway success" of Windows 10, well let's see... Microsoft offers a free upgrade to Windows 10 for all Windows 7 and 8.1 owners, surreptitiously installs a big prompt on their desktop to "get Windows 10" - not once, but twice (the first prompt update was an optional one, the second an important one) - and what else do you expect? Curiosity and marketing, combined with a giant existing user base, and a price of $0, equals millions of installs. Watch and see how many eventually return to Windows 7 or 8.1, or stick with Windows 10 but completely avoid Microsoft's walled garden and its gimped apps. Jim K and offroadaaron 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Zagadka Subscriber² Posted August 13, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted August 13, 2015 Take a closer look at your own logic: you argue that metro and apps are popular, and the Start Menu is unpopular. Windows 8 proved otherwise, and now Windows 10, which very prominently tones down metro on the desktop, and returns a Start Menu (more a Start Screen Lite, but that's another argument altogether) is proving more popular than Windows 8. Meanwhile, Windows Phone, which is entirely metro and app-based, continues to flounder. What can we deduce from these facts, hmm? As for the alleged "runaway success" of Windows 10, well let's see... Microsoft offers a free upgrade to Windows 10 for all Windows 7 and 8.1 owners, surreptitiously installs a big prompt on their desktop to "get Windows 10" - not once, but twice (the first prompt update was an optional one, the second an important one) - and what else do you expect? Curiosity and marketing, combined with a giant existing user base, and a price of $0, equals millions of installs. Watch and see how many eventually return to Windows 7 or 8.1, or stick with Windows 10 but completely avoid Microsoft's walled garden and its gimped apps. WP8's main problems were lack of apps and lack of real publication/public awareness. Go ahead and ask most people on the street what a "Windows phone" is. They did an OK-ish job of poking fun at Apple and Google and getting product placement, but they never established what they were offering. The NFL deal, for instance. They threw money at it, but did anyone watching a NFL game think, "hey, that Surface thing is pretty cool"? No, they thought, "those iPads looked pretty. olook, a comical beer commercial" MS is handling the lack of apps through Continuum and branching out its awareness by extending the platform to share the space with Android/iOS, by both extending features to those and allowing features to be imported from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Dash8 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 WP8's main problems were lack of apps and lack of real publication/public awareness. Sorry, not even close. Windows 8's problems were: forcing apps on desktop users (all default desktop file handlers were full screen apps!), forcing the Start Screen on desktop users, forcing the metro UI on desktop users (e.g. Charms menu on the desktop), and removing the traditional Start Menu. Most people were aware of Windows 8, but they also became aware of the above changes personally or via word of mouth, and avoided Windows 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binaryzero Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Some people like to eat red apples, while others enjoy eating green apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Zagadka Subscriber² Posted August 13, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted August 13, 2015 Sorry, not even close. Windows 8's problems were: forcing apps on desktop users (all default desktop file handlers were full screen apps!), forcing the Start Screen on desktop users, forcing the metro UI on desktop users (e.g. Charms menu on the desktop), and removing the traditional Start Menu. Most people were aware of Windows 8, but they also became aware of the above changes personally or via word of mouth, and avoided Windows 8. Which is why I said "WP8" instead of W8" adrynalyne 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Dash8 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Which is why I said "WP8" instead of W8" Whoops, sorry, so you did Some people like to eat red apples, while others enjoy eating green apples. I can accept that some people actually like the look of the metro UI, as that's subjective. What I can't comprehend is why anyone would objectively prefer to use apps over full win32 programs on the Windows desktop. Apps have a sparse, relatively bland appearance with disproportionately large text and graphical elements, and are usually less powerful and certainly less customizable than their traditional program counterparts. I get why Microsoft wants us to use apps (ching, ching, ching), but the mistake they made with Windows 8 and continue to make with Windows 10 is the complete lack of incentive for users to want to use apps as opposed to being forced to use apps. That is, a carrot instead of a stick. Jim K 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son_Of_Dad Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 What I can't comprehend is why anyone would objectively prefer to use apps over full win32 programs on the Windows desktop. Apps have a sparse, relatively bland appearance with disproportionately large text and graphical elements, and are usually less powerful and certainly less customizable than their traditional program counterparts. Which is why "universal apps" won't have the success MS is expecting, you can use the one app across desktop, tablet and phone with desktop being the lynch pin however desktop users don't have the want/reason to use apps, if they're not driven to use the app they won't be getting to MS branded phone or tablet to continue the experience..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dot Matrix Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Meanwhile, Windows Phone, which is entirely metro and app-based, continues to flounder. What can we deduce from these facts, hmm? What else would Windows Phone run? Kludgy, x86 desktop apps? Gotta love those file menus, ammirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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