[Official] Star Trek: Discovery Thread

[redfish]

@shockz,

Its not even clear to me what you mean when you refer to 'classic trek' and what you think needs to go and what needs to stay.

[shockz]

@shockz,

Its not even clear to me what you mean when you refer to 'classic trek' and what you think needs to go and what needs to stay.

Voyager screams 90s. The acting, the plot, the entire direction just wouldn't fit in todays television. You can't do a new alien race or red alert of the week anymore.

Enterprise started doing episode arcs in the last season and actually got pretty good reviews, but the writing was on the wall by then. Things were left open ended for the next week and resolved over several episodes, it allows for major character and plot development, focus on more of the details, etc... That's one of the things that put deep space nine ahead of it's time in the Trek world with the dominion war. Television today is all like this. People that are hoping for Voyager or TNG part 2 with a new series are never going to get that.

Also it'd be nice to see a more grittier Trek, a dystopia/less utopia something where the ships and crew don't act like they're on a luxury cruise liner. Something where there is a real struggle to survive and make a difference, where when the going gets tough you see that humanity might have its imperfections yet still manages to get it done. That sort of thing. The whole perfect future pitch where Earth is sanctuary to the entire quadrant is getting pretty tired.

[PeterTHX]

A lot of classic "Trekkies" aren't really fans of the new JJ crap... And for good reasons. I for one, don't want a new series where you can just beam to faraway planets. Lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM

[redfish]

Voyager screams 90s. The acting, the plot, the entire direction just wouldn't fit in todays television. You can't do a new alien race or red alert of the week anymore.

Enterprise started doing episode arcs in the last season and actually got pretty good reviews, but the writing was on the wall by then. Things were left open ended for the next week and resolved over several episodes, it allows for major character and plot development, focus on more of the details, etc... That's one of the things that put deep space nine ahead of it's time in the Trek world with the dominion war. Television today is all like this. People that are hoping for Voyager or TNG part 2 with a new series are never going to get that.

 

Voyager just had really poor writing. Enterprise was also relatively a weak show. I actually liked the first two seasons best, even though they were lacking; they had some interesting concepts and ideas. I think the story arc just became tedious, the Xindi (IMO) were a stupid species, too much time travel, too much messing up the Vulcans and finding thin excuses for a T'Pol-Tucker relationship. I also liked the episodic pacing in the first two seasons better, it reminded me of the original series and TNG. The whole story arc was boring.

But then we need to get back to what you mean by 'classic trek'. TNG was mainstream. DS9 was good later on, but started slow, so a lot of people never gave it a second chance. All in all, I think Trek just needs good writers, good vision, good production values. The writers need to stay away from too much soap opera stuff, Star Trek trivia and retconning exercises, and focus on ideas and the vision and spirit of the original series. But TNG isn't a bad model.

[shockz]

 

Voyager just had really poor writing. Enterprise was also relatively a weak show. I actually liked the first two seasons best, even though they were lacking, they had some interesting concepts and ideas. I think the story arc just became tedious, the Xindi (IMO) were a stupid species, too much time travel, too much messing up the Vulcans and finding thin excuses for a T'Pol-Tucker relationship. I also liked the episodic pacing in the first two seasons better, it reminded me of the original series and TNG. The whole story arc was boring.

But then we need to get back to what you mean by 'classic trek'. TNG was mainstream. DS9 was good later on but started slow so a lot of people never gave it a second chance. All in all, I think Trek just needs good writers, good vision, good production values. The writers need to stay away from too much soap opera stuff, Star Trek trivia and retconning excercizes, and focus on ideas and the vision and spirit of the original series. But TNG isn't a bad model.

I edited my post as you replied.

Here's what I added. Also it'd be nice to see a more grittier Trek, a dystopia/less utopia something where the ships and crew don't act like they're on a luxury cruise liner. Something where there is a real struggle to survive and make a difference, where when the going gets tough you see that humanity might have its imperfections yet still manages to get it done. That sort of thing. The whole perfect future pitch where Earth is sanctuary to the entire quadrant is getting pretty tired.

[Dot Matrix]

I edited my post as you replied.

Here's what I added. Also it'd be nice to see a more grittier Trek, a dystopia/less utopia something where the ships and crew don't act like they're on a luxury cruise liner. Something where there is a real struggle to survive and make a difference, where when the going gets tough you see that humanity might have its imperfections yet still manages to get it done. That sort of thing. The whole perfect future pitch where Earth is sanctuary to the entire quadrant is getting pretty tired.

So... Deep Space Nine? Enterprise?

[shockz]

So... Deep Space Nine? Enterprise?

That's what I already said... Deep Space Nine was the closest we ever got, and by far the best series when it comes to story development. TNG and VOY didn't do this.

Enterprise got the ###### beat out of them in the Xindi arc, and a few episodes after Azati Prime everything was up and running like they barely had a scratch. In Season 2 a mine blows a hole in their hull, and they are crippled and need the help of an alien space station to fix it. Yet, they're totally on their own after almost losing their hull and warping around in a few episodes with the Xinidi. It was so poorly written and the Xindi resolution was quite a let down after almost 22 episodes with the big bad falling down a shaft after getting a grenade strapped to them. Suddenly we're in WW2 getting shot down by completely different aliens in the same episode. The rest of the show was your usual week to week red alert and then nothing was ever mentioned again with what happened in those episodes 8/10 times. Like I said, they finally got it with season 4. From the notes and leaks about season 5, we might have finally got something like I mentioned.

And in the end, it was still a good series, but it's time for a change. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by shockz

[redfish]

@shockz,

All in all, they just need sharp writers again. Trek hasn't had really strong writing for a while.

[Dot Matrix]

@shockz,

All in all, they just need sharp writers again. Trek hasn't had really strong writing for a while.

Not since Ron Moore left Trek.

[simplezz]

Thank the gods we have independent productions like Axanar. Time to take it out of the hands of big hollywood.

[redfish]

And I should add, a good vision. Not a show that's basically created by a committee.

[simplezz]

Enterprise was also relatively a weak show. I actually liked the first two seasons best, even though they were lacking; they had some interesting concepts and ideas. I think the story arc just became tedious, the Xindi (IMO) were a stupid species, too much time travel, too much messing up the Vulcans and finding thin excuses for a T'Pol-Tucker relationship. I also liked the episodic pacing in the first two seasons better, it reminded me of the original series and TNG. The whole story arc was boring.

Enterprise had some cracking episodes / arcs despite it's generally lacklustre writing. In a mirror darkly, in particular is a real standout.

Can anyone believe that began in 2001? Fourteen years ago! Time absolutely flies.

[redfish]

Enterprise had some cracking episodes / arcs despite it's generally lacklustre writing. In a mirror darkly, in particular is a real standout.

Can anyone believe that began in 2001? Fourteen years ago! Time absolutely flies.

Actually I don't like Mirror Universe Trek in general; I just see it as tedious fanservice. Didn't like when DS9 and Voyager did it either.

[simplezz]

 

Actually I don't like Mirror Universe Trek in general; I just see it as tedious fanservice. Didn't like when DS9 and Voyager did it either.

I don't either normally, but that two-parter was so much fun. The connection to The Tholian Web episode of TOS was really well done. I loved it.

[LOC Veteran]

I hope Disney buys the rights to Star Trek so we can have Star Wars vs. Star Trek

Star Wars vs. Star Trek vs. Doctor Who vs. Marvel vs. Disney

[Dashel]

Probably because sci-fi writers themselves are lacking.  I dunno, I think an episodic format can still survive.  I have enough other arcs to keep track of, give me simple away mission.

[Son_Of_Dad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM

And how does that prove anything?

[Son_Of_Dad]

Which was COMPLETELY re-imagined, and bared very little resemblance to the original.

That however is spinning away from your previous post. Moving on, human kind is destroyed by the Cylons due to the actions of an individual, the survivors leave their solar system under the protection of the only surviving military vessel under the command of it long standing and well respected commander. Galactica a battleship/aircraft carrier realise heavily on it's fighter craft for protection of itself and the civilian population and is lead by the commanders sole surviving son while they search for a new home on a distant and long lost colony called Earth. So the plot remains the same.

Yes it was reimaged in the same regards you could reimage Star Trek either in TV or Movie format just as they did for TNG however this is NOT the case for the JJ trek movies where the substance just doesn't exist.

[Son_Of_Dad]

Also it'd be nice to see a more grittier Trek, a dystopia/less utopia something where the ships and crew don't act like they're on a luxury cruise liner.

Except that isn't Star Trek it's just using the name as the latest movies do, Take Star Trek out and you still have an action / adventure that the same crowd likely would have watched.

[LOC Veteran]

Yeah, Trek was always about exploration and Human discovery - to improve Humanity and make it better and better and be a beacon to other races for peace and harmony. Of course, DS9 etc kinda took that down a notch but that also showed the flaws in Humanity and the inner conflicts characters could have in a "utopian" society basically. The new Trek is just an action romp, with flashy effects and lens flare. Characters mean ###### so far in the reboot universe.

And let's be real here. Trek belongs on TV. It does it's best stories on TV and can go so much more in depth than in a 2 hour movie. Plus, on TV the lower budgets can create better stories as well where they don't have to rely on WHIZ BANG every five minutes or something.

[PeterTHX]

Except that isn't Star Trek it's just using the name as the latest movies do, Take Star Trek out and you still have an action / adventure that the same crowd likely would have watched.

Except you're wrong. And I say this as an "old school" fan. Matter of fact I've been able to introduce classic TREK to people who initially dismissed it, but they've enjoyed the new films so much they were curious about the originals.

Leonard Nimoy said it was classic STAR TREK...but what did he know, right?

[Son_Of_Dad]

Matter of fact I've been able to introduce classic TREK to people who initially dismissed it, but they've enjoyed the new films so much they were curious about the originals.

You've been able to introduce classic Trek fans to the new movies who then wanted to go back to checkout classic Trek. Can't fault that logic.

[HawkMan]

I hope Disney buys the rights to Star Trek so we can have Star Wars vs. Star Trek

 go DIAF

just a friendly suggestion

and NO!

[HawkMan]

You've been able to introduce classic Trek fans to the new movies who then wanted to go back to checkout classic Trek. Can't fault that logic.

Read better

[ThisSiteHasLostItsCharm]

2017 that's an awful long way away....