Paris attacks: More than 120 killed at Bataclan and restaurants

[gameboy1977]

How Paris ISIS Terrorists May Have Used PlayStation 4 To Discuss And Plan Attacks

[DocM]

More details on the "refugee"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/15/world/paris-attacks/index.html

>

One of three bombers who detonated himself at the Stade de France late Friday arrived on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 among numerous Syrian refugees, CNN's Christiane Amanpour reported, citing an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the Ministry of the Interior.

The man declared himself to be Syrian, said his name was Ahmad al Mohammad and was, under new procedures set up to help refugees, issued a new emergency passport.

From Leros, he traveled to Macedonia, Serbia and then Croatia, Amanpour reported.

The fingerprints from the bomber at the Stade de France match those taken when the man was issued his emergency passport on Leros.

The two others who detonated themselves at the stadium carried false Turkish passports, Amanpour reported.

It appears that the Islamic extremist group ISIS is making good on its pledge to hide operatives among the tide of legitimate refugees now entering Europe.

European officials believe, Amanpour said, that there is "a very professional new squad of terrorists inserting themselves into some of these migrant voyages."
>

[Gone]

 

I hope you will repeat this in the next thread that pops up about the killing of Palestinian civilians by the darling of the west.

From what I've seen, your Islamic brothers are the cause of their own deaths.

[ctebah]

https://hwaairfan.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/u-s-apache-attack-helicopter-follows-behind-isis-convoy-doesnt-fire-a-single-shot/

As the title says, a video showing an ISIS Convoy followed by US attack helicopters that do absolutely nothing.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

https://hwaairfan.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/u-s-apache-attack-helicopter-follows-behind-isis-convoy-doesnt-fire-a-single-shot/

As the title says, a video showing an ISIS Convoy followed by US attack helicopters that do absolutely nothing.

Yea, it is an ISIS convoy followed by a US attack helicopter ... because that is what the video description said.  
Looking at the video ...
Convoy of an indeterminate group - yes.  
ISIS - No ISIS flags/marking.  
US attack helicopter - It isn't an Apache...so it isn't a US attack helicopter.

Probably a really old video considering the resolution is less than poor.  

Furthermore, your post isn't relevant to the tragedy in Paris.

[TheLaughingMan]

Yea, it is an ISIS convoy followed by a US attack helicopter ... because that is what the video description said.  Looking at the video ...
Convoy of an indeterminate group - yes.  
ISIS - No ISIS flags/marking.  
US attack helicopter - It isn't an Apache...so it isn't a US attack helicopter.

Probably a really old video considering the resolution is less than poor.  

Furthermore, your post isn't relevant to the tragedy in Paris.

No flag and the quality is really poor, I thought Isis film at 1080

[Gabe84]

Sad news keep coming, 3 of the wounded people have died, bringing the death toll to 132, it appears that there are tens of people in severe conditions, so the number of victims might increase.

[DocM]

That looks more like a Kiowa chopper to me, which is mainly used for observation and recon. Some are armed for the support of ground troops, but they're by no means a gunship like the Apache.

[DocM]

CNN reports the death toll is now 132. Also,

[DigitallySimple]

 

I've heard a lot of Christians said that you can't be compassionate without a religion.

Well, I think that I am more compassionate than a lot of them.

<sigh> I find this hard to believe that "a lot" of Christians said this.  Anyone can be compassionate, it has nothing to do with that.  It just sounds more like an agenda on your end to be honest. 

[FiB3R]

France Drops 20 Bombs On IS Stronghold Raqqa

http://news.sky.com/story/1588256/france-drops-20-bombs-on-is-stronghold-raqqa

A Raqqa activist group reports that no civilians were killed or injured in the French airstrikes:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996678/Paris-terror-attacks-victims-isil-suspects-Syria-arrests-live.html

[WAQT]

My heart goes out to the families who have lost their dear ones in this cowardly attacks.

To carry on, on the discussion from few pages ago, while I agree that you can not put blame of a few terrorist on the entire muslim population. Though saying that Islam has nothing to do with is a grossly untrue, Islam has everything to do with this, the people responsible for this are folowing what the true Islam preaches, if you people are going to wear a tin foil hat and not see whats right infront of your eyes then you are being stupid. Islam preaches hate and death, a theif, cut off the hands, did adultery, stone to death, defected from Islam, death. Islam is a relegion of peace! That is until you dont agree, or try to convert and I have to kill you /s.

While there are moderate muslims in Islam, and they are now being more vocal than ever, that is a minority, the number is growing but is no where near the muslims that are extremists in thier views one way or the other. People also say that there can't be a moderate muslim, I don't agree with them either. I consider myself a muslim, like many others, I was born in it and tend to like being called one. I however think of Islam, my interpretation and not the qurans, as preaching peace and harmony and to live and let live, gays, cartoons, adultery doesn't matter. While many wil say that is not islam, ill say its my made up belief, same as yours, deal with it. Though the country I live in I would never air my thoughts in public for the reasons wel known.

Coming back to the true topic, the US is as much responsible for the attacks in Paris as the isis is. It's a fact that the US armed and trained rebels against Asad and those rebels turned out to be arming and training isis, if this was not known to the US, for years, then the US should really see how effed up their intelligence is. isis, after gaining popularity and strength in Syria by US funded wepons and traing went on a rampage, the US left military equipment in Iraq, humvees, tanks and wepons were conviently picked up by isis on their way back to power in Iraq, and the US knew that was going on, hell isis was posting selfies and videos with them, and still chose to do nothing.

So when you see people from ME etc saying that the US is the one who funded and traied isis know that its true. Heck, the US now doesnt see taliban as terrorists and wants to talk (and when we, Pakistan, was trying to do that we were hammered for it), even funding them in Syria.

What the west doesn't realise is that the ME, any muslim country or a country who's population isn't literate enough doesn't need democracy, democracy in such a country has always been a destabilizing factor. Saddam did gas quite a few people in Iraq, but Iraq was stable, the US her self has killed more civilians in Iraq trying to liberate it, I just don't see how that paid well, or the situation in Syria where the US wants to overthrow Asad, this will only create, and has created more mess for the world and especialy for Israel and will leave Syria just like Iraq.

Many people here ask why the moderate muslims in countries like Pakistan aren't speaking up, well they are, it's just that they are so deep in the 'democracy' that there voices get burried over the hundreds and thousands that like the islam as it trully is, or have an aggressive ideology of their interpretation of islam. While many here might not agree, it sickens me that my vote equals to the vote of a person who isn't literate, is poor enough to sell his vote for a plate of rice and chicken, doesnt know how a country or an economy works but gets to decide who will rule over me and create rules to convert a perfectly fine country name into 'islamic republic' and add relegion to the very core of the constitution, and the US had her hand in this too.

This got too long, sorry for that, hope someone has the time to read it al

Edited November 16, 2015 by Blueclub
Fixing grammar and spelling

[+Raze Subscriber²]

My heart goes out to the families who have lost their dear ones in this cowardly attacks.

To carry on, on the discussion from few pages ago, while I agree that you can not put blame of a few terrorist on the entire muslim population. Though saying that Islam has nothing to do with is a grossly untrue, Islam has everything to do with this, the people responsible for this are folowing what the true Islam preaches, if you people are going to wear a tin foil hat and not see whats right infront of your eyes then you are being stupid. Islam preaches hate and death, a theif, cut off the hands, did adultery, stone to death, defected from Islam, death. Islam is a relegion of peace! That is until you dont agree, or try to convert and I have to kill you /s.

While there are moderate muslims in Islam, and they are now being more vocal than ever, that is a minority, the number is growing but is no where near the muslims that are extremists in thier views one way or the other. People also say that there can't be a moderate muslim, I don't agree with them either. I consider myself a muslim, like many others, I was born in it and tend to like being called one. I however think of Islam, my interpretation and not the qurans, as preaching peace and harmony and to live and let live, gays, cartoons, adultery doesn't matter. While many wil say that is not islam, ill say its my made up belief, same as yours, deal with it. Though the country I live in I would never air my thoughts in public for the reasons wel known.

Coming back to the true topic, the US is as much responsible for the attacks in Paris as the isis is. It's a fact that the US armed and trained rebels against Asad and those rebels turned out to be arming and training isis, if this was not known to the US, for years, then the US should really see how effed up their intelligence is. isis, after gaining popularity and strength in Syria by US funded wepons and traing andwent on a rampage, the US left military equipment in Iraq, humvees, tanks and wepons wich were conviently picked up by isis on their way back to power in Iraq, and the US knew that was going on and still chose to do nothing.

So when you see people from ME etc saying that the US is the one who funded and traied isis know that its true. Heck, the US now doesnt see taliban as terrorists and wants to talk (and when we, Pakistan, was trying to do that we were hammered for it), even funding them in Syria.

What the west doesn't realise is that the ME, any muslim country or a country who's population isn't literate enough doesn't need democracy, democracy in such a country has always been a destabilizing factor. Saddam did gas quite a few people in Iraq, but Iraq was stable, the US her self has killed more civilians in Iraq trying to liberate it, I just don't see how that paid well, or the situation in Syria where the US wants to overthrow Asad, this will only create, and has created more mess for the world and especialy for Israel and will leave Syria just like Iraq.

Many people here ask why the moderate muslims in countries like Pakistan aren't speaking up, well they are, it's just that they are so deep in the 'democracy' that there voices get burried over the hundreds and thousands that like the islam as it trully is, or have an aggressive ideology of their interpretation of islam. While many here might not agree, it sickens me that my vote equals to the vote of a person who isn't literate, is poor enough to sell his vote for a plate of rice and chicken, doesnt know how a country or an economy works but gets to decide who wil rule over me and create rules to covert a perfectly fine country name into 'islamic republic' and add relegion to the very core of the constitution, and the US had her hand in this too.

This got too long, sorry for that, hope someone has the time to read it al

Your post started with a respectful sentiment for the people of Paris and then turned into a "blame the US for everything" rambling rant.  Instead of actually addressing the issues with Islamic extremism and offering something to show there are those who believe otherwise and are trying to change it, you just shifted the blame and responsibility to the US in the end.  If the majority of Muslims are peaceful, etc., as we have heard time and again, (which I believe by the way) then it's time they get off their asses and do something.  The blame game is just an excuse and doesn't hold water anymore.

Vive la France!

 

[WAQT]

 

Your post started with a respectful sentiment for the people of Paris and then turned into a "blame the US for everything" rambling rant.  Instead of actually addressing the issues with Islamic extremism and offering something to show there are those who believe otherwise and are trying to change it, you just shifted the blame and responsibility to the US in the end.  If the majority of Muslims are peaceful, etc., as we have heard time and again, (which I believe by the way) then it's time they get off their asses and do something.  The blame game is just an excuse and doesn't hold water anymore.

Vive la France!

 

 

Blame game? I just stated that the US has as much to do with isis and it's acts as isis it self, you are saying that is not true and the US  never funded the isis, nor provided wepons, or the isis is not takinf selfies in US marine humvees and tanks and driving them around?

I also have provided a solution time amd again for the current crisis as well as ME. Don't let the refugees in, anyone coming should be taken back, libertar a city or two in Syria and help them rebuilt there. Giving refugee status to such a large population will only create more mess in the EU.

As for the middle east, negotiate and pay your way into your intrests there, rather than trying to change regemes, if you can't negotiate there are many sutle ways to put a cousin, a family member or a long distant relative into power. The US with al her might should be able to do that.

If I didn't made sense to you in my first post, please read again, I dont hate the US, but turning a blind eye to what was done is being done would be stupid.

Edit; I never said that the majorityof muslims are peace loving, at least I dont think so after living as one for the past 32 years. Yes, there are people who are trying to change but I also said clearly that they are a minority, and moderate muslim is such a confusing word, I know moderate muslims who live in the AU, earn their and have a full life but will vome back when their girls turm 18 to marry them off to a random family relative who belives in what prospective, they wont care, as being a muslim and born and raised in a muslim country wil be enough. They call themself moderate amd so many others do as well. If 'moderate' muslim means a muslim that would accept gays, pre marital sex etc than those are a minority with the minority of muslims that call themself moderate. So saying that 'moderates' should get off their lazy asses and do something is meaningless, the point in my last post, they are not enogh of us. You wont know, or the media their wont report I think, but I can get you a list of a few dozen true moderte muslims that came out, were killed off, the most recent a female professor by her own student. There are many more who have taken the path but would rather move slowly liberating a few minds at a time.

Vive la France!

Edited November 16, 2015 by Blueclub

[+Raze Subscriber²]

 

Blame game? I just stated that the US has as much to do with isis and it's acts as isis it self, you are saying that is not true and the US  never funded the isis, nor provided wepons, or the isis is not takinf selfies in US marine humvees and tanks and driving them around?

I also have provided a solution time amd again for the current crisis as well as ME. Don't let the refugees in, anyone coming should be taken back, libertar a city or two in Syria and help them rebuilt there. Giving refugee status to such a large population will only create more mess in the EU.

As for the middle east, negotiate and pay your way into your intrests there, rather than trying to change regemes, if you can't negotiate there are many sutle ways to put a cousin, a family member or a long distant relative into power. The US with al her might should be able to do that.

If I didn't made sense to you in my first post, please read again, I dont hate the US, but turning a blind eye to what was done is being done would be stupid.

 

No where in my remarks did I claim what you said was untrue. Don't twist my words around and maybe try reading and comprehending what I wrote.  You did blame the US time and again in your post.  And I certainly didn't turn a blind eye of any kind.  You stated that, "the US is as much responsible for the attacks in Paris as the isis is." and that is blaming the US and it is, in fact, not true at all.

That is all I will be saying about this.  This is not the thread for this discussion.   It has been taken off topic enough and doesn't need to become another blame the US thread.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Raze

[WAQT]

 

No where in my remarks did I claim what you said was untrue. Don't twist my words around and maybe try reading and comprehending what I wrote.  You did blame the US time and again in your post.  And I certainly didn't turn a blind eye of any kind.  You stated that, "the US is as much responsible for the attacks in Paris as the isis is." and that is blaming the US and it is, in fact, not true at all.

I have updated my second post, the one you quoted on this.

Sorry, let's calm down, I am not your enemy here nor you mine. Let me rephrase, your assumption that most muslims are moderate is wrong, atleast I think so.

Yes, I did blame the US and said the US has as much to do with what happend in Paris as isis and also explained why. The US funded them for their own intrest amd it back fired, again. I aslo said " you are saying that is not true and the US  never funded the isis, nor provided wepons, or the isis is not takinf selfies in US marine humvees and tanks and driving them around?"

[DigitallySimple]

 

Your post started with a respectful sentiment for the people of Paris and then turned into a "blame the US for everything" rambling rant.  Instead of actually addressing the issues with Islamic extremism and offering something to show there are those who believe otherwise and are trying to change it, you just shifted the blame and responsibility to the US in the end.  If the majority of Muslims are peaceful, etc., as we have heard time and again, (which I believe by the way) then it's time they get off their asses and do something.  The blame game is just an excuse and doesn't hold water anymore.

Vive la France!

 

This is a good point.  Here is an article on ISIS and Islam in general.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

This is a quote from the above article that I found important.....

Many mainstream Muslim organizations have gone so far as to say the Islamic State is, in fact, un-Islamic. It is, of course, reassuring to know that the vast majority of Muslims have zero interest in replacing Hollywood movies with public executions as evening entertainment. But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

 

 

 

 

[WAQT]

That is all I will be saying about this.  This is not the thread for this discussion.   It has been taken off topic enough and doesn't need to become another blame the US thread.

It might not have beem at the start, but it was bound to become one, and after going through all 12 pages of it I had to reply. Though I agree, let's leave our discussion for the next time we meet, virtually. Until then, let's hope peace and sanity prevails. Thank you for taking time to read the lenghty posts filled with spelling and grammar mistakes.

[DocM]

Focus on this, courtesy of Amazon

[+Raze Subscriber²]

 

This is a good point.  Here is an article on ISIS and Islam in general.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

This is a quote from the above article that I found important.....

Many mainstream Muslim organizations have gone so far as to say the Islamic State is, in fact, un-Islamic. It is, of course, reassuring to know that the vast majority of Muslims have zero interest in replacing Hollywood movies with public executions as evening entertainment. But Muslims who call the Islamic State un-Islamic are typically, as the Princeton scholar Bernard Haykel, the leading expert on the group’s theology, told me, “embarrassed and politically correct, with a cotton-candy view of their own religion” that neglects “what their religion has historically and legally required.” Many denials of the Islamic State’s religious nature, he said, are rooted in an “interfaith-Christian-nonsense tradition.”

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing that, it was a fascinating and educational read. 

[Draconian Guppy]

Goodluck waiting for politicians to grow balls. They'd rather "deal" with the Islamist immigrants for votes.

Migrants are easier problem to fix. Nato level resources for coast gaurd and deportation agreements with countries can fix the situation but the elephant in the room is there re European citizens who want shariah, death for homosexuals,adultery. hell even drawing a cartoon of their prophet. what do you do with them ? Islam is non negotiable with these types.

The other problem is the European right tends to be ethnicity based and not on values like American conservatives. So no rational discussion of the issue or potential fixes an take place. Sadly, your children will pay far higher price

elephant in the room

this is silly, this is basically what is in the old testament, exactly the same!

[Rippleman]

Why are all the resident Muslims all on the defensive? This isn't about you, this about this atrocity. In the end, JUST like ISIS can't speak for you, you also CANT speak for ISIS. Works both ways. For you to say they are NOT Muslim is the VERY same thing as them claiming YOU are not. Quit defending Islam and accept that it can be what ever you want. In the end, this happened because THEY BELIEVE in their version of ISLAM. Would have this happened had it NOT been for ISLAM? No. 

Remove the religion - remove the excuse.

As long as people believe in alleged deities that tell others "follow my ways and you will be rewarded", this crap will continue.

[ranasrule]

From what I've seen, your Islamic brothers are the cause of their own deaths.

Yeah...the women and children in Palestine bomb themselves.

[FloatingFatMan]

Yeah...the women and children in Palestine bomb themselves.

When they fire on Israel, or support those who fire on Israel, they might as well be bombing themselves.

this is silly, this is basically what is in the old testament, exactly the same!

And that's pretty much Islam in a nutshell. All the really bad and crazy stuff from the Old Testament rolled into one big fat ball of hate.

[Gabe84]

My heart goes out to the families who have lost their dear ones in this cowardly attacks.

To carry on, on the discussion from few pages ago, while I agree that you can not put blame of a few terrorist on the entire muslim population. Though saying that Islam has nothing to do with is a grossly untrue, Islam has everything to do with this, the people responsible for this are folowing what the true Islam preaches, if you people are going to wear a tin foil hat and not see whats right infront of your eyes then you are being stupid. Islam preaches hate and death, a theif, cut off the hands, did adultery, stone to death, defected from Islam, death. Islam is a relegion of peace! That is until you dont agree, or try to convert and I have to kill you /s.

While there are moderate muslims in Islam, and they are now being more vocal than ever, that is a minority, the number is growing but is no where near the muslims that are extremists in thier views one way or the other. People also say that there can't be a moderate muslim, I don't agree with them either. I consider myself a muslim, like many others, I was born in it and tend to like being called one. I however think of Islam, my interpretation and not the qurans, as preaching peace and harmony and to live and let live, gays, cartoons, adultery doesn't matter. While many wil say that is not islam, ill say its my made up belief, same as yours, deal with it. Though the country I live in I would never air my thoughts in public for the reasons wel known.

Coming back to the true topic, the US is as much responsible for the attacks in Paris as the isis is. It's a fact that the US armed and trained rebels against Asad and those rebels turned out to be arming and training isis, if this was not known to the US, for years, then the US should really see how effed up their intelligence is. isis, after gaining popularity and strength in Syria by US funded wepons and traing went on a rampage, the US left military equipment in Iraq, humvees, tanks and wepons were conviently picked up by isis on their way back to power in Iraq, and the US knew that was going on, hell isis was posting selfies and videos with them, and still chose to do nothing.

So when you see people from ME etc saying that the US is the one who funded and traied isis know that its true. Heck, the US now doesnt see taliban as terrorists and wants to talk (and when we, Pakistan, was trying to do that we were hammered for it), even funding them in Syria.

What the west doesn't realise is that the ME, any muslim country or a country who's population isn't literate enough doesn't need democracy, democracy in such a country has always been a destabilizing factor. Saddam did gas quite a few people in Iraq, but Iraq was stable, the US her self has killed more civilians in Iraq trying to liberate it, I just don't see how that paid well, or the situation in Syria where the US wants to overthrow Asad, this will only create, and has created more mess for the world and especialy for Israel and will leave Syria just like Iraq.

Many people here ask why the moderate muslims in countries like Pakistan aren't speaking up, well they are, it's just that they are so deep in the 'democracy' that there voices get burried over the hundreds and thousands that like the islam as it trully is, or have an aggressive ideology of their interpretation of islam. While many here might not agree, it sickens me that my vote equals to the vote of a person who isn't literate, is poor enough to sell his vote for a plate of rice and chicken, doesnt know how a country or an economy works but gets to decide who will rule over me and create rules to convert a perfectly fine country name into 'islamic republic' and add relegion to the very core of the constitution, and the US had her hand in this too.

This got too long, sorry for that, hope someone has the time to read it al

That's a very interesting post, I would like to "like" this but this new forum system doesn't love me at all.

About moderates, what I have not seen in the past and now, or at least I don't recall seeing them, is scores of muslims living and prospering in the West protesting after 9/11, after Madrid, after London and after Paris, or if they did then I must have missed it. I don't personally believe in public demonstrations, marches and torchlight processions at all but, according to statistics, there are 2.1 millions self-declared muslims in France, 2.7 millions in the UK, 1.85 millions in Spain, 820,000 in Italy, 1.5 millions in Germany and 44 millions in Europe - not just the EU -, so my question is: where are they? Where were they? Why aren't they speaking up, except for a few scholars here and there?

As for responsibilities, I agree that the EU and US' foreign policies share the blame, that's the same thing that Silvio Berlusconi has been saying over the years - not that I'm particularly fond of him, completely the opposite to say the least - if you invade a country where its people have been killing each other off for centuries, a country which has been living under a dictator for so long, where the vast majority of its people are completely illiterate, then this country is not ready to cope with democracy, they're not ready to accept differences and make informed decisions, sadly they need a dictator, hopefully not a bloodthirsty one like Saddam or Gaddafi, but they need someone with an iron fist to guide those countries on the path to democracy, someone like Putin. Too many times we - the West - invaded countries without a plan, it's sure easy for our armies to destroy everything in their paths, but we've never been able to rebuild.

A reminder of our past mistakes, too many times we've chosen as allies people who turned out to be even worse bloodthirsty psychopaths than the ones we were trying to defenestrate.