techbeck Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said: <snip> And there are a lot of videos out there praising cops, showing good things, doing good things, that never get spread around or reported on. There was even a lady thanking the cops for shielding her and he kids during the Dallas incident. I even posted the article and no on responded to it. Why? Because bad evil cops = news, ratings, and controversy. restroom, trag3dy and T3X4S 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 10 minutes ago, trag3dy said: How do you figure? Michael Jackson was actually talented and had a skin disease which is why he had lighter skin. That is debatable. I read that he had his skin bleached. If you are into a performer grabbing their crotch all the time, them maybe so. I do not get in to that sort of thing as being entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, nekrosoft13 said: and? If they would do less crimes and cooperate that wouldn't be a problem. here is Chicago http://heyjackass.com/2016-race-of-victim-assailant/ and with the general "no snitch" rule in the "not so fun" neighborhoods and drive by shooting, who do you think makes up the majority 78% of no arrest. That is how it is in Chicago, not my kind of town. What you say is true, probably caused by this Politically Correct movement. T3X4S 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Gary7 said: That is debatable. I read that he had his skin bleached. If you are into a performer grabbing their crotch all the time, them maybe so. I do not get in to that sort of thing as being entertainment. Uh...okay? I didn't ask your entertainment preferences but good to know I guess? +Gary7 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, trag3dy said: Uh...okay? I didn't ask your entertainment preferences but good to know I guess? You said that he was talented , I liked one song of his "Billy Jean" Like I said I read that he bleached his skin, I was not aware of any skin problems. But I would have to agree that he had more talent than Beyonce , I do not care for her music at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, theyarecomingforyou said: One way to cut the number of shootings immediately would be to charge any police officer who kills an unarmed suspect with murder. Unless a weapon is seen the police should be required to operate on the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty', rather than 'shoot first and ask questions later'. I don't see how anyone can look at US policing and consider it even adequate, let alone good. I would argue that policing in the US is pathetic, utterly unfit for purpose. This is not how police operate. Unarmed does not mean innocent, nor does it mean not dangerous. That word is used as a synonym of "innocent". But a man can still take you down in a single blow with his fists or at the very least disorient you and take your firearm. But sure, lets just neuter a cop's ability to defend himself in a matter because of a tiny number of occurrences. Nogib, psmoked, DConnell and 2 others 5 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Emn1ty said: But a man can still take you down in a single blow with his fists or at the very least disorient you and take your firearm. But sure, lets just neuter a cop's ability to defend himself in a matter because of a tiny number of occurrences. Like what happened recently in Michigan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
restroom Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 1 hour ago, techbeck said: And there are a lot of videos out there praising cops, showing good things, doing good things, that never get spread around or reported on. There was even a lady thanking the cops for shielding her and he kids during the Dallas incident. I even posted the article and no on responded to it. Why? Because bad evil cops = news, ratings, and controversy. Exactly. You post something that might prove someone or a community to possibly be wrong and it just gets ignored. T3X4S 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order_66 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Sadly this is exactly where Obama and the liberals have taken this country, a nation divided. +Gary7, psmoked and Nogib 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 hours ago, restroom said: Firstly - I don't know if you have a language barrier with me, but you either seem to be misinterpreting what I'm saying or just outright twisting it. You say that without specifying what exactly I'm 'misinterpreting'. 2 hours ago, restroom said: Secondly - I saw statistics in another thread that showed more whites are killed by police AND it was relative to the population. I.E. 800 out of 1000 white people killed, vs 802 out of 10,000 black people for example. So more white people are apparently killed in the US than black and it is relative to population and NOT saying 50 out of 100 white and 55 out of 100 black. That's completely wrong. Per million there are 1.42 white people killed and 3.33 black people killed (The Guardian); the figures also highlight an under-reported trend, which is that Native Americans are killed at a rate of 3.4 per million. Please don't claim you 'saw statistics' without verifying their authenticity, as that is how misinformation spreads. If you weren't sure you should have gone and checked for yourself rather than erroneously challenging me. 2 hours ago, restroom said: Lastly - I'm sure there are also plenty of videos online showing police brutality toward white and other cultures. Finding videos of police being aggressors toward black people and purposely overlooking videos featuring white counterparts kind shows exactly the mentality those who back BLM and such groups have. I never suggested otherwise. There is a massive problem with police brutality across the board, it just happens to disproportionately affect ethnic minorities. 2 hours ago, restroom said: On that note, I'm kind of done arguing about this as its obvious you just don't get it. Ad hominem. If you can't win the argument you attack the person challenging you. I'm happy to have my opinions challenged and accept when I'm wrong. So please, if you take issue with something I'm saying it then please do challenge it. If you have evidence to support your position then please provide it. 300z 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 17 minutes ago, Order_66 said: Sadly this is exactly where Obama and the liberals have taken this country, a nation divided. You say that whilst espousing the same divisive rhetoric you criticise Obama and liberals for. Do you not see the hypocrisy of your statement? NeoTrunks, hagjohn and SecretAgentMan 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 53 minutes ago, Emn1ty said: This is not how police operate. Unarmed does not mean innocent, nor does it mean not dangerous. That word is used as a synonym of "innocent". But a man can still take you down in a single blow with his fists or at the very least disorient you and take your firearm. But sure, lets just neuter a cop's ability to defend himself in a matter because of a tiny number of occurrences. Sorry, but that won't wash. UK police have zero difficulty taking down a dangerous suspect alive. theyarecomingforyou, 300z and Depicus 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Sorry, but that won't wash. UK police have zero difficulty taking down a dangerous suspect alive. How many civilians carry weapons in The UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techbeck Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Gary7 said: How many civilians carry weapons in The UK? Not only that, how many gangs compared to those in the UK. If UK police had control of cities like LA, Chicago, and Detroit for a day...they would be running back home before the days end. restroom, T3X4S, Nogib and 2 others 5 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 19 minutes ago, Gary7 said: How many civilians carry weapons in The UK? Irrelevant. UK police have little issue taking down ARMED suspects alive. American cops are trained to shoot first, without even trying to calm things down (and more often, escalating the situation). UK cops are trained to calm a situation down and arrest the suspect, and only shoot as an absolutely last resort. Also, EVERY police shooting is thoroughly investigated by an independent body. theyarecomingforyou, 300z and Depicus 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Irrelevant. UK police have little issue taking down ARMED suspects alive. American cops are trained to shoot first, without even trying to calm things down (and more often, escalating the situation). UK cops are trained to calm a situation down and arrest the suspect, and only shoot as an absolutely last resort. Also, EVERY police shooting is thoroughly investigated by an independent body. They are not trained to shoot first without ever trying to calm things down. How can you even say that and actually believe it? Out of the hundreds of thousands to millions of interactions people had with police in 2015 only 990 resulted in a death. Surely, if police were taught to "shoot first without ever trying to calm things down" as you kindly put it, there would be hundreds to thousands of more deaths by cops yeah? psmoked and DConnell 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Irrelevant. UK police have little issue taking down ARMED suspects alive. American cops are trained to shoot first, without even trying to calm things down (and more often, escalating the situation). UK cops are trained to calm a situation down and arrest the suspect, and only shoot as an absolutely last resort. Also, EVERY police shooting is thoroughly investigated by an independent body. It is not irrelevant. It is my understanding that the UK Police do not even carry a weapon? Is that correct? Every police shooting here is also investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, trag3dy said: They are not trained to shoot first without ever trying to calm things down. How can you even say that and actually believe it? Based on observation from the myriad of videos available. Sure, those are one sided, but it's pretty clear, from the sheer quantity of them and from what your OWN reporters state, what's going on. 2 minutes ago, Gary7 said: It is not irrelevant. It is my understanding that the UK Police do not even carry a weapon? Is that correct? Every police shooting here is also investigated. Depends. Regular beat cops don't carry guns, they carry pepper sprays and tasers, But we DO have armed police, they DO get called, and they still manage not to kill very often. Also, when it's the SAME FORCE investigating a shooting in the US, which it usually is from what I've seen, that's not an investigation at all. theyarecomingforyou and 300z 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gary7 Subscriber² Posted July 12, 2016 Subscriber² Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, FloatingFatMan said: Based on observation from the myriad of videos available. Sure, those are one sided, but it's pretty clear, from the sheer quantity of them and from what your OWN reporters state, what's going on. Depends. Regular beat cops don't carry guns, they carry pepper sprays and tasers, But we DO have armed police, they DO get called, and they still manage not to kill very often. Also, when it's the SAME FORCE investigating a shooting in the US, which it usually is from what I've seen, that's not an investigation at all. That is about to be changed. So when an armed suspect is found, a special squad with guns arrive, more than one and they can plan what they will do. In the US a police officer is normally alone and has to make a split second decision on what they are to do. Many now are reluctant do to what is going on here. But here a Police Officer does not have the advantage of a plan of attack, The police used to be paired but due to budget cuts many are on patrol alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Based on observation from the myriad of videos available. Sure, those are one sided, but it's pretty clear, from the sheer quantity of them and from what your OWN reporters state, what's going on. So actual aggregate numbers mean nothing to you then? Cause the numbers show you are more likely to fall off a ladder and die than get shot by a police officer. Nogib, trag3dy and psmoked 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Based on observation from the myriad of videos available. Sure, those are one sided, but it's pretty clear, from the sheer quantity of them and from what your OWN reporters state, what's going on. Depends. Regular beat cops don't carry guns, they carry pepper sprays and tasers, But we DO have armed police, they DO get called, and they still manage not to kill very often. Also, when it's the SAME FORCE investigating a shooting in the US, which it usually is from what I've seen, that's not an investigation at all. "sheer quantity", right? 990 deaths from cops in 2015. The population of the US is ~320 million. Let's put things into perspective shall we? There are roughly 120000 cops in the US who deal with dozens of different people every single day with varying degrees of sanity and mental states and all kinds of other stuff most of us probably won't ever be able to imagine. 99.9999% of those interactions don't result in a death. Of course you wouldn't even begin to rationalize that oh no. The media says cops kill people indiscriminately so it has to be true. Also of course you would never hear about all the good things those police do day to day, why would you? A police officer who stops to help some one who is having car trouble on the freeway to make sure they are safe and every thing is okay doesn't make for a good news story. But a cop who shoots a defenseless black boy who was just big old gentle giant minding his own business walking down the middle of the street? That's gold. Edited July 12, 2016 by trag3dy Nogib, psmoked and +Gary7 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Emn1ty said: So actual aggregate numbers mean nothing to you then? Cause the numbers show you are more likely to fall off a ladder and die than get shot by a police officer. Unless you're a suspect, or just a confused person who someone called the cops on, or (from one video I saw), just a homeless person who didn't respond fast enough and was promptly gunned down, or even (from one video), a completely unarmed and SURRENDERED suspect, arms in the air and fully compliant to instructions, who was also promptly gunned down. Sure those cases are extremes and rare, but in each of those cases, the cops responsible are still on the beat. Your cops pull the trigger to easily. You need to accept that and fix it. Even during the 70's they were never this trigger happy. 300z 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trag3dy Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Unless you're a suspect, or just a confused person who someone called the cops on, or (from one video I saw), just a homeless person who didn't respond fast enough and was promptly gunned down, or even (from one video), and completely unarmed and SURRENDERED suspect, arms in the air and fully compliant to instructions, who was also promptly gunned down. Sure those cases are extremes, and in each of those cases, the cops are still on the beat. Your cops pull the trigger to easily. You need to accept that. No one is saying every single police officer is perfect but for your blanket statement to even come close to working the numbers would have to be far worse than they actually are. Numbers just don't support your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said: Unless you're a suspect, or just a confused person who someone called the cops on, or (from one video I saw), just a homeless person who didn't respond fast enough and was promptly gunned down, or even (from one video), a completely unarmed and SURRENDERED suspect, arms in the air and fully compliant to instructions, who was also promptly gunned down. Sure those cases are extremes and rare, but in each of those cases, the cops responsible are still on the beat. Your cops pull the trigger to easily. You need to accept that and fix it. Even during the 70's they were never this trigger happy. So basically, you only accept perfection from police. Bad eggs can never happen, mistakes can never happen? trag3dy, psmoked and DConnell 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Just now, trag3dy said: No one is saying every single police officer is perfect but for your blanket statement to even come close to working the numbers would have to be far worse than they actually are. Numbers just don't support your argument. I'm happy to agree with you, and even said that these cases are the extreme and rare. But still, they seem to happen far too often. 1 minute ago, Emn1ty said: So basically, you only accept perfection from police. Bad eggs can never happen, mistakes can never happen? Sure bad eggs and mistakes can happen, but why are a lot of those bad eggs still cops? 300z 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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