Emn1ty Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 6 minutes ago, Depicus said: Quite a few white people idolise the almighty gun and pray at the NRA alter The context is a bit different, though. Nogib and Depicus 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyarecomingforyou Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 9 hours ago, jjkusaf said: Yep. Then that's extremely concerning. 8 hours ago, Emn1ty said: I didn't highlight the "far left" portion of this article, that's on you. I am not trying to discount the guardian because it is left affiliatied (even if the article says it is). But the numbers this article puts forth (unless you are denying the accuracy of their numbers) don't disappear just because they made an appeal to bias. Which, ironically, is what you're doing here. Who cares about the source or the affiliations of that source just look at the numbers. The source of information is extremely important. Posting random blog posts that accuse The Guardian of being a 'far left extremist' publication calls into question the journalistic integrity of the site. You might as well be quoting comments from the YouTube comments section. 8 hours ago, Emn1ty said: I never said anything about it being "because they are black". Of course it's because of poverty, broken families, education, etc. Don't put words in my mouth. I am trying to point out that they are disproportionately killed because they are disproportionately criminal (regardless of why they are criminal). When you account for criminality, the numbers aren't so biased. But that doesn't fit the narrative. Just as you've pivoted away from statistics and jumped into motive and racial bias. A huge slippery slope that's resulting in Blacks being in the state they're in entirely because of others. Of course, the entire world is designed to put Blacks into the economic and social hell-hole they're in and nothing they do contributes to that, right? So are you saying there is no inherent racism in policing and that black people are killed more frequently only because they are responsible for more crime? Because I don't think that's a credible position. Yes I would expect more black people to be killed by police when they are responsible for more crime but not the level we're seeing. Given the level of racism we have evidence for I don't accept the notion that race isn't a factor, that all those police killings were justified. 8 hours ago, Emn1ty said: It's not about race, it's about a community (which self identifies with its race) that perpetuates harmful behavior and culture. One that idolizes gangs, guns, drugs and violence. A community who's identity revolves around being a victim of white "oppressors". Rather than focus on why Blacks have terrible graduation rates, why they are constantly singe parent families, etc we'd rather look at numbers that are more likely a result of these factors than a cause and correct those. This is where I take issue, which is the idea that the 'black community'—whatever that's meant to be—embraces violence and portrays itself as victims. Are there communities of black people that are as you describe? Absolutely, but the same is true of whites and Latinos. What's relevant is that they're poor communities that lack access to quality education and employment, which fosters crime. Some of that is a legacy of slavery and of racist laws, meaning society has a duty to repair the harm perpetrated against them. Unfortunately there isn't any political will to address that, to invest in these deprived communities. Instead they are portrayed as having brought it upon themselves, the right-wing narrative being that anyone can work hard and achieve success therefore black people must be lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekrosoft13 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 15 hours ago, Gary7 said: Chicago BLM Activist: 'We Need to Abolish the Police' Watch the Video on What THe BLM activist has to say. It will make your day. "come up with community solutions for transformative justice" aren't they doing that already in Chicago? their form of community solutions is all the gang shootings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emn1ty Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said: The source of information is extremely important. Posting random blog posts that accuse The Guardian of being a 'far left extremist' publication calls into question the journalistic integrity of the site. You might as well be quoting comments from the YouTube comments section. Excellent dismissal of the content by only reading the a short bit of it. Don't have to rebut if I can just throw the source in the mud. This is called an appeal to biased authority and appeal to motive. 1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said: So are you saying there is no inherent racism in policing and that black people are killed more frequently only because they are responsible for more crime? Because I don't think that's a credible position. Yes I would expect more black people to be killed by police when they are responsible for more crime but not the level we're seeing. Given the level of racism we have evidence for I don't accept the notion that race isn't a factor, that all those police killings were justified. I didn't say there was no racism, I'm saying the likely cause of said racism is higher frequency of blacks involved in crime than whites. 52% of homicides are by Blacks (despite only being 14% of the population). That's a pretty wild number, if you ask me. And then there's this Harvard study which shows that while Blacks are more likely to have force used against them, they are not more likely to be shot by cops (the study was done by an African American, btw). Lets not forget the narrative always talking about it being racism... yet we often see Black cops being the "police" in question. Are they racist against their own race? An excerpt from that Harvard study: Quote In shootings in these 10 cities involving officers, officers were more likely to fire their weapons without having first been attacked when the suspects were white. Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon. Both results undercut the idea of racial bias in police use of lethal force. The fact is, Blacks are more often involved in crime and therefore more disproportionately involved with police. Even the BJS put Blacks at three times more likely than the national average to commit a crime. So what's not credible about this position? 1 hour ago, theyarecomingforyou said: This is where I take issue, which is the idea that the 'black community'—whatever that's meant to be—embraces violence and portrays itself as victims. Are there communities of black people that are as you describe? Absolutely, but the same is true of whites and Latinos. What's relevant is that they're poor communities that lack access to quality education and employment, which fosters crime. Some of that is a legacy of slavery and of racist laws, meaning society has a duty to repair the harm perpetrated against them. Unfortunately there isn't any political will to address that, to invest in these deprived communities. Instead they are portrayed as having brought it upon themselves, the right-wing narrative being that anyone can work hard and achieve success therefore black people must be lazy. The problem is there are LARGE communities like that. It is clearly evident (as is also an issue with hispanics). Juvenile violence, specifically in gangs... only 11% of them are white, while 35% are Black and over 40% are Hispanic. Once more, very disproportionate. Slavery hasn't been around for over a hundred years, so that's not an excuse. We shouldn't be living in the past, we should be moving forward rather than bringing up old grudges and blaming people who weren't even alive at the time. As for racist laws, point a single one out to me. Please. I'm sure you'll be hard pressed to find an openly racist or even subtle racist law in the United States. As for "quality education", LAUSD is pretty terrible overall, yet we still see a huge disparity between Blacks/Hispanics and Asians/Whites. The former two are below 65% graduation rate, while the latter are above 80%. Is that the schools fault, or is it that they don't invest in their education? Or perhaps have no interest in being educated? And that's just LAUSD, apparently Nevada has a 40% graduation rate and there are a total of 9 states with graduation rates below 55%. So why are we seeing such low numbers amongst them, yet white/asian numbers remain consistently higher? These factors, as you say, result in and or foster criminal behavior or even necessity. But at what point do we stop blaming the system, and start putting responsibility on the Black community to fix its own problems? It's not about laziness, it's a matter of what they deem important. And i get the impression that, with schooling being free through high school, the incentive to learn and do well in school just isn't there for them. What we need to know is why. And I have a hard time believing it's racial bias when it's a problem even in states that are the most racially sensitive ones (like California). Edited July 14, 2016 by Emn1ty Nogib 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrobwx71 Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 18 hours ago, jjkusaf said: Source? Cops get fired, get thrown in jail, etc., if found that they have broken policy, procedure or the law. Refute! Sorry to butt in: However...... http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/year-police-shootings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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