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Deaths confirmed after Manchester Arena blast reports

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Red Panda    217

This is another gift from the religion of peace, Islam.

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+trag3dy    4,138

It'll come out sooner or later, most of the victims were kids around the age of 16.

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Skiver    1,960
9 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

Sadly I think we will see it and, even sadder, it won't sway or affect these idiots and their messed up agenda.

It's completely mind boggling that someone can be so convinced by a cause that they are willing to put anyone from the general public let alone kids and teenagers in harm's way like this. I think I heard that the device had been packed with Nails or Screws also to inflict maximum damage.

 

I know she was physically not hurt in any way, but my heart also goes out to Arianna Grande on this one. She wasn't at fault but given the tweet, she sent out last night I bet a part of her feels guilty. 

1 minute ago, trag3dy said:

It'll come out sooner or later, most of the victims were kids around the age of 16.

I read another witness account that a woman and her daughter (I think) chose to leave a few minutes early to beat the crowd and get out and thankfully missed the explosion. That got me thinking though, how many other mothers/fathers etc chose to leave those few minutes early to get the younger ones out ahead of the crowd, it makes me sick to my stomach to think that the people closest to this were perhaps the youngest.

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PsYcHoKiLLa    2,421
5 minutes ago, Red Panda said:

This is another gift from the religion of peace, Islam.

A religion didn't carry out this attack, a sick individual did.

 

There's already one mother who can't trace her daughter, horrible:

 

135f4fb8-1ffe-4596-a079-15015e8a716d.jpg

 

Olivia Campbell, 15

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

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The Evil Overlord    18,442
2 minutes ago, Skiver said:

It's completely mind boggling that someone can be so convinced by a cause that they are willing to put anyone from the general public let alone kids and teenagers in harm's way like this.

They don't care, their goal is to incite fear and hatred, personally I think it's time to fight fire with fire, as cutting the head off of the organisation does nothing.

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+trag3dy    4,138
4 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

A religion didn't carry out this attack, a sick individual did.

 

There's already one mother who can't trace her daughter, horrible:

 

135f4fb8-1ffe-4596-a079-15015e8a716d.jpg

 

Olivia Campbell, 15

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-manchester-40007967

There are dozens of pictures on twitter of missing kids.  Apparently there are around 60 kids that are being held at a motel near where the concert took place that are still trying to get reconnected with their parents.

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Skiver    1,960
2 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

They don't care, their goal is to incite fear and hatred, personally I think it's time to fight fire with fire, as cutting the head off of the organisation does nothing.

I don't have the answer, and I'm not saying your wrong but I don't believe meeting violence with violence will solve anything. In fact I suspect all it will do is to add fuel their hate speech about the west and what we've done to them.

 

 

 

 

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The Evil Overlord    18,442
1 minute ago, Skiver said:

I don't have the answer, and I'm not saying your wrong but I don't believe meeting violence with violence will solve anything. In fact I suspect all it will do is to add fuel their hate speech about the west and what we've done to them.

I used to think like you, and agree with your sentiment, but their goal is to wipe out everything that doesn't fit into their 'ideals'.

And recently I've been thinking about how much better the world would be if they no longer existed, leaving just the members of the same religion to live in harmony with the rest of the world

 

Hell, I remember a youtube video (over the Christmas period if memory serves) I once watched (appeared originally as a skippable advertisement) of an ex is fighter who returned home, and revealed his findings, infighting, internal conflicts, power struggles, power plays, just a bunch of jumped up ###### wads <spacing to make sure profanity filter catches the f bomb>  trying to fill the void left by their fallen leaders.

 

I can't help but think about how effective the nuclear deterrent is. (This is no way an endorsement to use nukes, rather the psychological impact they have which is why they're not being used).

(I REALLY want to say, we'll keep bombing and killing yours until you cease your campaign against us, but I can't)

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Skiver    1,960
1 minute ago, The Evil Overlord said:

I used to think like you, and agree with your sentiment, but their goal is to wipe out everything that doesn't fit into their 'ideals'.

And recently I've been thinking about how much better the world would be if they no longer existed, leaving just the members of the same religion to live in harmony with the rest of the world

 

Hell, I remember a youtube video (over the Christmas period if memory serves) I once watched (appeared originally as a skippable advertisement) of an ex is fighter who returned home, and revealed his findings, infighting, internal conflicts, power struggles, power plays, just a bunch of jumped up ###### wads <spacing to make sure profanity filter catches the f bomb>  trying to fill the void left by their fallen leaders.

 

I can't help but think about how effective the nuclear deterrent is. (This is no way an endorsement to use nukes, rather the psychological impact they have which is why they're not being used).

(I REALLY want to say, we'll keep bombing and killing yours until you cease your campaign against us, but I can't)

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I suspect the bigger problem of this is identifying who "they" actually are. We are no better than them if we start carpet bombing an area based on a hunch. I agree in principle that ending them as a group is the only way to ever be free of these types of attacks but I worry in attempting to do something of that scale makes me question if we are any better.

 

If we aren't losing our loved ones we'll lose our humanity.

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dipsylalapo    1,817
22 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

They don't care, their goal is to incite fear and hatred, personally I think it's time to fight fire with fire, as cutting the head off of the organisation does nothing.

How? How do you stop lone attackers? or this group when we have no idea who "they" are?

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The Evil Overlord    18,442
25 minutes ago, dipsylalapo said:

How? How do you stop lone attackers? or this group when we have no idea who "they" are?

That's a discussion for the genius level think tanks, and then to only take action once all the facts are verified, and a plan of action is put into place with extreme precision, I'm not one of those think tank types so I cannot answer that, and was only voicing how I feel.

27 minutes ago, Skiver said:

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I suspect the bigger problem of this is identifying who "they" actually are. We are no better than them if we start carpet bombing an area based on a hunch. I agree in principle that ending them as a group is the only way to ever be free of these types of attacks but I worry in attempting to do something of that scale makes me question if we are any better.

 

If we aren't losing our loved ones we'll lose our humanity.

Agreed, history is a great teacher, but some lessons were learned the hard way, for some.

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PsYcHoKiLLa    2,421

The problem seems to be when these people are radicalised, I think a large percentage of this seems to be happening in prisons in the UK because a lot of the British IS fighters we hear about seem to have a criminal past (although who know how much of that is propaganda) and they are being radicalised by like-minded individuals in prison... "Come with me brother, fight the good fight against the infidels" etc etc.

 

They really need to talk to Muslim children and instil a sense of society within them when they're young so things like this would become abhorrent to them.

 

A huge factor in this is the Iraq invasion though, the formulation of ISIS has been proven to be a direct consequence of what happened there, the stories, crimes and tortures that were carried out there against a nation which, at that time, had no quarrel with the west was a huge factor in affecting the judgement of Muslims there against the western countries as well as Muslims in our own countries watching this happening to, what is in effect, their brothers as Islam teaches it's followers that they are all brothers and sisters.

 

Bush and his idiots have a lot to answer for.

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The Evil Overlord    18,442
1 minute ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

The problem seems to be when these people are radicalised, I think a large percentage of this seems to be happening in prisons in the UK because a lot of the British IS fighters we hear about seem to have a criminal past (although who know how much of that is propaganda) and they are being radicalised by like-minded individuals in prison... "Come with me brother, fight the good fight against the infidels" etc etc.

 

They really need to talk to Muslim children and instil a sense of society within them when they're young so things like this would become abhorrent to them.

Agreed, I was thinking along those lines also, bit like how a certain type of 'rally' is angered by the little things another person does, and they let it build and fester until it's completely twisted and blown out of proportion.

 

Anyway, my thoughts go out to those who were affected by this act of barbarity

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PsYcHoKiLLa    2,421
10 minutes ago, The Evil Overlord said:

Agreed, I was thinking along those lines also, bit like how a certain type of 'rally' is angered by the little things another person does, and they let it build and fester until it's completely twisted and blown out of proportion.

 

Anyway, my thoughts go out to those who were affected by this act of barbarity

Agreed, I actually feel for Ariana Grande too, I'm not a fan at all but the fact that this has happened at her concert would have to effect her, although this could have been any public gathering, she also has, I think, 2 UK dates still to go this week.

 

http://www.ticketmaster.co.uk/Ariana-Grande-tickets/artist/1688071

Edited by PsYcHoKiLLa
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The Evil Overlord    18,442
37 minutes ago, PsYcHoKiLLa said:

The problem seems to be when these people are radicalised, I think a large percentage of this seems to be happening in prisons in the UK because a lot of the British IS fighters we hear about seem to have a criminal past (although who know how much of that is propaganda) and they are being radicalised by like-minded individuals in prison... "Come with me brother, fight the good fight against the infidels" etc etc.

 

They really need to talk to Muslim children and instil a sense of society within them when they're young so things like this would become abhorrent to them.

 

A huge factor in this is the Iraq invasion though, the formulation of ISIS has been proven to be a direct consequence of what happened there, the stories, crimes and tortures that were carried out there against a nation which, at that time, had no quarrel with the west was a huge factor in affecting the judgement of Muslims there against the western countries as well as Muslims in our own countries watching this happening to, what is in effect, their brothers as Islam teaches it's followers that they are all brothers and sisters.

 

Bush and his idiots have a lot to answer for.

I believe it goes further back than that, the Mujahidin were seen as 'freedom fighters' fighting against what they saw as an act of aggression from the Soviet Union, <skip ahead> then there was the attack in the '90's led by Saddam Hussain, (Bush Senior) <skip to> Formation of Al Qaeda, <skip to current time> IS, I think the only thing these monsters are interested in is fighting for the sake of fighting. And Terror of course.

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Daedroth    492

I cannot being to imaging what the families and friends of the victims must be going through right now and my thoughts go out to them.

 

When I heard the news this morning, I was quite upset. I've been to this arena multiple times over the years and seen some good bands, it's a good venue with good transport links. Manchester Victoria train station which is next door has been closed all day, causing major travel disruption. 

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+Human.Online    8,677

I am pro-integration.  But today I ask myself at what cost.

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Nick H.    10,111

They've just arrested a 23 year old man in connection with the attack.

 

EDIT: Source:

 

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Sjokkel    8
2 hours ago, dipsylalapo said:

How? How do you stop lone attackers? or this group when we have no idea who "they" are?

Often we do know who they are. After the attacks on Brussels and now in Manchester we had people partying on the streets here after the news got out, people that are protected by both our social security and law.

 

I'm still waiting for the confirmation "...was known by the police for several crimes and relations with muslim fundamentalists" ....

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TPreston    5,389
2 hours ago, dipsylalapo said:

How? How do you stop lone attackers? or this group when we have no idea who "they" are?

You shut up about them and stop giving them what they want national attention. The same goes for school shootings.

In a few hours the killers name and cause will be blasted everywhere for days instead Shut up, Stop reporting on it.

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wv@gt    2,630

Man I feel for the families, and Europe as a whole. It seems to be a much worse situation than here now. 

 

I also feel for Ariana Granda, this is going to hurt for a while 

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7801394/ariana-grande-twitter-manchester-concert

 

Radicalization is a bitch lets not forget that, that is the root cause here, all religions face radical extremists like this scumbag 

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FloatingFatMan    19,056

There is only one way to beat these monsters, and that's by not changing our daily lives. As soon as we do, they've won.

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+Human.Online    8,677

Deal with the crimes, deal with them as criminals to the full extent of the law - remove all ambiguity.  Stop using the Terrorist label as it carries little real weight and really is just an assigned label, stop giving attention to their cause.  

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Nick H.    10,111

 

Not very surprising. Of course, whether or not they were responsible remains to be seen.

 

And it's just come to light that the youngest victim of the attack was of primary school age. I'm not quite sure I understand how ISIS thinks that this will win them any supporters. Then again, these are the same people who strap bombs to their own children and have them walk to military checkpoints. Yet they still manage to entice people to their cause. Sickening.

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TPreston    5,389
5 minutes ago, Nick H. said:
 I'm not quite sure I understand how ISIS thinks that this will win them any supporters.

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/17/islamic-states-goal-eliminating-the-grayzone-of-coexistence-between-muslims-and-the-west/

 

 

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