Deaths confirmed after Manchester Arena blast reports


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+Raze

My condolences to the families and friends of the victims.  And to those killed, may you rest in peace.

 

This is among the lowest of the low to be killing innocent children and people who were just going on with their lives.

 

Rule, Britannia!

 

 

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+trag3dy
1 minute ago, The Evil Overlord said:

Seriously dude?

You're going to bring a hypothetical for my children, I could flip that if I wanted to and let the thread turn into full blown war, I have sided with no one, Tolerance IS the reason we have society, by your thought train which could be seen as equally extreme, should we go back to a time when the nwords were working the cotton fields again?

I didn't mean your kids specifically, I was using it as a general term.

 

And no, tolerance is not why we have modern society. Innovation is. The whole industrial revolution and all of that? Learning to tolerate others and their difference is something that came along with it, an after effect.

 

At any rate, I'm all for tolerance up until a certain point. And that point is when kids start becoming targets for suicide bombers. No other religion in the world (that I know of) tells people that they'll be rewarded in the afterlife for walking into a crowd of people with a bomb strapped to their chest and setting it off.

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The Evil Overlord
Just now, trag3dy said:

I didn't mean your kids specifically, I was using it as a general term.

 

And no, tolerance is not why we have modern society. Innovation is. The whole industrial revolution and all of that? Learning to tolerate others and their difference is something that came along with it, an after effect.

 

At any rate, I'm all for tolerance up until a certain point. And that point is when kids start becoming targets for suicide bombers. No other religion in the world (that I know of) tells people that they'll be rewarded in the afterlife for walking into a crowd of people with a bomb strapped to their chest and setting it off.

Fair enough, I apologise if my earlier response was too provocational

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Legendary
17 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

The point is they agreed that the things he said were general views held by all muslims and not views held by extremists. He said it right at the start of the video.

I'm a Muslim and I do not agree that 'murder is ok'. Neither does any of my family or friends agree. Neither does my local mosque agree. That is why alot of Muslims are supporting Jeremy Corbyn during the upcoming election in the UK, because Jeremy Corbyn doesn't glorify or grandiose war, murder and killing.

 

Maybe you born yesterday. "I heard it on the internet, so it must be true."

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+Raze
2 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

I didn't mean your kids specifically, I was using it as a general term.

 

And no, tolerance is not why we have modern society. Innovation is. The whole industrial revolution and all of that? Learning to tolerate others and their difference is something that came along with it, an after effect.

 

At any rate, I'm all for tolerance up until a certain point. And that point is when kids start becoming targets for suicide bombers. No other religion in the world (that I know of) tells people that they'll be rewarded in the afterlife for walking into a crowd of people with a bomb strapped to their chest and setting it off.

People coming together as a society happened long before the industrial revolution.  Humans began forming social groups many, many millennia ago.  In forming these groups, it involved conformity and also tolerance to allow for some differences (among other factors).

 

Those who instill the desire to kill in the name of religion are extremist and not the norm.  Generalizations can be made of all religions.  When it comes to killing in the name of extreme righteousness no religion is innocent.

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Mockingbird
13 hours ago, T3X4S said:

Only 1 thing that will drive people this bat**it crazy.  Religion.

That's why I am an atheist.

 

I can think rationally with religion out of the way.

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Legendary
8 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

I didn't mean your kids specifically, I was using it as a general term.

 

And no, tolerance is not why we have modern society. Innovation is. The whole industrial revolution and all of that? Learning to tolerate others and their difference is something that came along with it, an after effect.

 

At any rate, I'm all for tolerance up until a certain point. And that point is when kids start becoming targets for suicide bombers. No other religion in the world (that I know of) tells people that they'll be rewarded in the afterlife for walking into a crowd of people with a bomb strapped to their chest and setting it off.

Let me correct you: "No religion in the world would"

 

And let me ask you if you have seen videos of Buddhist Monks burning people alive in Burma. This is not ancient history, this is happening in Burma today. Does that mean that all Buddhists Monks are evil?

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Legendary
32 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

So you want to wait another 60-70 years of having your kids blown up at concerts for them to be re-educated?

 

Tolerance is going to be the death of modern society.

Won't most people agree that it was intolerance that lead to the attack, the intolerant views of the person who blew himself up. Now reread what you just said: Tolerance is going to be the death of modern society. What we need is more tolerance, not less.

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Legendary
43 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

The thing is mate, that's exactly what groups like Daesh want. They WANT people to hate on Muslims, because that pushes more new recruits in their direction.  That's the whole point of these attacks.

Totally agree. That's why need more tolerance and less hate. Just because someone is different from you (in age, gender, race, religion, sex, sexuality, etc), it doesn't make to better (or worse) than them.

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Mockingbird
13 hours ago, Skiver said:

This is the thing that gets me every time one of these attacks happen. It's not typically government buildings, it's not military bases or the people they actually have an issue with.

 

Not to take any horror away from past attacks but this one jumps out as just that step to low, anyone knows this will be full of kids and teenagers. I truly hope I never see the article that lists the ages of those 22 (confirmed) dead and 50+ injured because I think it will be too much to handle. 

 

 

The idea is to make the general public feels unsafe.

 

For example, I was at my school's Extravaganza concert on Sunday.

 

I was searched and thoroughly pat down before I was allowed to enter.

 

I felt uneasy and I am a guy.

 

I could only imagine how my girlfriend felt.

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thealexweb
53 minutes ago, FloatingFatMan said:

The thing is mate, that's exactly what groups like Daesh want. They WANT people to hate on Muslims, because that pushes more new recruits in their direction.  That's the whole point of these attacks.

 

What is this logic? Never say a bad word about Muslims or Islam in general or they will violently turn on you? Its like dealing with gangsters.

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The Evil Overlord
4 minutes ago, thealexweb said:

 

What is this logic? Never say a bad word about Muslims or Islam in general or they will violently turn on you? Its like dealing with gangsters.

I don't think that was what he was implying, rather that the ###### wad responsible for this attack be treated as such for the heinous crime he committed.

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DooGie

I live 7 miles away from Manchester and there are mixed feelings of sadness and defiance. One of my Sons lost a good friend in this horrible attack but is bearing up well.

I feel sorry for the backlash on Muslims which this will cause.

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Mockingbird
13 hours ago, The Evil Overlord said:

I used to think like you, and agree with your sentiment, but their goal is to wipe out everything that doesn't fit into their 'ideals'.

And recently I've been thinking about how much better the world would be if they no longer existed, leaving just the members of the same religion to live in harmony with the rest of the world

 

Hell, I remember a youtube video (over the Christmas period if memory serves) I once watched (appeared originally as a skippable advertisement) of an ex is fighter who returned home, and revealed his findings, infighting, internal conflicts, power struggles, power plays, just a bunch of jumped up ###### wads <spacing to make sure profanity filter catches the f bomb>  trying to fill the void left by their fallen leaders.

 

I can't help but think about how effective the nuclear deterrent is. (This is no way an endorsement to use nukes, rather the psychological impact they have which is why they're not being used).

(I REALLY want to say, we'll keep bombing and killing yours until you cease your campaign against us, but I can't)

Did you just suggested genocide?

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The Evil Overlord
5 minutes ago, DooGie said:

I live 7 miles away from Manchester and there are mixed feelings of sadness and defiance. One of my Sons lost a good friend in this horrible attack but is bearing up well.

I feel sorry for the backlash on Muslims which this will cause.

Sorry to hear that 

(Can't think of anything more comforting to offer, so sorry again)

3 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

Did you just suggested genocide?

OK logged out and logged back in

Have you been following the thread? And the word you needed to use here was suggest.

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NinjaGinger

A religion didn't carry out this attack, a sick individual did.

 

 You show your ignorace. Its pretty obvious you havent read the Koran, or Quoran as some like.

 

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+Raze
1 minute ago, NinjaGinger said:

A religion didn't carry out this attack, a sick individual did.

 

 You show your ignorace. Its pretty obvious you havent read the Koran, or Quoran as some like.

 

Anyone in particular you're replying to?

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Mando
2 hours ago, trag3dy said:

This is a video I like to pull out every time something like this happens and the inevitable "not all muslims" posts start coming out. I would be happy if you could watch it and refute what is being said (and shown):

 

 

"These are general views that every muslim has".

I would tend to personally disagree, thats the views of two out of 1.8billion (or a room full), thats a generalisation mate,you or I do not know if all 1.8billion think the same, any muslims i know certainly are as aghast and disgusted with the terrible act of a british citizen, regardless of that scums beliefs.  

 

Anyhoos I stand corrected about that halfwit Austrian, but the rest still stands to prove the point.

TBH after living in Norway for a while (3 years in Naerbo) due to work placement, i can understand why they would feel so aggrieved, thats not to say i find it acceptable. Lovely country and people, but some things can surprise. Heck i felt like a 2nd class citizen not being fluent in Norwegian, and im whiter than a bottle of milk. (white with a shade of scots blue)

 

I think its safe to say all on here, regardless of race, belief, ideals, find this unacceptable and abhorrent, when children and innocents are maimed and killed like this, just as we see globally children being maimed and killed due to armed conflict, regardless of locale or side.

 

religions dont kill people....how some may interpret said religions can however, the crusades? (just as an example) just as guns dont kill people, people kill people.

 

Id bin all religion tbh if it was up to me, but it isnt. :) 

 

Peace all :)

Edited by Mando
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DocM
53 minutes ago, Mockingbird said:

That's why I am an atheist.

 

I can think rationally with religion out of the way.

And the vast majority of those with religion can think rationally as well. It's largely those Muslims whose heads are stuck in fundamentalist Salafist theology who are causing most of the trouble. 

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Unobscured Vision

@FloatingFatMan And this is why I don't do well dealing with acts of Terrorism bud. I tend to blame entire groups of people when I really shouldn't. I feel like it's their responsibility to get a handle on "their own people", even though I know that Muslims aren't responsible for things that ISIL/ISIS does. I apologise to the Community as a whole for my earlier lack of candor.

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Mando
55 minutes ago, Legendary said:

Totally agree. That's why need more tolerance and less hate. Just because someone is different from you (in age, gender, race, religion, sex, sexuality, etc), it doesn't make to better (or worse) than them.

Agreed!

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+Red King

I am a simple man. I see a Muslim kill 50 homosexuals, I vote Trump. We need more simple men in France and UK.

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Mando
7 minutes ago, Unobscured Vision said:

@FloatingFatMan And this is why I don't do well dealing with acts of Terrorism bud. I tend to blame entire groups of people when I really shouldn't. I feel like it's their responsibility to get a handle on "their own people", even though I know that Muslims aren't responsible for things that ISIL/ISIS does. I apologise to the Community as a whole for my earlier lack of candor.

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar, that must have taken a lot to type mate. 

 

you care a lot, keep it that way as a decent human being,

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FloatingFatMan
7 hours ago, Unobscured Vision said:

@FloatingFatMan And this is why I don't do well dealing with acts of Terrorism bud. I tend to blame entire groups of people when I really shouldn't. I feel like it's their responsibility to get a handle on "their own people", even though I know that Muslims aren't responsible for things that ISIL/ISIS does. I apologise to the Community as a whole for my earlier lack of candor.

Completely understandable.  If you didn't react emotionally to something like this, you wouldn't care about it.  All you're doing is showing you care, and that's a good thing.  What's also a good thing is that justice takes time. This is essential as it removes the emotion from the case and allows us to deal with the guilty in a fair and just manner, without emotions getting in the way.

 

That said, I've read the Qu'ran, and overall, it's a hateful book, full of violence against anyone not a Muslim (ie, the guilty. You're only innocent if you're Muslim).  Thankfully, MOST Muslims don't follow those parts to the letter and are generally nice people.  It's such a shame that those intent on evil are so good at taking those darker passages and convincing people that's what they must do.

 

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Mockingbird
7 hours ago, J. X. Maxwell said:

I am a simple man. I see a Muslim kill 50 homosexuals, I vote Trump. We need more simple men in France and UK.

There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world.

 

You don't have to agree with them, but do you really want 1.6 billion people as your enemies?

 

That's a lot of enemies.

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