Star Trek: Picard (CBS All Access)

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 21/02/2023 at 16:10, George P said:

how heavy it is with the Easter eggs and nostalgia

I feel it’s fair in a 1st episode kinda way. There’s some world building and so on, plus I get the feeling that the past will be relevant here.

So much Star Trek 3 tho, loved it!

[FloatingFatMan]

So, I've just finished watching episode 2 and finally realised what's been bothering me.... The Titan-A.. It's the wrong class of ship!!! I guess I've not really been paying attention, but that is NOT a Luna class design, which the Titan is KNOWN to be! That's a Constitution III !!  What the hell?!  Even with a refit, you don't change a ship class to a completely obsolete century old one!!

 

[Som]

On 24/02/2023 at 15:54, FloatingFatMan said:

So, I've just finished watching episode 2 and finally realised what's been bothering me.... The Titan-A.. It's the wrong class of ship!!! I guess I've not really been paying attention, but that is NOT a Luna class design, which the Titan is KNOWN to be! That's a Constitution III !!  What the hell?!  Even with a refit, you don't change a ship class to a completely obsolete century old one!!

 

said it in the first episode, "Neo" Constitution , what ever that means. I wish they'd turn on the lights

[+primortal Subscriber²]

On 24/02/2023 at 10:54, FloatingFatMan said:

So, I've just finished watching episode 2 and finally realised what's been bothering me.... The Titan-A.. It's the wrong class of ship!!! I guess I've not really been paying attention, but that is NOT a Luna class design, which the Titan is KNOWN to be! That's a Constitution III !!  What the hell?!  Even with a refit, you don't change a ship class to a completely obsolete century old one!!

 

Some info on that, https://gizmodo.com/star-trek-picard-titan-neo-constitution-enterprise-1850128821

Otherwise, episode 2 was pretty good.

Spoiler

Captain Vadic acts like a child with a ship of mass destruction and she knows way too much information about Starfleet.

Worf was awesome and interesting that he's Raffi handler.

I'm still on the fence that Jack is Picard son, let alone naming him after her late husband.  But we'll see and if so, why did Crusher teach him to be a 'criminal'?

I'm liking Shaw

 

[FloatingFatMan]

On 24/02/2023 at 16:12, primortal said:

Some info on that, https://gizmodo.com/star-trek-picard-titan-neo-constitution-enterprise-1850128821

I read that and all I see are the words  "We don't give a flying f*ck about established facts, canon or anything else. We're going throw ALL that away and do what we want because we don't care.

 

On 24/02/2023 at 16:12, primortal said:

Otherwise, episode 2 was pretty good.

  Hide contents

Captain Vadic acts like a child with a ship of mass destruction and she knows way too much information about Starfleet.

Worf was awesome and interesting that he's Raffi handler.

I'm still on the fence that Jack is Picard son, let alone naming him after her late husband.  But we'll see and if so, why did Crusher teach him to be a 'criminal'?

I'm liking Shaw

 

Spoiler

Vadic is your typical OP villain with an OP ship, in much the same way Nero and the Narada were in Abrams Lensflare Trek...

Worf looks GREAT with white hair.

Jack sure as hell doesn't look around 20, which he would HAVE to be... And yes... She wouldn't teach him to be a criminal... Period.

Shaw is a dick. I hope he stays.

Have to say, episode 2 and I'm rapidly going off it already...

 

[George P Global Moderator]

On 24/02/2023 at 18:07, Som said:

said it in the first episode, "Neo" Constitution , what ever that means. I wish they'd turn on the lights

It means what it says, it's a bit of old mixed in with some new.  It actually goes back to the roots of kit bashing the show has done in the past. 

[George P Global Moderator]

On 24/02/2023 at 17:54, FloatingFatMan said:

So, I've just finished watching episode 2 and finally realised what's been bothering me.... The Titan-A.. It's the wrong class of ship!!! I guess I've not really been paying attention, but that is NOT a Luna class design, which the Titan is KNOWN to be! That's a Constitution III !!  What the hell?!  Even with a refit, you don't change a ship class to a completely obsolete century old one!!

 

It's not a old one, aside from sharing some of the older saucer section design from the front.  Anything mid-saucer and back is all new. 

 

And what does it matter if the Titan was a Luna class originally?  The enterprise has changed class 5 times by my count.  

[FloatingFatMan]

On 24/02/2023 at 16:30, George P said:

It's not a old one, aside from sharing some of the older saucer section design from the front.  Anything mid-saucer and back is all new. 

 

And what does it matter if the Titan was a Luna class originally?  The enterprise has changed class 5 times by my count.  

Because it's a refit, not a new build...  And honestly, it's not even really that. The problem is that it's just one more case of the current show runners not giving a flying crap about what already exists and just doing what THEY want because they can.  It's another beardless lady dwarf in LOTR...

[Matthew S.]

Six times @George P.

Also, it's a known fact that ships change class, it's odd that they went with Titian-A, should have been B or C.

[PeterTHX]

On 24/02/2023 at 08:34, FloatingFatMan said:

Because it's a refit, not a new build...  And honestly, it's not even really that. The problem is that it's just one more case of the current show runners not giving a flying crap about what already exists and just doing what THEY want because they can.  It's another beardless lady dwarf in LOTR...

Repeat to yourself it's just a show, I should really just relax...

[George P Global Moderator]

On 24/02/2023 at 18:34, FloatingFatMan said:

Because it's a refit, not a new build...  And honestly, it's not even really that. The problem is that it's just one more case of the current show runners not giving a flying crap about what already exists and just doing what THEY want because they can.  It's another beardless lady dwarf in LOTR...

It's a refit of the constitution class not the Luna class.  We've already established that ship names can be transformed to a different class.  So where is the problem exactly?    Where does it state in the canon that they can't go back and refit / modernize the older designs anymore? 

 

You're making up a issue where there isn't one. 

[Matthew S.]

On 24/02/2023 at 21:07, George P said:

It's a refit of the constitution class not the Luna class.  We've already established that ship names can be transformed to a different class.  So where is the problem exactly?    Where does it state in the canon that they can't go back and refit / modernize the older designs anymore? 

 

You're making up a issue where there isn't one. 

Quiet possibly his issue is the -A designation. 

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/02/2023 at 02:07, George P said:

It's a refit of the constitution class not the Luna class.  We've already established that ship names can be transformed to a different class.  So where is the problem exactly?    Where does it state in the canon that they can't go back and refit / modernize the older designs anymore? 

 

You're making up a issue where there isn't one. 

Because it BUGS me, mainly because of their admission in the press.  They didn't do it for any in-canon reason, they did it because they thought it LOOKS cool and nothing else.  Am I not allowed to get annoyed by things any more?

If your favourite franchise was Fast and Furious, and they decided to swap out all the cool cars for bright pink Prius' because the director liked them, wouldn't that annoy you?

[George P Global Moderator]

On 25/02/2023 at 08:39, FloatingFatMan said:

Because it BUGS me, mainly because of their admission in the press.  They didn't do it for any in-canon reason, they did it because they thought it LOOKS cool and nothing else.  Am I not allowed to get annoyed by things any more?

If your favourite franchise was Fast and Furious, and they decided to swap out all the cool cars for bright pink Prius' because the director liked them, wouldn't that annoy you?

At this point in Trek we should be used to getting new ships in new shows unless they are like SNW and restricted by story setting.  

I mean what was the in-canon reason for the enterprise-e changing class?  And don't tell me it's because the D crashed because we both know that there's more than just one galaxy class ship in the fleet. 

 

No, I bet the reason why is because the creators of first contact wanted a cool new looking ship.    

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 25/02/2023 at 10:48, George P said:

No, I bet the reason why is because the creators of first contact wanted a cool new looking ship.

It’s because it looked better on a cinema screen. So arguably “a ship looking better” is canonically valid.

As for the A registration. Potentially the first Titan wasn’t relevant enough for a legacy registration. You often get new ships observing older names without a legacy. But then the 2nd Titan was - hence the next ship carries that legacy.

On 25/02/2023 at 06:39, FloatingFatMan said:

If your favourite franchise was Fast and Furious, and they decided to swap out all the cool cars for bright pink Prius' because the director liked them, wouldn't that annoy you?

I was mildly annoyed when Michael Bay changed Optimus Prime but I realised that the design was old, this was a new imagining and got over it. Then they revealed the lips…

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 24/02/2023 at 16:07, Som said:

I wish they'd turn on the lights

Ah right, I think I can address this. In established cannon (which I couldn’t give a damn about cos it’s fiction) it’s said that they dim the lights for certain shifts to maintain the illusion of night and day.

We know we have seen the interior of the Titan ad dinner time, and evening by what Vadek says… so there’s that. But yeah, it does feel a bit “constantly dark”, which (to me) feels more warship than exploratory science vessel.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/02/2023 at 10:48, George P said:

At this point in Trek we should be used to getting new ships in new shows unless they are like SNW and restricted by story setting.  

I mean what was the in-canon reason for the enterprise-e changing class?  And don't tell me it's because the D crashed because we both know that there's more than just one galaxy class ship in the fleet. 

 

No, I bet the reason why is because the creators of first contact wanted a cool new looking ship.    

Because the Enterprise is long established as the fleet flagship...  Why would the flagship be an older design if a new one is available?

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/02/2023 at 10:53, Dick Montage said:

I was mildly annoyed when Michael Bay changed Optimus Prime but I realised that the design was old, this was a new imagining and got over it. Then they revealed the lips…

Now imagine those lips are the saucer section of a Trek starship, and the ships computer core has a really bad Jamaican accent...

But anyway, if you guys like it, fine. I don't. I think it looks stupid and ugly and I'm perfectly within my rights to feel that way.

As for the show.  So far it's... oookaaay.... I guess.... But I have a few issues with what I'm sure you guys would call "irrelevant details".... They're not BIG issues, but they exist and they're enough to notice and to consider either lazy writing, or lacking of care for the existing world.  I also feel they're being too big on the action.  That's a fault of modern TV shows so it's not just Trek, but it's a damn shame as it's not really what Trek should be...  Can't we just have an intriguing mystery for a change instead of having to ALWAYS resort to the pew pew?

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 25/02/2023 at 11:06, FloatingFatMan said:

my rights

Oh lord

On 25/02/2023 at 11:06, FloatingFatMan said:

not really what Trek should be... 

loooooool

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/02/2023 at 12:53, Dick Montage said:

Oh lord

loooooool

Selective quoting huh? Figures.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 25/02/2023 at 15:13, FloatingFatMan said:

Selective quoting huh? Figures.

Only selecting that same "old man, not my Trek" stuff you always post.  And don't get me wrong... I get it, it's NOT "your Trek"...  You clearly love the more cerebral old-Trek, and sometimes so do I.  But let's not kid ourselves that it threw cannon straight out the airlock at times.  Heck, there have been more than 4 QUADRANTS at certain times.  Ship names were used, re-used with wild abandon.  Designs have been constantly changed to suit what works either in-production or on-screen (how many variants of the Enterprise D have we seen, I can count 3 - with no in-story narrative to support this).

Is Trek now a bit of a mish-mash of fan-service, left-leaning politics, unlinked story telling, hero-focused sci-fi?  Yes, absolutely it is.  But here's a thing - it always was.

It just feels like you watch a show that you already know won't tick your specific boxes, and then have issue with it - shocking!  It's like you want to watch something you'll dislike just to come across as an old-timer who doesn't like the new stuff.  And I do it too, I genuinely hate what has happened to Transformers, for example.  Now I'm in no-way comparing an 80's cartoon to a 60s TV show, but it holds its place in my heart - as shoddy as it was.  And then Michael Bay (the most annoying director I can name right now) totally changed everything - and released a whole bunch of films that ignored each other, told hyperbole stories that contradicted established idea, and just made a mess.  So I stopped watching them because I knew I'd not enjoy them.  Arguably, I'm now talking about films I've not seen - but I've seen more than 50% of 7(?) films which is sufficient for me to have made my opinion.  And has it crapped all over my childhood?  Has it removed anything?  Nope - I can still re-watch the older stuff if I want, with no reference to the new.

And fair play, I know (for example) that you like Dune, and from previous conversations, you've got me to go and re-watch the 80s movie with Sting.  And yeah, I get the kind of sci-fi you like - I like some of that too.  So why do you seemingly torture yourself with shows you seem to dislike?  I couldn't get into The Expanse, American Horror Story, The Sopranos and possibly others - I gave them a go, I actually REALLY wanted to like them - but just didn't.  So I left them alone.  I may revisit in a few years, cos I know my tastes seem to evolve and change, but why waste my own time watching shows I'm not enjoying?

[FloatingFatMan]

On 26/02/2023 at 12:31, Dick Montage said:

And fair play, I know (for example) that you like Dune, and from previous conversations, you've got me to go and re-watch the 80s movie with Sting.  And yeah, I get the kind of sci-fi you like - I like some of that too.  So why do you seemingly torture yourself with shows you seem to dislike?  I couldn't get into The Expanse, American Horror Story, The Sopranos and possibly others - I gave them a go, I actually REALLY wanted to like them - but just didn't.  So I left them alone.  I may revisit in a few years, cos I know my tastes seem to evolve and change, but why waste my own time watching shows I'm not enjoying?

Why do I continue to watch it?  Because I still have hope.  Just a little, and it's getting smaller.  I don't hate Picard... Some of the stuff is interesting, but a lot of it is just... It's Michael Bay is what it is! I want to see some adventure.. not constant hyped up battles with overpowered enemies that only a Mary Sue can win.  They're cool in the right place, but it's seems to be 90% that, and 10% the rest, and I'm just... tired.. and sad... and I miss my friend.  I want to see Optimus Prime roll out on another adventure to thwart Megatron, not get wrapped up in a confusing fight with 6 dozen new enemies we've never seen before until he winds up in a giant space head playing bad 80's rock music...

Strange New Worlds has taken some strong positive steps in that direction, and Picard could do it too! It's just that... Well, I mean.. Come on man... it's PICARD and he's not meant to act like Ben Sisko!

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

It's Michael Bay is what it is!

That's a bit strong.  I'd love to post all the ways in which Bay is a horrendous director who doesn't actually understand storytelling, character focus, narrative, emotional connections and many more aspects of film-making, but it would be easier to just conjure up an image of a monkey with a camera, that's high on cocaine and furiously masturbating over Tony Scott's Top Gun.

 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

Because I still have hope.

So out of interest, tell me your favourite Star Trek storylines?  Maybe a conversation over message would be better for that...
 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

They're cool in the right place, but it's seems to be 90% that, and 10% the rest

Oh come on, that's really not fair.  We have had two episodes of Picard so far, and there's been essentially one skirmish.  Look at season 2, it was bookended with skirmishes, but beyond that?
 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

and I miss my friend

Mate, I feel that - that got me right in the chest.  But your friend has changed and become something you like less and less, and that happens.
 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

I want to see Optimus Prime roll out on another adventure to thwart Megatron, not get wrapped up in a confusing fight with 6 dozen new enemies we've never seen before until he winds up in a giant space head playing bad 80's rock music..

You and me both, but I guess like you - I've lost the desire for that.  Sure, if a competent director were to say "Here's a War For Cybertron movie, and it's gonna be war, the dark grimness of war, but with 80's style bots", I'd give them my time and money - but I know that I'm not gonna get it - I'm not the demographic they have targeted and I know that Hollyweird currently isn't in a place to even understand such things.
 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

Strange New Worlds has taken some strong positive steps in that direction

MASSIVE steps.  I am loving this show, and I really am keen to see more exploration stories, more stories of encountering new situations that don't involve firing phasers.  Pike is in a unique place to understand the future and it's implications - he has VERY quickly become a loved Captain in my eyes.
 

On 26/02/2023 at 14:56, FloatingFatMan said:

and Picard could do it too! It's just that... Well, I mean.. Come on man... it's PICARD and he's not meant to act like Ben Sisko!

And HE isn't.  I kinda feel like your issue with the show is not him, he's being Picard as far as I can tell.  He forgave his past in season 2 and we're seeing bits of the guy who fought Naussicans and so on.   But the show, a limited series on Prime... It's not for syndication, it's for subscribers - and they need something really marketable and in your face.

[Matthew S.]

My only issue with Season 2 was they retcon'd some of his established past...

Also, he's not acting like Sisko... I don't see prophets or visions ... or "mad man" eques tendencies.   I see him Picarding, doing the right thing just as he's always done.  He's older, and wiser (hopefully), we don't know everything that went on in the 20+ year gap since Nemesis, especially since they technically reset the book universe to align back with the show, would have loved to see them at least bring some of that universe into the show.

Regarding the ship sets, we're not in the '60s-'90s anymore, they have to make them look more futuristic than what was in TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, which were limited by the present technology of our time.  Hell Star Trek Enterprise had more modern panels than TOS-era ships.  I'm somewhat looking forward to when they get to the star ship museum, hopefully, they actually go to the interior of one of the past ships and it does look like a past bridge.

 

One thing I did notice in Episode 1 was there was a slight nod to Scotty about notifying engineering about going to warp 9.99 lol

[George P Global Moderator]

Episode 2s little "twist" didn't surprise anyone, not that they were trying to hide it.  Overall a good episode, characters acting like they should.

Spoiler

People hating on the Titan-a captain because of his attitude but honestly he's doing what he should be doing when you're by the book as it sounds like he is.  Thinking about the safty of his ship and crew over the life of one criminal is reasonable.  Until he finds out it's Picards son and then he goes with it and doesn't object.  Only thing he's a little meh is how he teats 7 at this point.

I'm interested to see how the two plot lines tie in together going forward.