Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead and director hospitalized on 'Rust' movie set

[Michael Scrip]

I agree with Bo Duke:

 

"There's no reason for a bullet to be in a gun on a set."

 

I'm curious to hear their reasons as to why there was live ammunition on a film set. 

 

If you want to use a real gun in a scene... there shouldn't be real bullets within a mile of that gun.  Mistakes happen.  Clearly.  But you can't put real bullets in a gun if they aren't there.

 

And if you must film a scene with an actual firing gun... it should be under a whole other level of protection.  No people in the area... cameras and crew behind bulletproof glass or barriers... etc.

 

Think of Mythbusters when they did all their crazy crap.  They were basically in a bunker when they blew stuff up.  Nobody was in the danger-zone.  And they usually had police or sheriffs on set when they tested gun myths.

[DocM]

On 24/10/2021 at 16:35, warwagon said:

 

 

What John Schneider said 500%, and then some!! 

 

At one point he mentioned non-firearm prop guns. The better ones are 99% identical to a real weapon, and they can be loaded with gas (CO2, propane) which does 3 things; 1) it moves the slide of a semi-auto prop "weapon" back when fired, 2) provides a more realistic recoil (via the forward expulsion of the gas), and 3) it  creates an audible cue  on the sound track which helps the F/X guys synch a fake muzzle flash. They're also dirt cheap compared to a real weapon, and it'd be far cheaper to insure the production.

 

[Michael Scrip]

 

Full Reddit thread:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/qelj37/professional_propmaster_talks_firearm_protocol/

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Michael Scrip

[Gone]

On 22/10/2021 at 04:37, DocM said:

Shades of Brandon Lee's death on the set of The Crow ☹️

 

Thoughts:

 

Blanks can wound or kill at close range, especially the rounds with a hard wax plug which fills the end of the shell (green),

 

 

Or, did someone in the Prop Dept. load the wrong ammo ?

 

Regardless of the ammo, WTF was Baldwin doing shooting in the direction of the directors ??

 

Something's very, very wrong here.

Anti-gun "activist" handles firearms improperly, BREAKS all of the weapons safety rules, kills a woman.

 

Treat, never, keep, keep:

Treat every weapon as if it is loaded

Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

 

In short: Anti-gun activist doesn't understand anything about firearms, blames law abiding gun owners for criminal shootings, ends up killing somebody himself improperly handling a firearm despite his "hatred" for them.

 

Edit: My firearms have shot exactly zero people, both in the USA and "abroad".

[spacelordmaster]

I said it earlier on the conversation that this was going to happen. Here you go.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-risks-being-prosecuted-154449637.html

 

 

[FloatingFatMan]

You'd think they'd have learned something after Brandon Lee's death...

 

Perhaps it's time to make it outright illegal to have REAL firearms on a movie set?  With fake guns being so realistic now, there's no excuse to have the real things anymore.

[DocM]

On 25/10/2021 at 00:56, FloatingFatMan said:

You'd think they'd have learned something after Brandon Lee's death...

 

Perhaps it's time to make it outright illegal to have REAL firearms on a movie set?  With fake guns being so realistic now, there's no excuse to have the real things anymore.

 

In some cases it may be unavoidable; in a war movie certain weapons, and a very few other circumstances like a close-up where the differences would be obvious in a 20 foot image in a theater. In such cases safety is paramount, director & producer egos #6,234. That said,

 

...there is never a reason to have live ammo on the set, EVER, yet these bozos were seen target shooting at the location using the prop guns 😵

 

Un-effing-believable...

 

As I posted a few back there are non-real options for most projects. Certainly this one, where every safety rule in the book was mangled beyond belief.

[DocM]

On 24/10/2021 at 22:32, SpeedyTheSnail said:

Anti-gun "activist" handles firearms improperly, BREAKS all of the weapons safety rules, kills a woman.

 

Treat, never, keep, keep:

Treat every weapon as if it is loaded

Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

 

In short: Anti-gun activist doesn't understand anything about firearms, blames law abiding gun owners for criminal shootings, ends up killing somebody himself improperly handling a firearm despite his "hatred" for them.

 

Edit: My firearms have shot exactly zero people, both in the USA and "abroad".

 

Lets add,

 

Never aim a weapon in the direction of the camera crew (POV shot, as in this incident) without a bulletproof shield

 

Optical quality isn't an issue when using ALON, aluminum oxynitride ceramic/"transparent aluminum", which can be used in optics. 1.25" will stop a .50 BMG armor piercing sniper round cold.  Less needed for this.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 25/10/2021 at 09:18, DocM said:

there is never a reason to have live ammo on the set

This!  A million times this!  There ARE very valid reasons for genuine firearms on set.  Authenticity and so on.  But they can all be altered to either give a CO2 kick, CGI muzzle flash, etc...

 

I cannot fathom one single reason for live ammunition AT ALL.

[+primortal Subscriber²]

 

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 25/10/2021 at 06:56, FloatingFatMan said:

You'd think they'd have learned something after Brandon Lee's death...

 

Perhaps it's time to make it outright illegal to have REAL firearms on a movie set?  With fake guns being so realistic now, there's no excuse to have the real things anymore.

What about films being shot in states where Americans have legal open carry? Have you not seen how in places like Texas it is normal to order a Big Mac armed with a gun?

[FloatingFatMan]

On 25/10/2021 at 14:32, Steven P. said:

What about films being shot in states where Americans have legal open carry? Have you not seen how in places like Texas it is normal to order a Big Mac armed with a gun?

Movie sets are usually on private property, so that shouldn't be too big of an issue... Plenty of work places ban guns even in open carry states.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 25/10/2021 at 16:59, FloatingFatMan said:

Movie sets are usually on private property, so that shouldn't be too big of an issue... Plenty of work places ban guns even in open carry states.

Technically places like McD is also private property, but they respect state gun carry laws while stating it's also up to the franchise.

[+Warwagon MVC]

As I keep watching news about that shooting , i'm still flabbergasted that not a single person checked the gun.

[Gotenks98]

I think the whole thing is sad. But I also think this was a setup. I think an angry MAGA fan wanted to get revenge on Baldwin for all the SNL skits of emperor Cheeto.

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 25/10/2021 at 18:50, Gotenks98 said:

I think the whole thing is sad. But I also think this was a setup. I think an angry MAGA fan wanted to get revenge on Baldwin for all the SNL skits of emperor Cheeto.

Or, the assistant director was known to ignore safety on film sets.. he was the one who handed Alec the gun and has a history and complaints against him for this sort of behavior.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

More and more info is coming to light.  This tragedy is unreal, so many failures by those involved.  😢

 

Crew member who gave Baldwin gun subject of prior complaint (bostonherald.com) - Source

[DocM]

On 25/10/2021 at 09:32, Steven P. said:

What about films being shot in states where Americans have legal open carry? Have you not seen how in places like Texas it is normal to order a Big Mac armed with a gun?

 

There are state defined exclusion zones where you can't carry either open or concealed, and private property owners can put up an sign excluding their property. 

 

As for Texas and open carrying a gun, it was late to the game - only passing less restrictive laws in 2016. Most states liberalized starting in 1993. OTOH, Michigan has had open carry language since 0 before 1837 (statehood.) Even when concealed weapons were restricted open carry was not. 

 

Article  II Section 5 of the 1908 State Constitution, and Article I  Section 6 of the 1963 State Constitution, codified it:

 

“Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.”

 

Open Carry in the US

Edited October 25, 2021 by DocM

[Steven P. Administrators]

Yeah, they are having a field day on social media

 

 

By "they" I mean NRA and MAGA types.

[Buttus]

On 25/10/2021 at 14:43, Steven P. said:

Yeah, they are having a field day on social media

 

By "they" I mean NRA and MAGA types.

I think they just mean that it's ironic that a person so against guns kills someone with a gun.   actually, it even says that in that person's post.

 

still a sad thing, it's a shame that people have to bring politics into everything....

[Michael Scrip]

I guess we should also investigate the political affiliations of the armorer, the assistant director, and anyone else who was in charge of firearms on this movie set...

[DocM]

LA Times...

 

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-24/alec-baldwin-prop-gun-shooting-halyna-hutchins-search-warrant

Quote

>

Souza said three people were handling the gun for the scene: armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, then assistant director Dave Halls, who handed the gun to Baldwin, the affidavit said.

 

Because of COVID-19 safety protocols, the affidavit said, Gutierrez Reed set up three prop guns on a cart left outside Bonanza Creek Ranch’s church set, the focus of the search warrant. Halls did not know live rounds were in the gun that he handed to Baldwin, and Halls yelled “cold gun,” according to the affidavit.

 

And he didn't verify their status as a double-check? Really?

 

Quote

>

When they came back from lunch, a creeping shadow prompted the camera to be moved to a different angle, Russell told the detective. As Baldwin was explaining how he was going to draw his gun and where his arm would be positioned, it discharged, Russell said.

 

And in violation of Trigger Discipline 101, with his index finger on the trigger, I'll bet. It's supposed to be straight, outside the trigger guard.

 

 

Quote

Souza said he was looking over Hutchins’ shoulder when the gun discharged. Hutchins grabbed her midsection, stumbled backward and “was assisted to the ground,” Souza told the detective.

 

Russell recalled hearing a loud bang, seeing a bloody Souza and hearing Hutchins say she couldn’t feel her legs, the affidavit said.

>

 

A total fustercluck 😡

[techbeck]

On 25/10/2021 at 09:07, warwagon said:

As I keep watching news about that shooting , i'm still flabbergasted that not a single person checked the gun.

They apparently had live rounds. Idiots. Not sure why they use real guns. And staff walked off set hours before over safety concerns. 

 

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-movies-santa-fe-alec-baldwin-25d83890a289bb9ae358f406cd3cbee9

[techbeck]

On 23/10/2021 at 18:06, Nerd Rage said:

Not that it will bring the poor woman who died back, but I hope Alec Baldwin sees jail time for this.  

 

He's a hot tempered person who often comes off as supremely unlikable, is always the first to throw judgment at people, and now he fails to follow the extremely simple first and most important rule of firearms......never point a firearm at anyone that you don't intend to shoot.

He bears some responsibility but fault does not solely lie with him.  People walked off set hours before for safety concerns.  So issues been going on for a while and should have been taken seriously. And the fact the one guy had previous complaints.... He should have been watched or never have gotten the job in the first place. 

 

And sorry, silly for someone to be charged just because of their personality. Im not a big Baldwin fan. Never cared for him as an actor. But he needs to be found at fault and personal distain is never a factor.  And I doubt he will see the inside of a court room. Either no charges will be filed, or things will be settled out of court. 

[DocM]

On 25/10/2021 at 17:52, techbeck said:

He bears some responsibility but fault does not solely lie with him.  People walked off set hours before for safety concerns.  So issues been going on for a while and should have been taken seriously. And the fact the one guy had previous complaints.... He should have been watched or never have gotten the job in the first place. 

 

And sorry, silly for someone to be charged just because of their personality. Im not a big Baldwin fan. Never cared for him as an actor. But he needs to be found at fault and personal distain is never a factor.  And I doubt he will see the inside of a court room. Either no charges will be filed, or things will be settled out of court. 

 

Massive civil lawsuits are guaranteed, as well as action by the  government occupational safety folks, but Baldwin was Executive Producer as well as an actor.

 

The EP is like CEO of filming, making sure all the rules are followed & boxes checked. He/she can be held civilly and  criminally responsible for injuries on their watch. As reported, negligent homicide for starters.