Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead and director hospitalized on 'Rust' movie set

[techbeck]

On 25/10/2021 at 06:32, Steven P. said:

Have you not seen how in places like Texas it is normal to order a Big Mac armed with a gun?

People just upset that the Big Mac is smaller than it used to be and fast food keeps screwing up their orders. 😛

[DocM]

On 25/10/2021 at 19:20, techbeck said:

People just upset that the Big Mac is smaller than it used to be and fast food keeps screwing up their orders. 😛

 

Walk into a rural Michigan restaurant this time of year and several to most customers may have a firearm or a bow. Archery & gun deer seasons run from September into  January, and hunters get quite hungry. 

 

No one in their right mind would attempt a robbery 😂

[+mram Subscriber²]

On 24/10/2021 at 19:32, SpeedyTheSnail said:

Anti-gun "activist" handles firearms improperly, BREAKS all of the weapons safety rules, kills a woman.

 

Treat, never, keep, keep:

Treat every weapon as if it is loaded

Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

 

In short: Anti-gun activist doesn't understand anything about firearms, blames law abiding gun owners for criminal shootings, ends up killing somebody himself improperly handling a firearm despite his "hatred" for them.

 

Edit: My firearms have shot exactly zero people, both in the USA and "abroad".

You've probably never been an actor where you are...

 

1. Required to "act" like you're firing that gun at someone else.

2. Been in a situation where the gun is fundamentally the responsibility of someone else, because you're not a responsible gun owner. You clearly are.  But consider those other people.

 

I've been trained in the military about gun and rifle safety and I completely agree with your sentiments on their own merit.  However, actors by trade do not carry that discipline.  I can hand my kids guns (hypothetically!!! - I dont own any) and it is 100% my responsibility whether they are loaded or not.  Same idea here: I'm responsible, THEY are playing.

 

In short:  your rules only apply to responsible gun owners.  He's not one.  Never claimed to be.  He's an actor playing a part.  Someone else handed him the gun.

 

Now imagine contextually movies like John Wick.  Is Keanu supposed to inspect all 192831265123712 bullets fired in every single take?  Should he never point a gun at people?  Actors are actors.  Maybe they should be more responsible.  But lets not presume that people don't have their very specific roles to perform in production.  I'm not judge and jury here, I just have to say that the idea that an ACTOR should be responsible for the gun they are firing is a little ridiculous. There are a metric ton of ACTORS who never held a gun in their life before ACTING, and are required to because of the role.  Thats why other people are around to ensure everything is safe.

 

What I do agree with:  There never should've been live bullets anywhere near the set.

And if you think the ACTORS had anything to do with live bullets accidentally or incidentally being anywhere near the set, you'd be wrong.  I bet you a gadjillion pesos that every actor assumes blanks are in play, because someone else did the work.  Because the ACTORS don't freaking want to kill ANYONE.

Everything else is just advocating for more safety and I agree.

[tmorris1]

On 25/10/2021 at 18:47, DocM said:

 

Walk into a rural Michigan restaurant this time of year and several to most customers may have a firearm or a bow. Archery & gun deer seasons run from September into  January, and hunters get quite hungry. 

 

No one in their right mind would attempt a robbery 😂

And it is kind of funny in place like that where there are lots of guns and nobody gets shot on a daily basis like in some areas?  Almost like guns aren't any worse than the people using them.

[DocM]

On 25/10/2021 at 20:54, tmorris1 said:

And it is kind of funny in place like that where there are lots of guns and nobody gets shot on a daily basis like in some areas?  Almost like guns aren't any worse than the people using them.

Just like impaired  drivers, etc.

[tmorris1]

On 25/10/2021 at 19:19, mram said:

You've probably never been an actor where you are...

 

1. Required to "act" like you're firing that gun at someone else.

2. Been in a situation where the gun is fundamentally the responsibility of someone else, because you're not a responsible gun owner. You clearly are.  But consider those other people.

 

I've been trained in the military about gun and rifle safety and I completely agree with your sentiments on their own merit.  However, actors by trade do not carry that discipline.  I can hand my kids guns (hypothetically!!! - I dont own any) and it is 100% my responsibility whether they are loaded or not.  Same idea here: I'm responsible, THEY are playing.

 

In short:  your rules only apply to responsible gun owners.  He's not one.  Never claimed to be.  He's an actor playing a part.  Someone else handed him the gun.

 

Now imagine contextually movies like John Wick.  Is Keanu supposed to inspect all 192831265123712 bullets fired in every single take?  Should he never point a gun at people?  Actors are actors.  Maybe they should be more responsible.  But lets not presume that people don't have their very specific roles to perform in production.  I'm not judge and jury here, I just have to say that the idea that an ACTOR should be responsible for the gun they are firing is a little ridiculous. There are a metric ton of ACTORS who never held a gun in their life before ACTING, and are required to because of the role.  Thats why other people are around to ensure everything is safe.

 

What I do agree with:  There never should've been live bullets anywhere near the set.

And if you think the ACTORS had anything to do with live bullets accidentally or incidentally being anywhere near the set, you'd be wrong.  I bet you a gadjillion pesos that every actor assumes blanks are in play, because someone else did the work.  Because the ACTORS don't freaking want to kill ANYONE.

Everything else is just advocating for more safety and I agree.

None of that is an excuse for anyone on that set.

 

The rules of safely handling a firearm apply to everyone, not just responsible gun owners.  There is no reason that any actor handling a gun and preaching to all of us how guns are bad should not have had any gun safety training.

Always assume a gun is loaded and never point the gun at something unless you intend to shoot it, etc.

Nobody should be handling a gun if they have never had a gun safety training.  Actors are no different than anyone else and don't live by another set of rules.  If somebody handed me a gun and said it was unloaded and told me to point it at that person (never should happen in real life, but I get it that it is a movie), I would check myself to make sure before doing it.  It makes no sense that a gun capable of firing a live round was anywhere on that set.

Another thing is they keep calling this a "Prop gun"....  It was not a prop gun, it was a GUN.  Prop guns can't kill people.

 

Maybe these clowns should worry about themselves instead of preaching their virtues to everyone else.  They will have all the excuses why it wasn't his or anyone's fault.

Edited October 26, 2021 by tmorris1

[+primortal Subscriber²]

Quote

 

The assistant director who handed Alec Baldwin the gun that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on a movie set last week had been fired from a film in 2019 after a gun unexpectedly discharged on the set, injuring a crew member, a producer for that film said Monday.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rust-assistant-director-was-fired-2019-movie-after-gun-discharged-n1282339

[spacelordmaster]

Everyone on that set was at fault. From the so-called armorer to the actor himself. They all should have checked that gun before using it. Armorer hands gun to director, director checks the gun. Director gives actor the gun, actor checks the gun. The mistake actor made was trusting the people who handed him that gun instead of checking it like he was supposed to before using it. Always treat a gun as if its loaded, no matter what whoever is handing it to you tells you. Common sense 101.

[dead.cell]

On 24/10/2021 at 21:32, SpeedyTheSnail said:

Anti-gun "activist" handles firearms improperly, BREAKS all of the weapons safety rules, kills a woman.

 

Treat, never, keep, keep:

Treat every weapon as if it is loaded

Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot

Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

 

In short: Anti-gun activist doesn't understand anything about firearms, blames law abiding gun owners for criminal shootings, ends up killing somebody himself improperly handling a firearm despite his "hatred" for them.

 

Edit: My firearms have shot exactly zero people, both in the USA and "abroad".

I'm not a gun nut, nor is my family, but this was pretty much ingrained by my step-dad when just firing BB and pellet guns. I can't imagine being handed any sort of weapon without at least double or triple checking it...

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 26/10/2021 at 18:45, dead.cell said:

I'm not a gun nut, nor is my family, but this was pretty much ingrained by my step-dad when just firing BB and pellet guns. I can't imagine being handed any sort of weapon without at least double or triple checking it...

Unfortunately, Alec may have been handed a cold prop gun tens of times during that day, the one time he doesn't check...

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:54, Steven P. said:

Unfortunately, Alec may have been handed a cold prop gun tens of times during that day, the one time he doesn't check...

That's assuming he checked the other 10 times.

[Gerowen]

You would think at this point they'd have modified weapons specifically for this purpose that can't accept real cartridges, but look the part from the outside.  Even when I was a kid we had little pop-cap pistols you could get from the dollar store that had a real life rotating cylinder and everything.

[DocM]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:24, Gerowen said:

You would think at this point they'd have modified weapons specifically for this purpose that can't accept real cartridges, but look the part from the outside.  Even when I was a kid we had little pop-cap pistols you could get from the dollar store that had a real life rotating cylinder and everything.

 

In most cases they already exist, some using CO2 or propane gas to move an automatic or semi-autos action realistically, cause visible recoil, eject fake shells, etc.  More than a few filmmakers have used the high end Airsofts, and there are others. Some are available on Amazon fercrissake.

 

In this case it's simpler, the film being set in the 1880s. There are innumerable non-functioning (but with a working action) replicas of the Colt 1873 Single Action, Remington 1858 Army cap and ball (and the later cartridge conversion), and the Remington 1875 single  action, all common at the time. 

 

https://www.westernstageprops.com/category-s/1854.htm

 

https://www.bytheswordinc.com/c-1056-americana-and-western-pistol-non-firing-replicas.aspx

 

All these need for a film is dummy rounds; they look real but have no powder, being filled with small metal pellets which  rattle for confirmation, and the projectile is fake. $10-25 for 6. Add the muzzle flash with CGI, using the dry-fire "click" in the audio track as the cue.

Edited October 26, 2021 by DocM

[dead.cell]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:56, warwagon said:

That's assuming he checked the other 10 times.

This. If someone tampered with it in between, I'd have a hard time holding Baldwin accountable and would look to the ignorance/negligence or potentially malicious behavior of someone adding live rounds.

 

Still though, I always check mine whenever I pick it up simply because I don't trust my own memory. It takes but a couple seconds...

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 26/10/2021 at 12:51, dead.cell said:

This. If someone tampered with it in between, I'd have a hard time holding Baldwin accountable and would look to the ignorance/negligence or potentially malicious behavior of someone adding live rounds.

 

Still though, I always check mine whenever I pick it up simply because I don't trust my own memory. It takes but a couple seconds...

Just take hickock45 (youtube) he checks that gun every 30 seconds lol

[tmorris1]

On 26/10/2021 at 12:51, dead.cell said:

This. If someone tampered with it in between, I'd have a hard time holding Baldwin accountable and would look to the ignorance/negligence or potentially malicious behavior of someone adding live rounds.

It is in his hands, he is responsible.  He should have checked.

[DocM]

On 26/10/2021 at 14:22, tmorris1 said:

It is in his hands, he is responsible.  He should have checked.

Everyone from the armorer to the actor should have checked. 

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:22, tmorris1 said:

It is in his hands, he is responsible.  He should have checked.

And how many hands held the gun before Alex? None of them checked either.

[DocM]

Jeffrey Wright plays Commissioner Jim Gordon in The Batman.

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/26/1049211806/hollywood-stars-say-they-are-stunned-by-mismanaged-set-in-fatal-prop-gun-shootin

 

Quote

Hollywood stars say they are stunned by mismanaged set in fatal prop-gun shooting

>

Jeffrey Wright, who has worked on projects including the James Bond franchise and the upcoming movie The Batman, was acting with a weapon on the set of Westworld when news broke of the shooting Thursday at a New Mexico ranch. "We were all pretty shocked. And it informed what we did from that moment on," he said in an interview Sunday at the Newport Beach Film Festival.

 

"I don't recall ever being handed a weapon that was not cleared in front of me — meaning chamber open, barrel shown to me, light flashed inside the barrel to make sure that it's cleared," Wright said. "Clearly, that was a mismanaged set."

>

Actor Ray Liotta agreed with Wright that the checks on firearms are usually extensive.

 

"They always — that I know of — they check it so you can see," Liotta said. "They give it to the person you're pointing the gun at, they do it to the producer, they show whoever is there that it doesn't work."

>

 

[techbeck]

Apparently they also found live ammunition on the set. In like a fanny pack or something.

[dead.cell]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:22, tmorris1 said:

It is in his hands, he is responsible.  He should have checked.

??? I'm in agreement with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but again, we're talking about seconds at best to check a gun. Anyone trying to play a violin for Baldwin isn't really gaining my sympathy.

 

Hopefully, this means that going forward, better safety practices are pressed. Not only would it save lives, but it's hard to imagine millions of dollars being poured into a project only for it to go to waste because some jackass (or team of jackasses) didn't do their due diligence to protect their investment. Same can be said for pretty much every stunt for that matter, not just gun safety.

[xrobwx71]

On 23/10/2021 at 20:25, primortal said:

 Ultimately the person in charge of this production should be held accountable.

Which is.....Alec Baldwin

[techbeck]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:09, xrobwx71 said:

Which is.....Alec Baldwin

Doubt anything much will happen. Most, imo, would be a settlement out of court. 

[+primortal Subscriber²]

On 26/10/2021 at 16:09, xrobwx71 said:

Which is.....Alec Baldwin

Baldwin is one of many producers for the movie and probably in title only involvement.

 

A live round should have never been loaded into a gun in the first place if actual filming wasn't taking place.  The question is how many actors that use guns in movies actually "check" the gun beforehand.

[DocM]

On 26/10/2021 at 16:55, primortal said:

Baldwin is one of many producers for the movie and probably in title only involvement.

 

He's the Executive Producer. 

 

Def: In films, executive producers may finance the film, participate in the creative effort, or work on set. Their responsibilities vary from funding or attracting investors into the movie project to legal, scripting, marketing, advisory and supervising capacities.

 

On 26/10/2021 at 16:55, primortal said:

 

A live round should have never been loaded into a gun in the first place if actual filming wasn't taking place.  The question is how many actors that use guns in movies actually "check" the gun beforehand.

 

According to the NPR interviews of Jeffrey Wright and Ray Liotta, linked to and quoted above and here, it's standard procedure. This was a massive aberration.