irdawood Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 anyways guys it really dont matter i dont care what anyone uses everyone has their own taste just opinions that everyone should be entitled to im not backing out of my opinion just getting bored thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Originally posted by Bain lol :p :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 don't get me wrong, I'm not biased towards the Intel P4, it's just that it meets my needs for computing and I know I won't have any problems when it comes to overheating. In a month or so I'm going to be building another PC and it'll be an AMD XP, they are both great processors :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 yeah thats the way to think i dont think Intel is sum baddy out to get me lol :D and your right they are both good Cpu's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 ya i understand i've had and AMD K6-2 400 mhz processor before i dont know how it compares to a P2 400 mhz or celeron because i have never had any at that speed but it was okay i guess its just annoying when these fanboys insist on saying how great their AMD XP's are all because of a benchmark im sure if the first benchmark was in Intels favor even if it was a doctored benchmark everybody would be on its balls instead i go by what people have told me and what i experience cause benchmarks dont reflect on my everyday computing, but people and expereince do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sOma Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Where can I find documented proof that does not come in the form of benchmarks that will tell me intel processors are better than AMD processors? And why are benchmark tests considered meaningless by intel supporters? What superior method are intel supporters using that has given them different results that make benchmark tests meaningless? The people who support AMD have posted some links that show proof of what they are talking about... but I haven't seen any websites posted here that show any proof that intel's processors are better than AMD's... You can't expect everyone to just accept your word for it and believe intel is better simply because you say so... If you don't have proof to backup your arguments, don't bother arguing at all... just some friendly advice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 hey freeza i must admit the first AMD's the K5 and K6 were crap get your self an AMD next time or go to a mtaes who has a 2000XP AMD u will be suprized how things have moved on... my final thought....(sounding like jerry springer).... is as long as there is Intel and an AMD prices will be low and speeds will be High..... and we are the real winners lol lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 s0ma, You see the thing is, neither processor is better than the other in an overall aspect. One processor may be better than the other in a certain area, vice versa. All you can do is look at all the pro's and con's between the two and make an opinion with the information you've gotten between the two. They are both excellent processors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 brain................is calming the situation down..........trying to get rid of any fuel that may start up another fire.....:rambo: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phyrexia Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 When i was about to change mu system from a PIII 800 768 pc133 i had the same problem, atlon xp or p4 , personally i`v used intel,amd,cyrix, even Texas instrument since my 286 (i used to sell and change my computer almos every 2 weeks) and to be honest i like better intel, amd may be cheap but i had to set un different kinds of fans , cooler etc, just becouse AMD Works hotter and that is a fact , i fell more secure working on a intel p4 becouse i know that it wont fry even if it gets 90?c but an amd start working between the 80?c and so on... and if you read some from the net , cooler means faster becouse the electric resistence of the material change on teh material temperature , so if the Cpu is cooler it will have less resistance , in consecuence it will work baster , and it wonk hang up. Also the p4 system acquitecture is more powerfull tan Amd, even Windows xp cant use the full potencial of the procesor , but i belive that the new generation of games and OS will do. All this is using RIMM not DDR. An finally if you get yourself a good scsi controller and 512+ RIMM you will se you p4 rech the sky. So i ratter have my P4 than and atlon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 haha, just call me "Bain The Mediator" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 benchmarks dont make the processor they are a one time test that tests the full potential (maybe, depending on how they are programmed) of the processor thats why they do NOT matter experience and user opinions matter. if benchmarks were NEVER in the scenario at all i wonder how the AMD vs Intel war would turn out and it really makes me wonder does AMD's processors hold that much gain over an intel one that one would be able to tell the difference between the two had benchmarking programs never been made or if you had two identical pcs sitting in front of you cept one was AMD and one was Intel and you were told to run a series of apps just to see which one you liked the feel of more..i doubt any of us would actually be able to tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synz Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 I am gonna take a flying leap off a short cliff and guess that you are all males on this thread, ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregHard Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 AMD chips have ALWAYS beat intel's chips in 95% of tests and benchmarks. And benchmarks DO matter. AMD's XP chip (1800+) beats out the P4 2.2GHz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bain Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 MasterMind, how often do you actually push your processor to the extent that those benchmarks do? That's what I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemo Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Originally posted by freeza benchmarks dont make the processor they are a one time test that tests the full potential (maybe, depending on how they are programmed) of the processor thats why they do NOT matter experience and user opinions matter. if benchmarks were NEVER in the scenario at all i wonder how the AMD vs Intel war would turn out and it really makes me wonder does AMD's processors hold that much gain over an intel one that one would be able to tell the difference between the two had benchmarking programs never been made or if you had two identical pcs sitting in front of you cept one was AMD and one was Intel and you were told to run a series of apps just to see which one you liked the feel of more..i doubt any of us would actually be able to tell the difference. Actually.. I can tell the difference.. Personally, i've never used a p4 system or an athlonxp system. but i'd get the athlon over the p4 anyday. I have a 900mhz @ 1ghz Athlon. My cousin has a 933PIII. I can tell the difference between the two computers after using it for 5 minutes. Before i upgraded to a 900 i had a 650 in my comp. I was running ME and so was my cousin. My computer ran much faster and did not crash nearly as much as his pIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sOma Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Bain: I agree, but from what I have seen, each group seems to believe one is better than the other... and no offense, but I'm seeing a better argument from the AMD supporters than the Intel supporters... And personally, I'm tired of hearing how useless benchmark tests are without any proof that it really is useless... I am not against Intel... I respect them. I just have a problem with people who present opinions disquised as facts... facts do not exist without documented proof. freeza: Benchmarks do not make the processor, I agree... but neither do user opinions... Opinions are not facts. As for benchmarks being a one time test... I don't agree... We have seen benchmark tests over and over again on amd processors... there have been multiple tests conducted by various different people, correct? If user opinions do matter to you, then why have you been arguing with the many users of AMD systems? Are their opinions not worth anything to you? And what about their experience? Personally, I don't believe anything until I see documented proof from a reliable source... opinions are unstable, unreliable, and they are not necessarily what my opinions would be. I would however believe something if a large number of people have conducted tests with programs to measure speed, and compare speed... That's enough proof for me to accept that one processor may be good. What you are saying really makes no sense to me... If a hundred people got together, and each had a different calculator, and each were given the same mathematical equation, and each got the same result, would you believe the numbers that were being displayed on the calculators were incorrect? Probably not... so if you don't argue with a calculator that calculates numbers, why argue with a calculator that calculates processor speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 AMD supporters have no argument anyone with decent programming knowledge can make a program to favor any processor sorry to burst your bubble bit i can go in vb spend 15 minutes making some useless app to take around 20 minutes to conduct various tests that dont do **** but just tell you they are doin things then at the very end it will display random numbers favoring AMD or intel or whatever processor i choose benchmarks are a useless waste of time they are ONLY good in video cards..processors over a certain ghz speed the benchmarks are useless in and they only serve the purpose to feed the AMD crowd info so they can run back and have more ammo to shoot out about how their cpu can outperform some one elses just cause some old guy on a website said the benchmark he ran favored the AMD processor opinions matter a lot more than what a program says because those opinoins are based up on the results a program like that give now like i said earlier had NO ONE thought of programming something that benchmarks your cpu AMD fans would have NO legitimate reason to say the processor is better once again it is their ONLY defense and will always be just give it up already if everybody relied on what programs said rather than what users experience we'd be in a heap of trouble. why do you think people conduct BETA tests where the USER does things? if microsoft created a program to test every version of windows and we all just went happy go lucky sayin yeah windows is so reliable cause the ms benchmark said so but yet we have crashes every damn day (equivalent to overheating of AMD processors) everybody would be baffled. its as plain as day to see that overheating is a problem no matter how much of you say yeahh i ran mine with what it came with with NO problems yeah im cool. the websites you trust so much have said that there ARE overheating issues so dont try and use benchmarks to your advantage but shrug off the overheatnig issue like ugh thats so not true when it really is. its pathetic how everybody is so quick to jump on the bandwagon of a program result rather than what they experience their damn selves yeah im pretty sure if the performance were that big of a difference that you could actually notice a slow down ina p3 vs athlon system and im not talking about their lame XP then intel would have done something about it. had you not known your cousin had a p3 im sure your statement would have been a lot different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sOma Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 If Microsoft created a program to test every version of windows, I would not trust it. But in this case, these are AMD customers doing these tests, don't forget. They are not AMD employees. I would not believe one program, but I would believe multiple programs that were being used to test the speed by AMD CONSUMERS. And obviously, these people experienced both AMD and Intel processors during the tests they conducted. Opinions mean nothing to me... It was once an opinion that the sun revolved around the earth, it was once an opinion that the earth was flat, and it was once an opinion that by allowing someone to nearly bleed to death, you could drain them of a certain disease or sickness they had... Your opinion is not better than anyone else's, but there is one thing that is better than an opinion... one thing that makes an opinion false... and that is a fact. Each of the opinions I mentioned here have been proved wrong with facts, therefore opinions are not always correct, right? Speed is not measured by opinions, it is measured by tests... it has been for a while... we don't measure horsepower by opinions do we? You cannot accurately measure something with an opinion, but you can accurately measure something with a tool that has been created just for that purpose... Tests are more accurate than opinions... If that were not true, then the town I live in would not be famous for the testing of the a-bomb, we would have already cloned a human without ever testing it out on an animal first, and cars would be even more dangerous than they are now. Do you see my point? Without tests, there would be chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macachia Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 hey all..very interesting subject..though not all have valid points before i forget, the person who said that amd fans are stupid..think twice..i myself am in a dentistry course at my local university anyways, back to the subject in the begginning of december, i migrated from a p4 1.5 to an athlonxp 1900+. To say the truth, using normal software such as microsoft word etc..doesn't show the difference between the two processors (unless a centi-second timer is used) the difference is seen in benchmarks. I totally agree that benchmarks are not everything in real-life software. And quake 3 and other 3d programs DO NOT show the full power of the cpu as some ppl said earlier (i think freeza, very good points by the way), it is easier to favour a certain cpu brand by using specific coding. amd may be faster than intel at the same cpus, BUT amd are coming near to the 0.18 micron architecture.. this is seen in overclocking, amd cpus need drastic heatsinks and fans 9and sometimes watercooling, and liquid nitrogen cooling). This means that if amd does not shift to the 0.13 micron, it will loose certain advantages that it owns right now..such as overall speed 0.13micron amd cpus remain to be seen also, remember the fsb speeds..intel should soon release their 533mhz fsb cpus (133*4)..and in my opinion this can outpace amd cpus quite a bit..unless seious overclockign occurs. [again... i am not favouding intel at all] price and cost is also an issue..amd costs a whole lot less than intel cpus. a ddr athlon xp system is cheaper than a sdr p4 system..this is the reason my friends bought amd systems. If intel lowers their prices..coupled with ddr, they so a whole lot better in sales someone earlier..mentined amd/via motherboard chipsets. Amd 761 chipsets motherboards such as the gigabyte 7dxr/7dxr+ that i have is in my opinion a perfect solution for amd cpus..no rpoblems at all. I tried a via kt266a motherboard, and i had a little touble with a sb live!, but it seems some via4in1 drivers solve the issues. intel chipsets on the other hands are almost perfect..althoughi remember my p3 motherboard was once recalled ad exchanged for a 820 chipset with rambus ram :) to conclude with- amd cpus - cheap faster than intel cpus at same clock rates need a good motherboard amd heatsink/fan intel cpus - very reliable great overclocking property (northwood core) intel heatsink more than enough ANYONE who agrees or doesn't agree can post..and i will see where i went wrong in this post regards SYSTEM - amd athlon xp 1900+ 512 ddr ram pc266 gigabyte 7dxr mb nvidia gef3 ti200 (soon to be replaced) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krome Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Here's my choice: Pentium Here's my input. Most AMD user wants power. Most AMD users are very young and new to computers. In reality, if you want power, you get power but you will loose quality. AMD users does not understand what quality is. To them, power is speed, speed is power. That's all they care. Don't talk quality to them. They'll make you think that power is their quality of their CPU. Yes. But quality and reliability has to be equal out or you else you don't have quality. They are young. It will take times for them to understand everything. The law of the universe is if you want the best of one thing, you have to sacrifice another. That's what AMD chip is all about. They neglect reliability over quality. I am not surprise if AMD user wouldn't understand my wide-spectrum of logical reasoning. Once you are fixed to something, it's hard for you to give it up. What I would be surprise is if there's Intel (Pentium) users that are very young. This is because they are smarter than average. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie9920 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 Originally posted by sOma Where can I find documented proof that does not come in the form of benchmarks that will tell me intel processors are better than AMD processors? And why are benchmark tests considered meaningless by intel supporters? What superior method are intel supporters using that has given them different results that make benchmark tests meaningless? The people who support AMD have posted some links that show proof of what they are talking about... but I haven't seen any websites posted here that show any proof that intel's processors are better than AMD's... You can't expect everyone to just accept your word for it and believe intel is better simply because you say so... If you don't have proof to backup your arguments, don't bother arguing at all... just some friendly advice... Heres some proof for you. I garantee you won't overclock an Athlon XP to 3ghz+. http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020117/ If you want to see some benchies here you go. http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/0201...p4_3000-04.html , there are a few pages of benchies. :) As you will see, Intel's best(The non-overclocked one), the 2200A comes out on top of most of the benchmarks against the best AMD has to offer..the XP 2000+. The XP actually beats it in a couple of the benchies, but not by much. In the real world nobody is going to be able to tell the difference between the best of AMD or Intel. The numbers are just for bragging rights(for the geeks..not many normal people really care). They are all fast as hell. I for one would rather have a processor that is a milosecond slower if I know it won't ever burn up and it doesn't need a cooling setup that sounds like a jet. Who said the Athlon was better for video stuff? It looks like to me that the P4 does video stuff like MPEG encoding better according to the benchies. The sad part is, Toms Hardware is Biased for AMD, but at least he shows the truth. Another sad thing is, Intel could easily release thier the P4 Northwood@ 3ghz+(not overclocked) while AMD will still be stuck at under 2ghz for a long time because thier processors run way too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike3169 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 wooo the testosterone is flying in here. Have you guys ever seen a Athlon have the HSF removed while it was running? Ever seen a P4 with the HSF removed while it was running? Well, I luv my Athlon, but, the Athlon catches on fire while the P4 keeps going... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irdawood Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 why would someone wanna take their fan off during mid opperation?????????????????????????? and you buy a good CPU heat sink so it doesnt conk out as for the guy that says about the nortwood being faster..... the 2000XP is 1.67ghz the nortwood is 2.2ghz theoretticlly the AMD should be no where near the 2.2 but yet it beats it on several benchmarks as for the guy about overclocking..... if u cool a cpu with liquid nitorgen(purly for fun) and tewak the motherboard u can reach high speeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeza Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 very good points, zombie,macachia,krome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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