official World of Warcraft

[gigapixels Veteran]

Hah, i don't know if any of you have seen this video but here: (no offense to the Germans, I only thought the video was funny (it still is :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JF03i7NfIU

:laugh: That was pretty good, though I still think the best version is the one where he is banned from XBL :D

[Erland]

I'm feeling a bit lost in WoW at the moment. I'm not far of dinging to 58 and then I can head to Outland where the rest of my guild are, but I feel like I've lost out by not doing more than half a dozen raids. Time commitments etc meant that while the majority of people in our guild got to 70 quickly, I've always been lagging behind.

I really enjoy PvP battlegrounds, well, when you're not in a group of hk farmers and you can use some tactics, but on Spinebreaker it's almost as if everyone is just after honor and nothing else.

I keep getting asked to tank, but I've spec'd up in Arms, a bit in Fury and a couple of points in Protection and I'm using a two handed, so I think being spec'd wrong and not having tanking gear would render me a bit useless and get everyone wiped a bit.

[Emorex]

I'm feeling a bit lost in WoW at the moment. I'm not far of dinging to 58 and then I can head to Outland where the rest of my guild are, but I feel like I've lost out by not doing more than half a dozen raids. Time commitments etc meant that while the majority of people in our guild got to 70 quickly, I've always been lagging behind.

I really enjoy PvP battlegrounds, well, when you're not in a group of hk farmers and you can use some tactics, but on Spinebreaker it's almost as if everyone is just after honor and nothing else.

I keep getting asked to tank, but I've spec'd up in Arms, a bit in Fury and a couple of points in Protection and I'm using a two handed, so I think being spec'd wrong and not having tanking gear would render me a bit useless and get everyone wiped a bit.

Alright, let's address each point one at a time.

1) Raids are normally done at max level, so in this case 70. You haven't 'lost out' on anything. Once you hit 70, your guild will take you to some lower level raids, get you geared up there, then take you through the upper level raids so you can catch up to them. It's ok if you hit 70 later. It's actually better :p Since everyone else in your guild is so heavily geared, you can just join them in heroics and get run through easily. This is what my guild is doing with me at the moment.

2) Everyone in battlegrounds is generally after honor, for items. You can try to join a premade, but I find these hard. In the end, just play by yourself or with a couple friends and just do whatever you want.

3) You don't have to tank if you don't want to. I don't plan on tanking on my warrior, and that's just a choice I made. If others have a problem with it, they can deal with it.

[Erland]

Alright, let's address each point one at a time.

1) Raids are normally done at max level, so in this case 70. You haven't 'lost out' on anything. Once you hit 70, your guild will take you to some lower level raids, get you geared up there, then take you through the upper level raids so you can catch up to them. It's ok if you hit 70 later. It's actually better :p Since everyone else in your guild is so heavily geared, you can just join them in heroics and get run through easily. This is what my guild is doing with me at the moment.

2) Everyone in battlegrounds is generally after honor, for items. You can try to join a premade, but I find these hard. In the end, just play by yourself or with a couple friends and just do whatever you want.

3) You don't have to tank if you don't want to. I don't plan on tanking on my warrior, and that's just a choice I made. If others have a problem with it, they can deal with it.

I suppose that's a good way at looking at it! The grind from l50 to here has been labourious, but when I can get to Outland it won't seem so much like I'm constantly playing catchup so much.

In WSG the other night it turned into a complete hk fest right by the bottom of our cliff, with no one doing the objectives. I ended up joining in when I realised that I wasn't going to be getting anyone to do that and it was just time to get hk myself.

I like it :) I'd probably not be good for instances as I can only usually spare an hour or so a night, which is why I like PVP because it doesn't consume your entire evening and you can drop out when you can without ruining it for everyone

[Emorex]

I suppose that's a good way at looking at it! The grind from l50 to here has been labourious, but when I can get to Outland it won't seem so much like I'm constantly playing catchup so much.

In WSG the other night it turned into a complete hk fest right by the bottom of our cliff, with no one doing the objectives. I ended up joining in when I realised that I wasn't going to be getting anyone to do that and it was just time to get hk myself.

I like it :) I'd probably not be good for instances as I can only usually spare an hour or so a night, which is why I like PVP because it doesn't consume your entire evening and you can drop out when you can without ruining it for everyone

Yup, that's the way I look at it too. Also, you will find outlands to be a whole lot more fun than Azeroth. Especially the first 3 levels (I normally go at level 60....just a thing with me, and I think it's a bit easier), you will upgrade every piece of armor. Also, you will find, at first you get hit way too hard and have to eat/bandage almost every other fight. This is normal! once you complete the initial 5-6 quests, you will replace like 3-4 pieces of gear and get lots of stamina so you should be able to handle the mobs better.

The quests in outland, in general, are a lot more fun than Azeroth. Also, see if you can tank as well. It is really fun, and instances only take 1-2 hours at the most. Learn to tank, and even though you don't feel like doing it at the moment, you may find it fun once you get better at it. Also, keep a tank set as well as a dps set, if you can, so you have more options at level 70.

[I am Redbeard]

Not too bad for an AoE fight, I mean, for a hunter!

Sweet, it resized it. I'm 5th on there for damage, 1665 dps on Hyjal Trash, pretty decent considering my gear.

http://us.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xm...p;n=Dominatious

[Hungarian Salami]

Hello Everyone :)

I just got myself subscription (again) and started with a Dranei Hunter. Yesterday, just before going to bed, I turned level 10. And now its time for the tough decisions to make - how to spec. my character and what professions to choose. At this point I'm thinking to master beastmastery because most of the time I play solo and when there is a problem with a quest I group with random people and help each other. For professions - I chose Mining and Skinning. This is going to make me some cash 'till I reach the higher levels where I'm going to switch to engineering. What do you think?

Also, would you recommend me a nice guild? I'm playing on Bloodhoof realm.

Cheers!

[lalalawawawa]

Hello Everyone :)

I just got myself subscription (again) and started with a Dranei Hunter. Yesterday, just before going to bed, I turned level 10. And now its time for the tough decisions to make - how to spec. my character and what professions to choose. At this point I'm thinking to master beastmastery because most of the time I play solo and when there is a problem with a quest I group with random people and help each other. For professions - I chose Mining and Skinning. This is going to make me some cash 'till I reach the higher levels where I'm going to switch to engineering. What do you think?

Also, would you recommend me a nice guild? I'm playing on Bloodhoof realm.

Cheers!

I wouldn't choose BM from start (reason, because it gives you such a small boost to hit points that is not worth in the beginning). MM seems to be a good choice. The slow+stun effect of the C... Shot really helps while leveling your character. Also a better critical change is always welcomed on a low level character. For professions, skinning seems right, mining will not bring you lots of money at lower levels, you'll only find copper and tin mine on Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles. You can choose leatherworking, it will give you a nice boost to your armor (while you are leveling up).

[the evn show]

At this point I'm thinking to master beastmastery because most of the time I play solo and when there is a problem with a quest I group with random people and help each other. For professions - I chose Mining and Skinning.

My approach would be herbalism+mining. Mine/herb absolutely everything you can find and sell that stuff on the auction house. If you find some of the low-level herbs just aren't selling then send them to another character and hold on to them: In patch 3.0 people will be leveling Inscription and those low level herbs will become valuable. Skinning is an acceptable substitute for herbalism right now however I think that over the long term herbalism will be better.

Once you hit level 70 you can decide to take on any professions you want and the money you make from herbalism/mining will pay for it. Between the value of gathering professions at low levels, the substantial changes coming in patch 3.0, and the ease of leveling a new profession at level cap, I think it makes the most sense to start off as a "double gatherer".

You're on the right track now.

I'm feeling a bit lost in WoW at the moment. I'm not far of dinging to 58 and then I can head to Outland where the rest of my guild are?Time commitments etc meant that while the majority of people in our guild got to 70 quickly, I've always been lagging behind.

?but I feel like I've lost out by not doing more than half a dozen raids

You missed out on a lot of things and the overwhelming majority of people did too. Fortunately none of that is really required to perform at the end game and a lot of it isn't fun any more anyway.

Here are the highlights:

(best pre-fight sequence in the game)

(you don't even have to do the fight for this to be funny)

BWL (Apart form Vael -- who is just "dps really hard until you die" -- you didn't miss much)

AQ 40 (Looking back, the fights really did seem way more 'exciting than the new stuff')

Naxxramus (One of the best instances ever?and you'll get your chance to do it at 80).

In the event that you don't get to see all the expansion content you want to:

pretty much covers it all (and makes most of it look way more fun that it is today).

I keep getting asked to tank, but I've spec'd up in Arms, a bit in Fury and a couple of points in Protection and I'm using a two handed, so I think being spec'd wrong and not having tanking gear would render me a bit useless and get everyone wiped a bit.

Grab a shield and a few "tank" items (pieces with defense, stamina, block rating, dodge, etc.) and you'll be fine. All of the non-raid instances are designed to be tanked by a class that isn't spec'd into it. A Protection warrior will have an easier time holding threat and they will take less damage but it's certainly not impossible: It's not even difficult enough to be a substantial concern.

With tanks being in such short supply you can just explain to any group "I'm not prot, but I have a tank set." and any non-clueless group will be fine with that. If they pass, chances are good you wouldn't want to play with them anyway: I ranted a couple pages back about the "must be geared" idiots so I won't do it again.

[AltecXP]

I just got an acct and started a Mage Drenai(?) lastnight only lv 4, cant remember the Server name. ANyone know any good Mage guides? Or maybe recomend a good server? I'm low enought I can always restart a new char on a diff. server.

THANK!

[Hungarian Salami]

When patch 3.0 is coming out of the shop? Does anybody know?

Also, as a seconday skill I went for Fishing, because I heard that the tamed pet will need to be fed.

[Xeta]

The only info on Patch 3.0 that I've seen is that it is coming "soon." Coming from Blizzard, this can mean months at a time. Myself, I don't expect it until next year. (This way, if it comes out sooner, its a positive. Rather than getting all excited just to be let down when it is postponed.)

Fishing? I HATE fishing. It hurts my eyes to stare at the bobber for so long. And it provides little to no benefit aside from something to waste time. You can buy food from a vendor and also use the random food that drops off of things you kill. My opinion is: if you're leveling fishing it means you're too bored with the game and you might as well be playing something else.

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware or not, Philip, but everyone can take Fishing, Cooking, and First Aid as they are Secondary Skills. The main professions (tailor, miner, etc) are Primary Skills and are limited to 2 per character. Also, I'd recommend that you level First Aid with all your characters and Cooking with at least one character. Fishing is a waste of time.

[dead.cell]

When patch 3.0 is coming out of the shop? Does anybody know?

Also, as a seconday skill I went for Fishing, because I heard that the tamed pet will need to be fed.

Well, they announced that it'll be coming in a few weeks. That was at the end of August if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if it'll hit PTR first or if their testing in the beta is thorough enough to just bring it out to Live. My guess would be towards the end of this month. Maybe early October if they keep tinkering with things. Honestly, as often as they are toying with the talents, I don't see how they'll have something finished in that time frame. I say this as there are still some concerns with talents in their current form.

As for secondary skills as a hunter, First Aid is your friend. You won't exactly need fishing, especially if the type of pet you pick doesn't like fish. You can pick up meat from a butcher in town or from whatever you kill. Please refer to Petopia for hunter/pet related questions. They have a lot of good information there. :)

[Hungarian Salami]

Haha. The first time when I went fishing I was wondering what the heck I have to do. Damn its annoying task to find fish school first and then watching the damn bobber. I guess I have to switch to something else. I'm not sure what to choose because someone told me that the pet requires a boatload of food. Yes, I could buy al the provisions from vendors but you know guys - a dollar saved is a dollar earned. :)

[StandingInAlley]

Guys!

Any help with my problem on creating an account outside US Region ?

thx

[Erland]

Got to Outland and I'm getting boosted so things are taking a turn for the better. The gear quest rewards are nice

[Noveed]

I'm on that server, my main is called Facemelt in a guild called Adrenaline although I'm currently in BT and MH I can point you in the right direction

A good site when I was lvling my warrior was Tankspot

sorry dude been very busy so have not been on much, ill see if i can get on tonight and have a word, i know its been a while but had some issues to sort out.

[Shadrack]

Going to face Hex Lord in ZA tonight with the guild for the first time. I've run it in PUG groups before. Any advice? Whats the best way to get everyone's shadow resistance up?

[Prosidius]

Dont forget about MC Raiders -

What strikes me is WoW was released in late 2004. The Burning Crusade was released in early 2007. Thats 3 years to raid the level 60 instances. Strikes me how everyone didnt be in Naxx despite it getting patched in less than a year from the expansion's release. There were 9 raid instances in TBC, 8 pre BC. How people didnt get bored w/ the same content for 2 years strikes me too.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Adamb10

[Xeta]

<snip>

How people didnt get bored w/ the same content for 2 years strikes me too.

Yeah, developing a successful subscription based MMO requires a fair knowledge of games and gameplay, but also psychology and human desires. The first thing you may notice about an MMO is there is no winning condition. The game never ends, ever. The game sets up what appears to be a possible ending, but that ending keeps moving and progressing, just like the player. What better way to keep people playing than to keep teasing them as they get closer and closer and closer to "winning."

This is why Black Temple and Sunwell were released as content patches, not available right from the start of the expansion. AQ and Naxx followed the same procedure in vanilla WoW. This is why Arthas will follow the same route come WotLK. Blizzard has already stated that the Lich King fight will not be available right from the get go. He will be part of the final content patch on WotLK. Right before Blizzard starts the process all over again with the next expansion.

There is a suprising amount of psychology involved in these games. More than I have time to type out right now. I've been discussing my game experience with a psychology major (who has little to no experience with video games). I've gotta say, there is a lot more to these games than just balancing classes and creating new art and models for the next expansion.

[the evn show]

What strikes me is WoW was released in late 2004. The Burning Crusade was released in early 2007. Thats 3 years to raid the level 60 instances.

People did get bored. The people that never made it past MC/Onyxia/ZG/AQ20 didn't really have a lot to do but plug away farming what little gear they could because the game was "raid or die". It was impossible for anybody not in one of the 'end game' guilds to catch up so there was always a mountain of content in front of most players.

Strikes me how everyone didnt be in Naxx despite it getting patched in less than a year from the expansion's release. There were 9 raid instances in TBC, 8 pre BC. How people didnt get bored w/ the same content for 2 years strikes me too.

TBC has more instances, but they're half the size.

In terms of raid content there was 9 bosses for Tier 1 and 2.5, 10 bosses for Tier 2, and 15 bosses for Tier 3. There were also 16 bosses worth of "small" raid content and a handful of out-door world bosses.

In the expansion we have 3 bosses worth of Tier 4, 9 bosses for Tier 5, 15 bosses for Tier 6, and 6 more for for Tier 6+. There was also 18 bosses worth of "Small" raid content and a pair of out-door world bosses.

On the whole there is the less raid content now than there was then and yet very few people are in any danger of running out. In addition, the gear gap (in terms of item level) is much smaller now than it was before the expansion so many more people are able to attempt that content than ever before.

When I look over the numbers from wowjutsu and see 7% of raiders killing Vashj/Kael and sub-1% in the back-end of Sunwell: if people are bored it's not due to lack of raid content. With so many players farming badges/honor for welfare epics it seems to me that the problem is that there isn't sufficient motivation for them to progress. There's clearly some want to raid (or else they wouldn't bother with Tier 4) but for whatever reason the desire or ability to push into 'hard' content isn't there for most of them.

Also, don't under-estimate the difficultly of end-game content. My guild is working on M'uru. I spent yesterday night staring into Kil'jaeden's room and yet there is a a bit of a concern that we may not make it there. 4-mobs (2 trash pulls, 2 bosses) from the end of the game and there might not be enough time. Sunwell today, and Naxramas before TBC were extremely difficult: running out of raid content is a problem very few guilds have had to experience before an expansion.

The game never ends, ever. The game sets up what appears to be a possible ending, but that ending keeps moving and progressing, just like the player. What better way to keep people playing than to keep teasing them as they get closer and closer and closer to "winning."

I think part of the appeal to games like this is that they don't end,or rather, that the "win condition" is up to players to decide. For some people winning might be top rated 2v2 in the battle group, for other's it's clearing Sunwell. I have friends that want to get maximum reputation and others that like to have a level-capped character of every class.

Likewise my goal in warcraft has always been "kill the end guy". My goal is sort of a time trial: Finish all of the PVE content before they have a chance to make more. That's my winning condition. When I hit that goal I've won and I can leave the game knowing that I did everything I wanted to. That doesn't mean I don't play ever again: I still play a a round of portal and super mario despite having saved Peach a dozen times or more. My $15/month ensure that there's new content: it's like pre-paying for Half-life 2: Episode 2 when you haven't finished Episode one yet. It's fun, but it alone it isn't enough to hold my interest.

I play this game for two contests: one is player vs environment. I really enjoy the raid-game content and if they were only available as multiplayer co-op maps I'd still play (if they could make a compelling single-player version I'd still play). I also compete in "Player vs developer": can me and my friends complete their new challenges faster than they can come up with them. Winning that competition is doubly rewarding. So long as their developers keep serving up fun raid content, I'm happy to try and beat it faster than they expect.

Other people have defined their own winning conditions - they might be very different from mine but they're every bit as valid. That's one of the reason why so many people play Warcraft: you can have very different goals and still be playing the same game. In most other games the only real winning condition is "kill them more/faster/harder than they kill you".

EDIT: submitted too soon, more to come.

Edited September 9, 2008 by the evn show

[the evn show]

This is why Black Temple and Sunwell were released as content patches, not available right from the start of the expansion. AQ and Naxx followed the same procedure in vanilla WoW. This is why Arthas will follow the same route come WotLK. Blizzard has already stated that the Lich King fight will not be available right from the get go. He will be part of the final content patch on WotLK. Right before Blizzard starts the process all over again with the next expansion.

Part of the reason Black Temple and Sunwell were patched in was because they simply weren't done.

For what it's worth: many end-game raiders didn't like the way the content was released in TBC because it was front loaded very heavily. The old game allowed for a much slower pace because content was added every few months. You could 'win' the player vs developer game several times.

In TBC tier 4 and 5 were ready to go right from the start (broken state of SSC/TK not withstanding). 4 months later Tier 6 was added the hardly anybody was ready for it. You ended up with "lots" to do at the start but ended up with almost a year of waiting for new stuff where a lot of people stopped having fun and moved on. Furthermore, having Illidan as the ultimate End Guy sucked out a lot of the feeling of accomplishment of killing Vashj/Kael/Magtheridon. Those middle-tier bosses were no longer "the worst villain ever", they were just stepping stones to the real evil who was just around the corner. I still enjoyed the fights but I didn't get to experience the "beating the developer" part of the game until Illidan was dead quiet some time later.

Many of us are hoping for a more staggered release of content in the next expansion. Have Naxx 10/25 and maybe a couple of 1-boss raids for launch. 3-4 months later patch in Tier 8, and then 4 months after that add Tier 9. If the expansion gets delayed then buy a few more months with Tier 9+. The general feeling is that spaced content will relax the 'pace' of the end-game race and it will lead to more enjoyable (better designed, less buggy, more challenging, etc) encounters.

In addition, some people think that having the world change over time with new enemies, an evolving history is what makes these types of game unique. With TBC you had the whole story laid out form the start: there's a crooked demon that have been making life out here really crappy and he has plans to do the same in your back yard so you'd better go deal with it. The only real evolution to the story was that when Illidan failed, his boss was coming to finish the job and you had better send him packing. In that way TBC was more like a stand-alone game than the changing world that many people expect to get for their subscription fee. In the original game we had a number of 'ultimate evils' to destroy. First was ragnaross the fire lord. Later evil dragons, then an angry god and his army of bugs, and finally a zombie invasion. That sense of progression (I think) is largely missing from the expansion and I hope that they use the next one as a chance to bring some of that back.

If Blizzard does more raid content as patches rather than having it right in the box when an expansion launches: that's exactly what the raiders are asking for.

EDIT: over all I think TBC does a good job of telling the story of the elf-races. It starts out a little wierd (gruul+karazhan dont' really tie the new expansion to the old world at all), but from Magtheridon to Kil'Jaeden you learn about the fall of, and participate in the redemption of the Blood Elves, and I liked that story quiet a bit.

Edited September 9, 2008 by the evn show

[Prosidius]

imo heres how blizzard should have done the patching cycle for ZA/BT/SW:

Patch 2.1 would have been released around August/end of summer when several guilds were in T5 content. This patch would be the ZA patch. It'd give high end guilds a challenge to get a bear mount.

Patch 2.3 would have been released around X-Mas and included the Black Temple.

Patch 2.4 would have been released around June and include the Sunwell Plateau.

I think this way it doesnt front load content but doesnt have the hardcore raiders wait as long for SW from BT.

[the evn show]

While I agree with pushing ZA sooner rather than later, getting patch 2.1 out the door ASAP for the gear buffs, zone fixes, and alchemy nerfs was very important. Prior to 2.1 raiding was completely busted.

My thinking is that they should have launched with kara and gruul.

Add SSC april 1, Mag on May 15, TK on July 30.

ZA gets bolted in mid september.

Hyjal comes in for november 1

BT follows in mid-late december

Sunwell launches in april using the 'gates' (fully open in mid may).

2 months before expansion: black temple is nerfed to allow people progressing there an opportunity to kill illidan and maybe play in sunwell.

All instances are released with the assumption that people have farmed the previous tier and the entire raid has 4-piece set bonsues + 'appropriate' gear in each slot. As instance N+1 gets added, N-1 gets nerfed (ie: when Hyjal is added, SSC is nerfed substantially). Vanity rewards are available to players that kill the pre-nerf end bosses (ie: pets/titles/mounts/visual effects for killing illidan before sunwell is released) Once new content is available the vanity rewards for old content go away (ie: the bear mount going away after patch 3.0)

Attunement quests still exist however they should be used to enable things like the repair guy beside SSC or the teleport necklace to BT. Anybody should be allowed to zone in, but the content itself serves as a filter to prevent inexperienced or under geared people from continuing. If a reward boss exists they will be in the same instance (ie: chess after aran, grobbulus after patchwerk) not as entry-level bosses in the next tear (ie: the first 4 bosses in hyjal and the first 3 bosses in BT after killing kael/vashj).

[draakhs]

The problem at the moment is, and imo will be ultimately the end of WoW, is the ease with which people can get high end gear now.

There is no incentive anymore to raid. If you want good gear raiding is not the only way to go. This is a double-edged knife though. It is one of the successes of WoW, as you can be casual and have decent gear. But in the end what keeps a game alive are the end-game raiders. When they stop finding members or when the game is getting at the point where raiding has no point anymore people will start looking elsewhere.

There is not much psychology involved in MMORPGs from a game view. You should look at it as a project. Meaning the reason BT was not released at the beginning of BC was not to keep raiders interested, it was simply because it was not done yet. People knew that you would get the keys in TK and SSC to get into BT. But the zone was not there yet as Vashj was a blocking boss to avoid people from running through the content in the beginning and so they had time to implement BT.

Sunwell can be seen as a bridge between BC and the new content. People were getting bored and started to complain about the lack of content after BT. So they came up with the Sunwell story and added the zone and the 2 instances, that's also why Mu'ru and Kil'Jaeden are so hard. They are supposed to keep people busy until WoTLK. They will probably be nerfed after the expansion is released.

In the beginning MC was not in the game either, although it was announced from the beginning. It was not there because it was not finished.