[F1 US GP]- 6 Runners!

[h00nta]

I suppose the danger now is that the rumoured 'breakaway' F1 tour might actually happen, and if that does come into being the divide will bring about the total collapse of F1 as we know it. Should that be the case, chances are that the only (roughly) comparable series of racing we will be seeing is a World Indy/Champ car series and with it the end of F1 and standing start races.

[Ryne]

stupid? think about it first. who made the tires that teams can't drive? if someone does bad job, then punishing is easy to come. nothing to do. michelin sucked and 0 points to all michelin drivers!

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I was being sarcastic you know :happy:

Everyone seems to take it out on Ferrari, no matter what happens. It is clearly not their fault, but everyone seems intent on bashing them instead.

[phedot]

so screw u michelin ... aam going home :rofl:

586089031[/snapback]

You forgot the Cartaman Voice Tags :p

Lets all blame ferrari. Anything bad that happens with F1 is ferrari's fault.

586089848[/snapback]

Yeah... It's like IT...If something goes wrong in the Mighty World of Computers...Blame Microsoft :sleep: (I think you were being ironic, right?)

I'm happy for Tiago Monteiro, first time in F1 and a 3rd place....nice

586091218[/snapback]

And it's the first time a Portuguese racer wins a place in the podium...

[huFFamOOse]

So who is to blame?

Michilen -> FIA -> Ferrari

In that order.

Michilen should have made a safe tyre and had back-up ones available, but I don't blame them totally because they didn't make the tyres faulty on purpose, they found out during the run-up to the weekend. Whether it was the new surface, lack of testing, whatever. They did all they could, offered to fly in new tyres and to modify the track. The FIA wouldn't let them use new tyres and Ferrari were against the new chicane. Even though the Michilen teams offered to get 0 points from racing with the chicane for the sake of the sport and US fans. So yes, Ferrari are in part to blame. My dislike for them grows as their unsportsmen-like attitude shows. Pretty much every new rule change you hear about is "9/10 teams agree, Ferrari doesn't". I wouldn't mind a breakaway sport with the 9 teams that haven't signed up to F1 past 2007.

That's just my view ;)

[[xan]]

So who is to blame?

Michilen -> FIA -> Ferrari

In that order.

Michilen should have made a safe tyre and had back-up ones available, but I don't blame them totally because they didn't make the tyres faulty on purpose, they found out during the run-up to the weekend. Whether it was the new surface, lack of testing, whatever. They did all they could, offered to fly in new tyres and to modify the track. The FIA wouldn't let them use new tyres and Ferrari were against the new chicane. Even though the Michilen teams offered to get 0 points from racing with the chicane for the sake of the sport and US fans. So yes, Ferrari are in part to blame. My dislike for them grows as their unsportsmen-like attitude shows. Pretty much every new rule change you hear about is "9/10 teams agree, Ferrari doesn't". I wouldn't mind a breakaway sport with the 9 teams that haven't signed up to F1 past 2007.

That's just my view?;))

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well the 2007 agreement is signed only by ferrari:pp

look at it this way : in the last 5 years ferrari won everyting either because the rules helped them or because they adapted better to them. so who in their place whould want to change those rules?

the tyre rules for this year clearly helped michelin (because bridgestone has 0 experience in endurance races) and this is clear if you look at results. so it's a bit ironically that they suffered this drawback. i think they trusted themself too much:)). the statement that the michelin will run for no points it's only made by briatore (and you know briatore) and doesn't appear in the michelin requests. so, to modify the circuit to avoid a flaw of some teams will of course affect those teams that had no problem and i guess this is unfair as well. as barichello putted: in bahrain he had tyre issues too and nobody modified the track.

however the basic rule of the two dry tyre sets is that one is for speed and one should resist no matter what. michelin failed to do so and they've admited they've made some calculation mistakes.

edit: this is from dailyf1:

Michelin's failure to supply its teams with safe and durable tyres came less than two weeks after it was warned by the FIA not to sacrifice safety for performance. Mosley wrote to Michelin in the wake of Kimi Raikkonen's suspension failure in the European Grand Prix - caused by vibrations which built up after the Finn flat-spotted his right front tyre - warning it should take no risks in the specifications of its tyres

Edited June 20, 2005 by [xan]

[Galley]

Bernie Ecclestone - remember, he is the goobersmack who recently compared women to domestic appliances! :o

[nekrosoft13]

I personally am ANGRY with the US fans for throwing objects onto the circuit, thats endangering lives of the 6 drivers racing, and just shows how dumb americans can be. A F1 car doing 170mph, hitting a 800ml drinks bottle, could cause MAYHEM, think about it.

586088518[/snapback]

i live in us, but i'm not american

and i totally agree

i love this country, but some people in it are idiots

[bayrider]

u cant really blame Americans for throwing junk onto the the track. I bet you half the people in attendance at the Indy F1 arent even from the US. When the F1 was in Montreal last week, everyone from every corner of the world was here for F1 weekend.

[bonobozoot]

Well, what can I say? I was there for the race, the entire race and I have to tell you that I'm ok with it. I knew at 7AM that there was a problem but I figured that the race would be cancelled. Still I went to it and saw the race. As they went into the pits, people threw stuff and they were rightfully ****ed off. They are demanding refunds but I am not going to ask for mine. I went to the race, saw Indianapolis. Had a nice time and got back.

http://spook.squarespace.com/weblog/i-was-...nd-i-think.html

[Deaf Spacker]

"Michelin would have been to blame if it had raced. Can you imagine what would have happened if, having seen the failure on Friday, we had decided to race the tyre and we had a problem," This is what a person from Michelin said and I agree with him, why risk the drivers lives for the fans? And to the person that said the risk was worth taking, are you insane?

[spa2k]

This one set of tyres rule is awful. I remember the days when teams could use non-grooved (slick?) tyres and change them as often as they liked. Yesterday's 'race' was a sham though. I can understand Ferrari and Jordan not agreeing to have a chicane built - but why not come up with some other solution so at least we got a race?

They should have had a mandatory speed limit around turn 13 for all drivers on Michelin tyres. Or allowed tyre changes for both Michelin and Bridgestone runners. For me, the entertainment should be bigger than the sport and even if the race had been a 73 lap parade behind a safety car then at least people could say it was common sense.

I don't 'blame' Ferrari for anything that happened yesterday but I thought it was extremely arrogant of them not to refuse to race. It was they, yesterday, that had that power to stop all the silliness in one fell swoop, but they put themselves ahead of the fans and the entertainment. By refusing to race, the FIA would have HAD to come to a decision. If the Ferraris had pulled out then I think the Jordans and Minardis would have had to have pull out too. In fact the comments made by Paul Stoddard after the race indicated that the only reason they raced is because there was going to be a race anyway and they needed the sponsorship money.

Refund half the ticket price of all the US attendees, I say.

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Totally agree with the above statement 100%.

[Jon]

As they went into the pits, people threw stuff and they were rightfully ****ed off

That doesn't excuse it.

[Deaf Spacker]

Yes it does not give them the excuse to endanger the lives of the drivers and marshalls etc

[Toonie]

Shudnt be held in america again simple fact

[h00nta]

I think it would be a shame to lose the F1 GP at the Indy in the future, it's a great circuit and I for one don't think that this years fiasco should be the end of F1 there. Of course the FIA and F1 management in general should learn from what happened this year - maybe the Indy circuit should become one of the nominated test tracks - then nobody could have any excuse for tyre failures or anything else.

[DreAming in DigITal]

I personally agree with the Michelin teams decision to withdraw, no one wants to see some one die, AFTER they had be warned that could happen, especailly as the Indy walls are steel re-enforced. They could of sorted this out last night but they failed to do so, so the blame so far looks to be equal between the FIA and Michelin.

I personally am ANGRY with the US fans for throwing objects onto the circuit, thats endangering lives of the 6 drivers racing, and just shows how dumb americans can be. A F1 car doing 170mph, hitting a 800ml drinks bottle, could cause MAYHEM, think about it.

586088518[/snapback]

Good for the fans...F1 really messed this one up by not refunding their money and not running the race...who the HELL runs a race with 6 cars!!! F1 really messed up here in the US...I'm a fan of Team West and F1, but they screwed this one up baaaaaad. If they played their cards right they could be as successful as NASCAR, but this looks awful on the series. Being run by Bernie Ecclestone doesn't help either...what a dumb****.

while the F1 likely won't come back to the US next year or ever again it's because of the stupid stupid fans that were endangering drivers throwing stuff onto the track .. but then again the situation would have been even worse then that if Michellin had kept their collective mouth shut ... it sucks all the way around

Don't bash the fans in the US just beause they are in the US....especially when Europeans are throwing flairs and darts around soccer stadiums.

[metallithrax]

Michelin should have been allowed to bring other tyres for the teams, the race should have gone ahead, but with only the bridgestone teams gaining points

[KzR]

From the statement given by FIA, none of the Michelin tyre teams brought backup tyres to the race. -_-

[pimpshiznid]

Half the staff at my work got tickets for this race. Myself included (though I didn't go), as we live right outside of Indianapolis.

I am extremely glad I didn't go after hearing how things went.

[neocyber_16]

I understand the frustration the F1 fans had in Indy. However throwing objects at Race car drivers going 200mph isn't the smartest thing to do in any situation. Watching the race from start to finish on sunday, felt like watching a basketball game except with 2 vs 4. Which was what it seemed because ferrari owned the jordans and minardi cars. Ferrari was at least 1-2 laps ahead of "other" cars. And as for Tiego Monterio getting third place, that was a good job and good effort, however I feel it may be the last time this season he is ever on a podium (considering his previous races this year reflects on close to last place finishes.)

[DreAming in DigITal]

Ticket Holders File Suit

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - The fallout from the depleted U-S Grand Prix race Sunday at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway has gone to the courts.

Lawyers for a Colorado fan have filed a suit in federal court seeking reimbursement for client Larry Bowers and other ticketholders. They claim they were defrauded after only six cars took part in the Formula One race yesterday. The other 14 drivers withdrew due to Michelin tire concerns.

An Indiana ticketholder has also filed suit. This is in Marion Superior Court seeking a refund.

A Speedway spokesman didn't comment on the lawsuits but says many fans were renewing their tickets.

Speedway President, Joie Chitwood, says no decision has been made whether to refund ticket prices or whether the race would even return to Indy.

The fallout also has extended to the online gambling Web site, Sportsbook-dot-com, which says it would refund all bets placed on the drivers who withdrew.

[DreAming in DigITal]

FIA's Letter to the Michelin Seven

FIA's letter to the Michelin seven

Tuesday June 21 2005

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The following is a copy of the letter the FIA have sent to the seven team principals of the Michelin teams...

'Dear Sir,

Article 151c of the International Sporting Code

You are hereby requested to appear at the forthcoming meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council which is to be held in Paris on 29 June 2005 (FIA ? 8 place de la Concorde, 75008 Paris, meeting room ?Salle du Comite? at 09:30 hrs to answer charges that, in breach of the above, you committed one or more acts prejudicial to the interests of a competition, namely the 2005 United States Grand Prix and/or to the interests of motor sport generally in that you?

- failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tyres for the race and/or

- wrongfully refused to all allow your cars to start the race and/or

- wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race, subject to a speed restriction in one corner which was safe for such tyres as you had available and/or

- combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula One by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race.

And that you failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race in breach of article 131 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

A full dossier will be sent to you within 48 hours

At this hearing you may assisted by the council of your choice

Should you wish to send us any comments in writing before this meeting we will make sure that they are circulated to the members of the World Motor Sport Council.

Yours faithfully

FIA'

[DreAming in DigITal]

Nine of Ten Teams Wanted a Chicane In Order To Race

As was well documented over the course of the weekend, the installation of a chicane at Indianapolis could have solved the Michelin tyre problem and allowed 20 cars to take to the grid for the start of the United States Grand Prix - and the decision not to install one well and truly split the grid.

Following Michelin's warning to its seven teams that it could not guarantee there would be no repeat of the blowout which put Ralf Schumacher into the wall at turn 13 - again - the suggestion was put to the FIA that a chicane would slow the cars down and solve the problem of the 14 Michelin-shod cars being on rubber which wasn't suitable for the increased load generated while taking the high speed banked turn.

"Given the combination of oval exit speed of the F1 cars and the subsequent downforces experienced by the tyres Michelin is not able to guarantee that such incidents would not reoccur during race conditions," Michelin said ahead of race day. "Therefore Michelin is not able to guarantee the total safety of the drivers.

"As a result, Michelin, in total agreement with our partner teams has asked the FIA that a chicane, allowing the reduction of car speed be installed at the entrance to the oval. In this condition the Indianapolis F1 GP would be able to take place with the tyres that we used during the qualification."

Although nine out of ten teams agreed that a chicane could have been installed, the FIA and Jean Todt of Ferrari refused to give permission for one to be put in place, meaning that no-one was totally sure what would happen when the 20 cars left the grid to complete the warm-up lap. However within minutes it became clear what the situation was as the 14 Michelin cars peeled off into the pit-lane to retire from the event.

"I have a horrible feeling in my stomach," David Coulthard, who was heard on the team radio as late as the halfway around the lap saying that he wanted to race, sighed when interviewed by ITV as the race got underway. "I have never experienced anything like this in my career. It will leave a long-lasting bad taste, and I'm embarrassed to be involved with it.

"It's not Bridgestone's fault [that the race got underway with just six runners], because it was a technical problem with the Michelins, but, when it came down to it, no-one could find a resolution. Mature adults simply were not able to reach a decision that would enable us to put on a show."

"A chicane could have been built in that short timeframe, definitely," Sauber driver Jacques Villeneuve added. "That would have been very easy, but Ferrari didn't want to, I think. With the chicane, the tyre would have been safe. We were just hoping a chicane would have been put in, because then we could have raced."

Even Minardi boss Paul Stoddart, who saw his team score double points as a result of the Michelin pull-out would have been happy to see the chicane installed.

"Nine of the ten competing teams had agreed that, in the interests of safety, a temporary chicane needed to be placed before the final turn," he said, "and that unless that took place, the nine teams would not compete. This idea was rejected by FIA President Max Mosley, and in no uncertain terms, the teams were told that, should this occur, there would be no race. This, in my opinion, is clearly not in the interests of the sport, the American public, or Formula One fans around the world."

But with the FIA issuing a statement to attack the teams that withdrew, it is even clearer than a chicane had never been an option.

"Formula One is a sporting contest," the governing body said. "It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that [a chicane] would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One.

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally - from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures."

But could that chicane have been installed without causing any major problems for the Bridgestone runners? Well certainly so in the eyes of Crash.net cartoonist Sprocket with his latest take on F1 action....

Good Ol' Ferrari and the FIA

I understand the FIA's stance on not changing the rules everytime a competitor brings the wrong equipment, BUT when the majority of the field does it then you have a different ball game. This is where NASCAR rules are by far superior...The rules in NASCAR are in place so that the best DRIVER wins..not the best MANUFACTURER (which is obviously the case in F1). My opinion is the F1 drivers are extremely overrated...I think you could put any driver in a Ferrari and they would be extremely competitive. You can't put just any driver in a Hendrick Stock Car and have them be competitive. If F1 really wants to even the playing field then they need to regulate the design and style of the cars along with tires, and set specifications of engines...then let the manufacturers work within those boundries.

Edited June 21, 2005 by DreAming in DigITal

[~clean]

FIA's Letter to the Michelin Seven

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Oh nice, the FIA is now blaming the teams for the sport getting into disrepute.

Roll on the break away group.

[DreAming in DigITal]

The Deflation of Formula 1

Read The Article Here..

I've posted several articles on this page....but this is 100% truth.

Edited June 21, 2005 by DreAming in DigITal