9/11: Truth or Hoax?

[FunkyMike]

When I started digging around in 9/11 articles (underground and commercial) I noticed that the Alex Jones guy who is in this video is a well known credited guy. His only problem is that he doesnt bring a clear picture. I recently heared a radio show with him talking about the New Orleans problem and he was stressing real facts that most people in the world wouldnt know about because they just dont get onto the commercial media.

Overall like I understand it 9/11 is a little fraction of a larger scale plan.

Fahrenheit 9/11 does mention some interesting facts about 9/11 but merley scratches the truth about the people who benefited from it. (And yes there were enough people)

PS. The WTC couldnt collapse that easily .. do you research people and find out how it was constructed. It takes more than an airplane to bring something like that down.

[mAcOdIn Veteran]

The idea that since some people benefitted from 9/11 that those very same people must have perpetrated it is flawed thinking. Granted, if doing an investigation they would be the first I'd investigate, but benefitting from something is a far cry short of proving guilt.

As for the floor to floor thing I think you're slightly mistaken by what we mean. It fell from the top down not from the bottom. Basically the top crushed the bottom onto itself once it was no longer structurally sound. Anyways while I'm no engineer, no matter what I think it was a floor to floor collapse because it did not fall to one side, the fact that it collapsed floor to floor is indisputable, the only thing up for discussion is whether it was controlled or not, and even that relies on no facts but pure speculation.

I'm not a genius but I find it hard to believe that someone could have covertly placed enough explosives, which have to be placed in perfect positions, in a building of that size without anyone seeing them that worked there. We're not talking about leaving a suitcase bomb under a chair here, we're talking about the systematic placement of shapecharges all around the building.

[Hani]

Hey,

Well, what do you think? Whom do you think caused the attacks? Osama Bin Laden and his Muslim colleagues? Or the U.S. government? I?m not trying to defend my own religion, so don?t take my opinion as biased. I believe that it was the U.S. government who caused the attacks.

First, the collapse of the two towers seemed a hoax. The towers collapsed in a vertical manner. My Dad once worked with a Demolition group company, and he told that most of the buildings that fall vertically are caused by bombs. Buildings that fall in a non-vertical manner aren?t caused bombs, but by a miscellaneous method (like a plane crash). I?m not a demolition expert, but this looks like a fraud to me. Moreover, at the time of the first plane crash, George Bush was at an elementary school. And of course, he was told by his agents of this issue. Why didn?t he launch an attack on all civilian planes that passed in that area?! The only one who can launch such attack is the Chief in Command (the president). In addition, we know that the first benefactor of this terrorism act was the U.S. government. President Bush was able to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, an unusual heavy trading in airline and related stocks happened several days before the attacks. There is much evidence you could find on the web (e.g. conspiracy sites).

I know that the subject is old. So what?s your own point of view?

Best Regards,

Hani

[vincent]

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=359218

kthxbye :)

[Starcom826]

Hey,

Well, what do you think? Whom do you think caused the attacks? Osama Bin Laden and his Muslim colleagues? Or the U.S. government? I?m not trying to defend my own religion, so don?t take my opinion as biased. I believe that it was the U.S. government who caused the attacks.

First, the collapse of the two towers seemed a hoax. The towers collapsed in a vertical manner. My Dad once worked with a Demolition group company, and he told that most of the buildings that fall vertically are caused by bombs. Buildings that fall in a non-vertical manner aren?t caused bombs, but by a miscellaneous method (like a plane crash). I?m not a demolition expert, but this looks like a fraud to me. Moreover, at the time of the first plane crash, George Bush was at an elementary school. And of course, he was told by his agents of this issue. Why didn?t he launch an attack on all civilian planes that passed in that area?! The only one who can launch such attack is the Chief in Command (the president). In addition, we know that the first benefactor of this terrorism act was the U.S. government. President Bush was able to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, an unusual heavy trading in airline and related stocks happened several days before the attacks. There is much evidence you could find on the web (e.g. conspiracy sites).

I know that the subject is old. So what?s your own point of view?

Best Regards,

Hani

586569182[/snapback]

I lend no credit to the conspiracy theories thought up. The fact that most building don't fall in that manner doesn't mean the WTC wouldn't. The WTC was engineered very differently from other high rises which gave it the wide open office space inside. The trusset design although it allowed the building to be constructed quite rapidly allowed floors to fall on each other and compound on collapse hence the vertical collapse. As for attacking civilian airplanes in the area, I can't even begin to imagine the wrath Bush would incur if he had done so. Luckily, he didn't really even get the chance because soon the FAA closed airspace over the attacked areas and then the entire country. And also, I lend no credence to the theory that this is really a result of U.S. foreign policy. If this was the case, they would bomb or fly planes into U.S. military installations, or kill soldiers overseas. Flying civilian jetliners into a commercial office building filled with New Yorkers just going to work doesn't really have much to do with American foreign policy. And if foreign policy really was their motive, you would think they would attack other western powers that do the same thing at that time too.

[Matrix XII]

I just can't believe that the US government would do something like that :no:

[2xSilverKnight]

I just can't believe that the US government would do something like that :no:

586569404[/snapback]

hard to believe of course .. but you have to face it it's worst to ignore it.

here's a preview video of Loose Change from Dylan Avery

it's the best documentary, i got the full one. you should take a look at it.

Link Preview

[ultimate99]

Go watch the old movie A Long Kiss Goodnight. A Major or whatever, i don't really remember, said that he would kill 4,000 Americans and he would just blame it on the Muslims.

So there you go, a movie shows what thoughts were going around (and still) in the US... ;)

[2xSilverKnight]

really ?? you should watch this preview of Loose Change documentary by Dylan Avery

Link preview

[Fred Derf Veteran]

https://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=359218

kthxbye :)

586569273[/snapback]

[Threads Merged]

[Thread Moved to Area 51, Hanger 101]

For those scoring at home, the vote was 4 to 10 for it being faked before it was moved here.

[Hani]

The Twin Towers were designed to survive the impact of a Boeing 707, which in weight, size and speed is similar to a Boeing 767, than why did it collapse?

[vincent]

The Twin Towers were designed to survive the impact of a Boeing 707, which in weight, size and speed is similar to a Boeing 767, than why did it collapse?

586569786[/snapback]

I doubt they took the fact of a plane possibly smashing into it as part of the original design, when they had finalized the blueprints for them.

[Hani]

I doubt they took the fact of a plane possibly smashing into it as part of the original design, when they had finalized the blueprints for them.

586569800[/snapback]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/novem...ignedtotake.htm

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/boeing_707_767.html

[xxpor]

because of the heat of the jet fuel burning, and the steel melting, no from the accual crash

[vincent]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/novem...ignedtotake.htm

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/boeing_707_767.html

586569849[/snapback]

Crackpot websites. please i'd like to see one from an engineering website stating such facts. Not a conspiracy zealot site.

[John S. Veteran]

The Twin Towers were designed to survive the impact of a Boeing 707, which in weight, size and speed is similar to a Boeing 767, than why did it collapse?

586569786[/snapback]

I'm not sure where you got this info, but it's just not true. According to the architect who designed the building (via one of the many specials this past anniversary -A&E or Discovery channel) the buildings were not designed to withstand the impact of an airliner. The architect was in tears talking about this.

New York's World Trade Center Twin Towers were designed to withstand fire and hurricane-force winds. Some engineers believed the Twin Towers could even survive impact from a Boeing 707. But no engineer or architect could have anticipated the terrorist attack that turned the Twin Towers to rubble, and experts often don't agree what steps might have been taken to make the buildings stronger.

architecture.about.com

[vincent]

I'm not sure where you got this info, but it's just not true.  According to the architect who designed the building (via one of the many specials this past anniversary -A&E or Discovery channel) the buildings were not designed to withstand the impact of an airliner.  The architect was in tears talking about this.

586569902[/snapback]

exactly, i doubt at the time they putting the desging concepts for the towers, they were like:

"hey, lets make sure it can resist an airliner crashing into it, piloted by suicide terrorists okay guys?"

[Hani]

And how do you expect me to believe that? About.com isn't an engineering website.

[vincent]

And how do you expect me to believe that? About.com isn't an engineering website.

586569929[/snapback]

Think about it, really, cmon now, how many times in history before 9/11 has an airliner crashed into a skyscraper?

[John S. Veteran]

And how do you expect me to believe that? About.com isn't an engineering website.

586569929[/snapback]

you're right about the 707, I was mistaken...the heat from the fire fueled by thousands of gallons of jet fuel seems to be the structural engineers reasoning for them coming down...I dunno who the guy I saw on the discovery special was...I've most likely misquoted him, but he was in tears stating something to the effect of his regret at their not being able to forsee the possibility of such a tragedy.

As the structural engineers of the World Trade Center, the men and women of LERA have a special bond with the buildings. Our Leslie E. Robertson directed the original design. Further, we have provided professional services for the complex continuously for almost forty years, including the reconstruction from the bombing in 1993.

From our office, we watched as the second plane hit the South Tower. As did you, we suffered through the collapse, knowing that thousands of lives were being lost... and we feared for many of our friends, some of whom died in the attack.

We designed the towers to resist the accidental impact of a Boeing 707, perhaps lost in the fog while seeking to land. The impact of the Boeing 767s, commandeered by the terrorists, even though larger and flying much faster, was still unable to bring down the towers. The fire-resistive systems, however, did not and could not have contemplated the subsequent fire fueled by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

Despite the enormous tragedy and loss, we are thankful that the towers stood as long as they did, allowing so many to evacuate.

Leslie E. Robertson and Associates, Structural Engineers of the WTC

[Slimy]

fahrenheit 911 is a white washing movie of the events about 9/11. It doesn't even cover the real facts. He just says that it was a big failure of the government and the secret services .. do you think they are so stupid? It happened because they wanted to ..

And the floor to floor colapse is such a BS theory for this. Here's the first tower's colapse top floors are in an inclined angle which make it impossible that it was a floor-to-floor colapse. I have a few videos and photographics evidences that shows blast points.

586507099[/snapback]

i'm trying to keep an open mind but what do those pictures prove?

[Hani]

As the structural engineers of the World Trade Center, the men and women of LERA have a special bond with the buildings. Our Leslie E. Robertson directed the original design. Further, we have provided professional services for the complex continuously for almost forty years, including the reconstruction from the bombing in 1993.

From our office, we watched as the second plane hit the South Tower. As did you, we suffered through the collapse, knowing that thousands of lives were being lost... and we feared for many of our friends, some of whom died in the attack.

We designed the towers to resist the accidental impact of a Boeing 707, perhaps lost in the fog while seeking to land. The impact of the Boeing 767s, commandeered by the terrorists, even though larger and flying much faster, was still unable to bring down the towers. The fire-resistive systems, however, did not and could not have contemplated the subsequent fire fueled by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

Despite the enormous tragedy and loss, we are thankful that the towers stood as long as they did, allowing so many to evacuate.

Thanks adonai for your time to provide a more trustful website. Lera is a structural engineering website.

[Hani]

I just can't believe that the US government would do something like that :no:

586569404[/snapback]

o the hundreds of thousands of civilians incinerated in the U.S. fire bombings of Hamburg, Dresden and Tokyo, and in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki;

o the two to five million post-World-War-II refugees from the Soviet Union who were forcibly returned to Stalin, to face either immediate execution or a slow death in the Gulag, on the orders of Roosevelt and Eisenhower in Operation Keelhaul;

o the millions of civilians who died from hunger and disease as a result of U.S.-instigated mass starvation of Germans during 1945-1950 under the Morgenthau Plan;

o the millions of Native Americans killed by soldiers and occupiers of their land in the 19th Century or allowed to starve to death by the U.S. government in the 20th (a clear case of genocide);

o the thousands of Iranians tortured and murdered by SAVAK, the secret police of the regime installed in 1953 as a result of a CIA-led coup which overthrew the popular Iranian Premier, Mossadegh);

o the murder of between 20,000 and 40,000 Vietnamese from 1968 to 1971 by the CIA in their political assassination program Operation Phoenix;

o the million or so Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians killed by the American military in the 1960s and 70s whilst defending their countries from American domination (or simply because they happened to be where the Americans carried out their carpet bombings);

o the tens of thousands of civilians who were tortured and murdered by CIA-installed dictatorships in Central and South America;

o the 200,000 people (all civilians) killed (using U.S.-supplied equipment) as a result of Indonesia's invasion of East Timor in 1975 for which prior approval was given by the then U.S. President and U.S. Secretary of State (Ford and Kissinger);

o the six million Brazilian Indians who have died as a result of the policies of multinational corporations;

o the 10,000 to 20,000 people, mostly civilians, killed in the U.S.-supported 1982 invasion of Lebanon by Israel;

o the 300,000 Iranians killed in the Iran/Iraq war, which was started by Iraq at the instigation of the U.S. (which supplied Iraq with the weapons it used);

o the 200,000 civilians killed by Reagan's CIA-cocaine-funded Contras in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Honduras in the 1980s;

o the 6,000 (perhaps as many as 20,000) Iraqi civilians killed during the 41 days and nights of bombing by the British and the Americans in 1991 (during which time the civilian infrastructure was targeted, a war crime), including:

o the 500 civilians (including whole families) burnt alive and turned into cinders when American missiles penetrated a shelter in Baghdad;

o the tens of thousands of Iraqi conscripts slaughtered on the "Highway of Death" by U.S. Navy pilots during their attempted retreat from Kuwait in 1991 (another war crime because the soldiers killed were not in a combat situation);

o the tens of thousands of Kurdish civilians killed in South-East Turkey during the 1990s by Turkish government soldiers using weapons and equipment supplied to them by the U.S. (which knew exactly what they were doing with them);

o the tens of thousands of civilians in Sudan who have died due to the absence of medicines resulting from the destruction of the Sudanese pharmaceutical plant by American cruise missiles in 1998 and from the economic sanctions imposed on Sudan;

o the one to two million Iraqi civilians, two-thirds of them children, who have died in the last ten years as a result of the effects of the hundreds of tons of cancer-causing depleted uranium left over from the million or so exploded rounds of DU ammunition used in attacks by American warplanes in the 1991 American/British 6-week terrorist campaign against Iraq and from the subsequent U.S./British-imposed economic blockade and criminally punitive sanctions (not to mention those killed by the bombing raids which occur every week);

o and the tens of millions of civilians who die every year in Third World countries from starvation, disease and despair because their countries are mired in poverty and corruption as a result of economic exploitation by American multinationals acting with the support and approval of the American government.

Yeah you would believe in this, and not believe that 9/11 attacks were caused by the U.S. Government? :rolleyes:

[2xSilverKnight]

i'm trying to keep an open mind but what do those pictures prove?

586571233[/snapback]

hmm .. let's see .. Blast points and the top of the tower is inclined which says that in reality AT LEAST only the top should had fall, not the entire building wich has six huge central columns. The resistance of the towers against the wind was so much greater than an impact of a plane. Anyway as i said i have a lot of video evidences and even mainstreams media reports (CNN, Fox, MSNBC,7 and others) of explosions going off in the buildings. But some of them is high quality and too huge to upload somewhere. If someone knows a good program to capture and reencode some footages I will be able to upload them.

NBC's Pat Dawson reports

Main News report 1

Main news report 2

Edited September 24, 2005 by 2xSilverKnight

[John S. Veteran]

We designed the towers to resist the accidental impact of a Boeing 707, perhaps lost in the fog while seeking to land. The impact of the Boeing 767s, commandeered by the terrorists, even though larger and flying much faster, was still unable to bring down the towers. The fire-resistive systems, however, did not and could not have contemplated the subsequent fire fueled by thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

Leslie E. Robertson and Associates, Structural Engineers of the WTC

586570314[/snapback]

hmm .. let's see .. Blast points and the top of the tower is inclined which says that in reality AT LEAST only the top should had fall, not the entire building wich has six huge central columns. The resistance of the towers against the wind was so much greater than an impact of a plane.

586572817[/snapback]

The impacts didn't bring either tower down...the towers stood for several minutes while the fires, fuled by jet fuel, got so hot they weakened the steel causing the eventual collapse.

An interesting read on The Mystery of Melting Steel

From the article:

There is no indication that any of the fires in the World Trade Center buildings were hot enough to melt the steel framework. Jonathan Barnett, professor of fire protection engineering, has repeatedly reminded the public that steel--which has a melting point of 2,800 degrees Fahrenheit--may weaken and bend, but does not melt during an ordinary office fire.

Yet metallurgical studies on WTC steel brought back to WPI reveal that a novel phenomenon--called a eutectic reaction--occurred at the surface, causing intergranular melting capable of turning a solid steel girder into Swiss cheese.