Marijuana or Alcohol?

[Garrett Socling]

Refer to my last post. There is evidence that marijuana could possibly cause lung cancer, but there are no cases I'm aware of where marijuana was the sole cause of lung cancer in a person. Most cases reported, the person also smoked ciggs. Hmm, maybe we can draw a conclusion here?

There is also evidence that reports marijuana in fact helps combat certain types of cancer.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just trying to throw in your honest opinion, but you're relying on ignorance and myths to do so, thereofore making your opinions rather useless to the discussion. This happens in ever marijuana discussion, and I'm not saying either side is better. We both throw skewed statistics at eachother and such. But the anti-marijuana side definately relies heavily on myths about the drug. Then you have idiots on the pro-side that are all about things like "d00d no hangover lolz" and stuff like that. Idiocy on both sides.

This is why despite what anyone thinks, it is ****ing obvious we need a standardized, non-biased test done ont he effects of Marijuana, for once and for all.

I belive 'set and setting' will make a true standardized test less than useful. In other words: smoking a joint in a cubical in order to peform test to produce a data set may yield a different experience for the user versus their typical environment 'when partaking'.

Personally, I feel it is more similar to LSD rather than alcohol (although you have people who 'get mean' when drinking whiskey, for example): the response the user expects influences greatly the response the user gets. Speaking from experience as someone who wasted too much marijuana in the past :whistle:

[Raum]

Good post Vista, and you've outlined a big problem from the anti-pot side.

They are just trying to voice their opinions, but their opinions are based largely on incredibly false or misrepresented data.

For instance those commercials where kids get shot by one another or someone runs over a little girl. These are not accurate pictures of what smoking and driving is like.

It varies. My old girlfriend Nikita couldn't drive worth a **** when she was stoned, and almost ran a couple of red lights / stop signs because she just had trouble focusing. This was mostly due to how new she was to it.

I myself am very used to it, and when I drive stoned there is no difference between when I drive sober. No, this doesn't mean I'm a terrible driver, though I'm not the best I'll admit. :)

Seriously though, I'll be driving around smoking as I drive and still drive better than most people in Ohio. I know people who can drive pretty decent drunk, but I don't know ANYONE who can drive just as good drunk as sober. I know plenty who can do this with Marijuana.

Does pot have it's bad side and negative consequences? Most positively it does. But I think in comparison with alcohol, overall it is a much safer substance, but on ethat can still be easily abused. As far as operating heavy machinery and driving cars, I don't think it's a good idea for anyone to do either drunk or high unless they know they can still do it well, like in my case. I don't see anyone being able to do this with alcohol, but if they can more power to them. Some people can't do it with pot, and they shouldn't try to, they'd be putting them and others at risk. If you're like me though, once you've gotten used to bud, you can operate rather fine under its effects. For instance, when I got my license I took the test after smoking about a joints worth.

@MGS: Your opinion on marijuana and thinking it's going to cause people to lose their lungs is very much based on ignorance. It's one thing to have the potential to cause lung cancer, it's another to high a set % of users develop lung cancer as a direct results of marijuana usage, the latter of which does not occur. If I say alcohol causes schizophrenia, my opinion is based on myths and / or ignorance, much in the way yours is. I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I'm glad you're trying to contribute, but your contributions can only be so useful when they aren't based on what we know to be truth.

[cork1958]

The 15 year old arguement me and my wife have been having. I promised to quit smoking when we got married and have only 1 time since (15 years). Didn't quit drinking totally, but only very seldom anymore. Used to be the rock & roll, party 24 hours a day type person. The arguement we have been having is that if hooter ever gets legalized, you can count on me getting stoned to the bone ASAP!! I'd even quit drinking totally then!! :D

My own personal preference, as you can see, is hooter over alcohol anyday of the week. I know neither are good, but at least I can stay in control being a little high. I can tend to get stupid when drinking!!

[uniacid]

I would have to say this one goes to marijuana, I just don't see the point in getting drunk for "fun" if you're a big alcohol drinker.

I've done both things many times but I've never gotten dead drunk or too drunk that I couldn't walk or recognize my enviroment.

I doubt marijuana would ever be legalized though, it would cause an uproar with the Good Ole Fashion American Folk who must follow everything by the book even though the book isn't always right, also Beer is the "American" all time drink and for causing so many deaths and injuries every year, nothing is done to stop the trend it has accumulated to, although there seems to be a ton more effort in getting marijuana off the street.

I will say though, there are proper ways to use marijuana and alcohol and also dangerous or unproper ways.

[oldaccount1]

Drinking is going to stay legal. I don't see the need for pot.

[Raum]

Is there a need for pot? Is there a need for alcohol? Ice Cream? Lattes?

That arguement isn't very valid considering the amount of things people buy that serve no real purpose in their lives, other than "they like them."

Why go buy yourself some Ice Cream, when you could spend the same amount on chicken and be in better health, feel more fulfilled and so forth? Because people enjoy their ice cream.

People enjoy their pot too.

[Raum]

Meh, can't edit my last post.

I just wanted to elaborate on my stoned driving testimony.

Tonight I had the idea to get high and go get pancakes at ihop and read some more of Mere Christianity. I used my hookah in my car for the first time, smoking half the pack on the way to ihop, eating my pancakes, then smoking the second half on the drive home. About half-way to my house I was done, and was feeling incredibly stoned. I enjoy driving at night when the roads are empty when I'm high, it's relaxing and feels good just to cruise down a smooth road with the wind in your face. That sounded really fun to me at this time, but for the first time since I got my license I honestly felt I was too high to be driving. I felt like I just shouldn't be ont he road, because I could be a potential hazard to myself and others. So I decided just to go straight home,a nd not cruise around any like I had planned.

The point of my story is that one can assume from this that even under very extreme amounts of marijuana (This is a hookah designed for 4 people mind you, and good bud) I was able to retain the common sense to sense possible threats I could present to myself and others.

This completely negates the propaganda those TV ads feed you about kids shooting eachother and kids getting run over. I've blazed with my friends then gone out back and practiced knife throwing with them, and we always hand eachother the knives handle first, never throw when someone is in front of us or at the target and so forth. Being high, unlike many would try to lead you to believe, does not always dramatically impair your ability to judge your world with common sense and everyday logic.

I don't have enough experience with alcohol to speak firsthand, as I've largely abstained from it due to personal preference, but I have heard and seen things. I have a friend who sliced his finger, severing tendons and exposing bone, due to being drunk and stabbing a box repeatedly with a kitchen knife. I've talked with my friends about things we could try when we go drinking next time, and I said it'd be funt o get stoned or drunk and go around blazing trails through woods with machetes. They said sharp objects and alcohol is a bad idea.

So this would leave me to believe that if you cannot even expect yourself to safely handle a knife int he presence of others when you're very drunk, that it is much more judgement impairing than marijuana even comes close to. Look at alcohol related driving incidents.

I know I could trust myself to go to a shooting range after smoking a joint. Could you guys say the same after taking enough shots to get yourself plastered?

[Smit]

Just remember that alot of the studies outlining weed as "bad" have been discredited. Such as the one done awhile back where they gassed some monkeys for over 5 minutes with 5 times as much weed as anyone could smoke in an entire lifetime and then reported it gave you mental problems.

The way I see it is:

Weed > Alcohol > Tobacco

I don't get how people can say its badder than anything else? Both alcohol and tobacco have alot worst effects.

Some of the arguments I've seen about legalizing weed are:

If it is legalized people will be stoned at work.

You can't be drunk at work can you? There are rules. Its the same thing. Just create rules for weed and if someone comes into work stoned, fire them.

People will drive when they are stoned.

You can't drink drive can you? Same thing as above. Add it to the law so that you can't drive while stoned.

It promotes crime.

So does alcohol and tobacco. It promotes more crime because it is illegal. If it was legalized then it could be taxed. Think of how much money they make from tobacco at the moment, thay could do the same with weed.

I don't want my kids thinking it ok to do drugs.

I hate seeing those mothers that are always on about how weed is bad and should be stamped out while having a *** in their mouth. Alcohol and tobacco are drugs, your using them arn't you!

IMO weed helps you get stuff done. When you have something repetitive to do (like data entry) you just get on with it and are actually very accurate (I got 1/800 entries wrong). It helps when you need to think about something, like in games, I find it helps you solve puzzles alot easier.

Weed is healthier and alot less dangerous than the others and doesn't promote anti-social behaviour like alcohol does. If you are allowed to smoke and drink, why not weed?

EDIT: Hmmm, it seems like the f word for cigs it filtered.

[Raum]

If one merely goes back through the past 100 years and examines all the "information" our government has used to try an descredit Marijuana usage, something that has been going on for thousands of years, you will see how much our government has been lying to us about it. Why would you expect them to be telling the truth about it now? Because wonderful, wholesome, honest people like Mr. Bush run our country? Ahahahah.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Why do you need to chemically manipulate your body to have fun? That applies to alcohol as much as anything else. As for negatives, recent research has shown that weed increases the chance of mental illness, something likely to increase as ever stronger versions are bred... the strength of weed in the 60s was absolutely trivial in comparison to the modern version.

Legalising it would be going the wrong way when people are becoming less accepting of smoking. Drinking is already very problematic, due to a lack of restraint, and people can't even be trusted to eat properly, as evidenced by the surging obesity problem... what chance do you honestly think weed has of improving society? The sad fact is that people can't be trusted to act responsibly so you need government legislation to protect society. Evidence has shown there would be a drop in productivity (even a brief look at regular users would tell you that), which certainly isn't beneficial to society. The only arguements I see for its usage (recreationally) is "I want to", "why not?" and "I'm entitled to do what I want". To think that legalising weed would have no affect upon society and that you should be able to do what you want regardless of anyone else is naive... I'm not saying it's bad or inherently evil and, used responsibly I don't see any problem, it's just there is more to it than one person deciding what they should and shouldn't do to their body.

Is weed more dangerous that alcohol? That is incredibly hard to say and can't be settled by conjecture from individuals here, though alcohol abuse is certainly more obvious that does not necessarily make it worse... alcohol use is certainly something that needs to be better regulated, as binge drinking is detrimental to society and to people's health.

Anyway, let's consider legalisation. Like any other industry it would have to be regulated... the increasing strength is dangerous so they would limit the strength that it could be; that would just push people to again buying illegal weed that is much stronger but this time they don't see any problem as they now get a message from the government saying weed isn't very dangerous. That bypasses the taxation arguement and means increasing numbers of people are exposed to stronger versions of the drug, leading to a greatly increased occurance of mental illness. That is just one of many issues with legalisation. People should be working together to benefit and progress society, not be becoming increasingly isolated and selfish. If a person deciding to do weed had no knock on effects then there would be no problem, but sadly that isn't the case.

What I say is not gospel but my opinion. I dislike people that say weed is bad and should be illegal because they say so as much as I dislike people saying that weed is good and should be legal because they say so. You need serious debate on all the issues and to look at it openly and without unnecessary bias. My point of view is based upon observations of society, having seen people use it regularly and people that have used it in large quantities - I am open to the points of both sides, providing that there is evidence and reasoning behind it.

PS - I have added some pictures into my post to liven it up, as it is quite long.

[yisman]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're just trying to throw in your honest opinion, but you're relying on ignorance and myths to do so, thereofore making your opinions rather useless to the discussion. This happens in ever marijuana discussion, and I'm not saying either side is better. We both throw skewed statistics at eachother and such. But the anti-marijuana side definately relies heavily on myths about the drug. Then you have idiots on the pro-side that are all about things like "d00d no hangover lolz" and stuff like that. Idiocy on both sides.

This is why despite what anyone thinks, it is ****ing obvious we need a standardized, non-biased test done ont he effects of Marijuana, for once and for all.

Agreed. I bet such a study has been done somewhere, but good luck on finding it.

[Fred Derf Veteran]

With alcohol, you pre-party then go to a club and have a few more drinks, then dance a bit and chase some skirts.

With pot, you end up at home in somebody's basement smoking a J and getting the munchies.

I prefer the former.

[Burned]

I choose neither. Both are toxins that shorten your lifespan. But if I had to pick one, it would be weed. I work with alot of acoholics and I see the damage it does to them and their families. I have had several co-workers die form drinking. We also have one guy who had to be taken to the hospital to be drained of fluids, because the drinking is killing his kidneys.

[_sphinx_]

Never tried either, never will

[Catharsis]

Respect for my body or no respect for my body? Hmm...

[Raum]

I smoke weed and I'm in a hell of a lot better shape than most people I know. Take much better care of myself too. Smoking pot doesn't mean I don't care about my health, otherwise I'd still eat candy, drink pop, drink beer and not think about the nutrional value of my food everytime I eat.

Seriously. www.myspace.com/raumien

Compare my pictures ot the average American and tell me I don't care about my health at all. I'm someone who look sup ingredients in his food that sound fishy just to see if there are any possible negative consequences of consumption.

What you're saying is like me proclaiming that anyone who drives a car is trying to destroy our environment and they don't give a damn what happens to Nature. Just because one aspect of their lives damages Nature, doesn't mean everyhting they do does such. Pretty presumptious to think that anyone in an automobile doesn't give a damn about the environment.

[Hum]

Tonight I had the idea to get high and go get pancakes at ihop and read some more of Mere Christianity. I used my hookah in my car for the first time, smoking half the pack on the way to ihop, eating my pancakes, then smoking the second half on the drive home. About half-way to my house I was done, and was feeling incredibly stoned. I enjoy driving at night when the roads are empty when I'm high, it's relaxing and feels good just to cruise down a smooth road with the wind in your face. That sounded really fun to me at this time, but for the first time since I got my license I honestly felt I was too high to be driving. I felt like I just shouldn't be ont he road, because I could be a potential hazard to myself and others.

:laugh: And your license plate number is .... ? You will eventually get busted and pay a high price for driving stoned. :yes:

[Pyroteknikz]

I honestly don't see the point for any of those. They just came out of nowhere. A lot of kids in my school are potheads and 80% or more kids the in school smoke or drink. I was doing a study, More kids were on the Honour Roll list than now and former kids on the Honour Roll that started drinking and doing drugs are among the stupidest people in the school. Too the point, I would never do any of those.

[Noveed]

marajuana :D coz i dont drink hehehe

and the effects of marajuana are like :woot: :woot: :woot:

[Caleo Global Moderator]

Holy crap, I'm amazed this thread is still alive.

[brotherrabbit]

Gannnnnnnnja allll the way.

Alcohol is for the birds.

[THE BAT]

Alcohol

[quick]

Marijuana

I have heath issues, and Marijuana does not affect my health issues negatively, actually provides relief IMO. Also the effects of Marijuana i think are far more favorable to "Peace" rather then violence and other things that alcohol brings out in people.

Plus it won't give you a hangover in the morning... so you can use it during the week and still get to work in the morning, it will even help you sleep lol...

[Dotdot]

Well personally I was born pre-mature and had many diff tubes etc in me to keep me alive at the time. Sadly one of the main tubes which when inserted to my infant body took a bit of a bad turn and created a rip in one of the main arterys in my chest.

This led to internal bleeding but at such a slow rate it was completely un-detectable until I was 5yrs old when I began to cough up blood, literally to the point of bleeding to death.

The medical condition for this is known as "Oesophagiao Varices" and is generally found in alcoholics. The bleeding itself is caused by a block or tear in the arterys around the stomach . or gullet and when this happens the blood must find a new direction to go in, thus leading to new veins growing and eventually leading out into the stomach/gullet and of course bleeding into the afore mentioned.

So sadly I cannot drink alcohol in any form, I once had non-alcoholic wine and whilst yes its non-alcoholic the coincidence of me having another bleed 2 months later was a little too close.

I since had about 3, ?72,000+ ops to fix this luckily not at my expense thank you NHS aswell as having my spleen removed, which further more concretes the NO Alcohol life style for me.

I have to say that personally if I couldnt get a smoke once in a while with my mates instead of a drink I dont know where Id be or even if Id have the good friends I do now.

So all in all I certainly am greatful and enjoy the effects of Cannabis quit a bit, even to the point of going on a bender in Amsterdam last year:)) .. ALL HAIL DUTCH MOONSHINE!

My point to this tho is that there are many folk in my boat and for whatever reason cant drink for medical reasons, but who can enjoy a smoke. So its something to keep in mind when folk get up on there its a "gateway drug" high horse or start condeming chronic use of it.

Oh and yes Im all too aware of the fact that it may be 4 times more likely to cause schizophrenia, but Id say that a chronic drinker is probs 10 times more likely to end up with liver failure or even the conditon I suffered which in itself is a common condition of Alcoholism. (you should see the looks i get off nurses whenever i have a small scare about my condition.)*

*Yes Im cured of the condition now but the fear of it coming back will never leave me and the slightest sign of blood in my spit is enuff to have me in hospital for a day or 2 just to be safe!

[CrisCr0ss]

Marijuana

I have heath issues, and Marijuana does not affect my health issues negatively, actually provides relief IMO. Also the effects of Marijuana i think are far more favorable to "Peace" rather then violence and other things that alcohol brings out in people.

Plus it won't give you a hangover in the morning... so you can use it during the week and still get to work in the morning, it will even help you sleep lol...

not true marijuana does give u some form of hangover i have experience many times its more a tiered lazy feeling tho

Im an ex pot user as for me weed was a point in time i prefer the effects of alcohol when in a club or dancing weed for hanging out