Dell 3007WFP

[felipey]

Since the 2405 is roughly $600 more than the 2005 in retail, I'm guessing the 3007 will be approximately $1800. If they later offer 25% off coupons like they did with the 2405, this could be bought for about 1350, almost half the cost of the Apple screen.

[NextGen_Gamer]

so yea im still confused what videocards can handle this kinda resolution

Once again, here is the list of totally confirmed desktop video cards that will work:

ATI Radeon X1800 CrossFire Edition

ATI Radeon X1800 XT

ATI Radeon X1800 XL

ATI Radeon X1600 XT

ATI Radeon X1600 Pro

That's it. The Radeon X1300 series has the option to support the DVI-D interface (which this monitor requires), but as far as I know, there is no shipping Radeon X1300 product that has implemented it yet.

[excalpius]

NVIDIA just released ForceWare 82.12 today (12/22) on their nzone site.

The release notes specifically mention...

? Added support for the Dell 3007WFP panel

So, any Nvidia cards with DVI-D support should support this monitor now.

I know that my Quadro FX 2000 has one DVI-D port and my Quadro FX 4000 has dual DVI-D's, so I'll be stress testing the 4000 with my 2405 and a 3007 (when I can order it) - simultaneously.

Can I make the Quadro cry uncle?

[mgleason007]

Was that a problem with the 30"er? I only ever heard about it on the 23"er.

Dell doesn't make a 23"er

[grdh20]

I'm surprised that nobody cares about the fact that almost NO DESKTOP GRAPHICS CARD can use this monitor. NONE of NVIDIA's GeForce series of video cards are equipped with a dual-link DVI interface, which this monitor requires.

uhh . . :no:

82.12 Release Highlights:

* Adds support for GeForce 6800 GS AGP.

* Adds support for Dell 3007WFP panel. :)

* Mixed vendor support for NVIDIA SLI.

* TV-Out/HD-out support for NVIDIA SLI.

* Added support for VSync on Direct3D games when running NVIDIA SLI.

* Performance enhancements for dual-core CPUs.

* PureVideo high definition MPEG-2 de-interlacing support.

* Usability enhancements when connecting to an HDTV.

* Microsoft? DirectX? 9.0c and OpenGL? 2.0 support

* For a full list of fixed and known issues please view the Release Notes.

ftp://download.nvidia.com/Windows/8...nxp_english.exe

[mikeboy]

ermmm, so in conclusion, those of us with non Quadro Nvidias... can we use the damn screen or not? Drivers dont transform DVI into DVI-D do they?

[excalpius]

You need to check the stats for your particular card (via google, manufacturer's website, or your manual). Some manufacturers (like Asus) have supported DVD-D since the FX5200 days. :)

[Mx]

/me is sad. It doesn't have component inputs, etc like the 2405. :(

[TEX4S]

ya know - Im thinking a 30 " LCD is almost TOO big - for most desktops/PC gamers etc. If youre sitting approx 1.5 feet from this thing its like a relative movie screen where you have to move your head instead of moving your eyes....or am I just trying to talk myself out of buying one ?? :blush:

[stlic]

Once again, here is the list of totally confirmed desktop video cards that will work:

ATI Radeon X1800 CrossFire Edition

ATI Radeon X1800 XT

ATI Radeon X1800 XL

ATI Radeon X1600 XT

ATI Radeon X1600 Pro

That's it. The Radeon X1300 series has the option to support the DVI-D interface (which this monitor requires), but as far as I know, there is no shipping Radeon X1300 product that has implemented it yet.

I'm surprised that nobody cares about the fact that almost NO DESKTOP GRAPHICS CARD can use this monitor. NONE of NVIDIA's GeForce series of video cards are equipped with a dual-link DVI interface, which this monitor requires. Only their Quadro FX series has that. On the ATI side of things, you will have to have either a Radeon X1800 XT or Radeon X1800 XL, which have two dual-link DVI ports; or the Radeon X1600 XT and Radeon X1600 Pro, which can have either a single or two dual-link DVI ports. Some Radeon X1300 Pro cards might have a single dual-link DVI port as well, but it is up the board manufacturers (I don't think any of them have done it yet).

In case you are wondering how Anandtech.com and other places can test games at resolutions even higher than this monitor on NVIDIA and ATI cards, it is because they are using a high-end CRT, which is a completely different type of technology and uses a totally different interface (the 15-pin D-Sub).

Okay my, admittedly limited, understanding is that video cards have DVI-I connectors which are effectively DVI-D + DVI-A. So it really boils down to which cards support a dual-link connection to support this board, 2 would be nice but seriously 2x30"?!.

From nVidia FAQ:

The Apple 30-inch Cinema HD Display runs at a native resolution of 2560x1600. This resolution is higher than most graphic cards are able to support. In order to drive the ultra high resolution of the Apple 30-inch Cinema Display HD, a graphics card needs to include a dual-link DVI port. A graphics card which features a dual-link DVI port combines two TMDS transmitters to drive higher digital resolutions than a single TMDS transmitter is capable of. This is different from a card which provides dual DVI connectors. Most graphic cards provide a single link DVI connector(s).

On the Apple Macintosh platform, the following graphic controllers supports the Apple 30" Cinema Display in its native resolution at the time of this publication:

NVIDIA Geforce 6800Ultra DDL AGP for Powermac G5

NVIDIA Geforce 6800GT DDL AGP for Powermac G5

NVIDIA Geforce 6600 PCI Express for Powermac G5(PCI Express)

NVIDIA Geforce 7800GT PCI Express for Powermac G5(PCI Express)

NVIDIA QuadroFX 4500 PCI Express for Powermac G5(PCI Express)

For the PC Windows platform, the following graphic cards support the Apple 30" Cinema Display:

NVIDIA QuadroFX 2000

NVIDIA QuadroFX 3000

NVIDIA QuadroFX 3400

NVIDIA QuadroFX 3450

NVIDIA QuadroFX 4000

NVIDIA QuadroFX 4400

NVIDIA QuadroFX 4500

NVIDIA Geforce 7800GT

NVIDIA Geforce 7800GTX

NVIDIA Geforce 7800GTX 512

For more information on the Apple 30" Cinema Display, please visit Apple's website at:

http://www.apple.com/displays/

Please note that the Apple 30-inch Cinema Display HD will not operate in DOS mode on the PC.

--------------------------------------

I think that pretty much throws you proclamations out of the window, no?

Edited December 24, 2005 by stlic

[stlic]

You should really do some research before posting such false information. I checked out the websites of all of the manufacturers' of GeForce 7800 and GeForce 6800 series cards. I found out that NO ONE has made a GeForce product with a dual-link DVI port. ALL of the GeForce 7800 series cards are equipped with dual DVI-I connectors. ASUS also does not list a GeForce 6800 vanilla card with a DVI-D connector, only with a single DVI-I connector. So, as I said originally, there has never been a GeForce card with a DVI-D connector. NVIDIA did make a special GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL for Apple that came with dual DVI-D connectors, but that card cannot be used in a PC system.

As for ATI, I also checked them out. ATI does say on its website that Radeon X850 and Radeon X800 products can support a single DVI-D port, but after checking all of the websites of the add-in board partners (along with Built By ATI cards), I once again found out that there has never been a Radeon X850 or Radeon X800 card equipped with a dual-link DVI port.

So, what you are left with is the Radeon X1800 series that all have two DVI-D connectors, the Radeon X1600 series that all have at least one DVI-D connector (although it is possible to have two of them), and potentially the Radeon X1300 series, which although they can have a DVI-D connector, I am not aware of any manufacturer doing this yet. The NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 has two DVI-D connectors, and most of the rest of the Quadro FX lineup has at least one DVI-D connector.

What is the difference between DVI-D or DVI-I?

Often the safest choice for a DVI Cable for a new DVI video card connecting to a DVI Monitor is a DVI-I to DVI-I single link cable. If the card and monitor are more resent a dual link cable may be needed. In most cases either will work. If a connection is DVI-D, and properly designed, you will not be able to plug in a DVI-I cable but should use a DVI-D cable, even if one of the devices you are connecting is DVI-I. If your monitor is older and you want to ensure that you are using the digital connection, a DVI-D cable would usually be a better choice.

Here.

DVI-I - Both DVI-D and DVI-A

DVI-I format is an integrated cable which is capable of transmitting either a digital-to-digital signal or an analog-to-analog signal, but it will not work transmitting a digital-to-analog or analog-to-digital signal. DVI-I contains both the digital and analog connections, (DVI-D + DVI-A) , it's essentially a combination of DVI-D and DVI-A cables within one cable. (female connection on back of video card shown for DVI-I)

Here.

DVI-I:

DVI-I contains both the digital and analog connections, (DVI-D + DVI-A) , it's essentially a combination of DVI-D and DVI-A cables within one cable. The I is for Integrated meaning a combination of both signals D and A.

Here.

2) I need a DVI-I to DVI-D cable - What part number do I buy?

You can purchase any DVI-D to DVI-D Cable as that is what you will be using.

Same source.

This is where the specification divides itself in two; the DVI-D connector features only the 24-pins necessary for purely digital operation while a DVI-I connector features both the 24 digital pins and the 5 analog pins. Officially there is no such thing as a DVI-A analog connector with only the 5 analog pins although some literature may indicate otherwise. By far, the vast majority of graphics cards with DVI support feature DVI-I connectors.

Here.

Okay so that above all say the same thing. The DVI-I connector on video cards is capable of handling both DVI-D and DVI-A. As the Dell 30" uses DVI-D you would simply need to use a DVI-D cable which would fit perfectly fine on the card's DVI-I socket.

I think you are confused.

DVI-I - 1 cable 1 connection

DVI-D - 1 cable 2 connections

Only some graphics cards have DVI-D (the D is for Dual) this monitor will not work over a DVI-I connection only a DVI-D connection.

It's so big that it requires 2 channels to deliver that high resolution.

The 2005FPW and 2405FPW work over DVI-I and DVI-D (without utilising the D part as DVI-D is backwards compatible with DVI-I cables and devices)

In this picture you can see the different DVI standards http://www.cable4pc.com/jpg/all.jpg

Almost 6000 posts right?!?

Sorry back to the original post I was dissecting.

I checked out the websites of all of the manufacturers' of GeForce 7800 and GeForce 6800 series cards. I found out that NO ONE has made a GeForce product with a dual-link DVI port. ALL of the GeForce 7800 series cards are equipped with dual DVI-I connectors.

PNY

Dual DVI-I Connectors

1 Single Link TMDS DVI Connector

1 Dual Link TMDS DVI Connector

eVGA

Resolution & Refresh

240 Hz Max Refresh Rate

2048 x 1536 x 32bit x 85 Hz Max Analog

2560 x 1600 and 1600 x 1200 Max Digital

"Sinle [sIC]Dual-Link TMDS Connector

-For a dual link TMDS, which is in essence two TMDS links bonded together, can display at resolutions up to 2048 x 1536 - and is the connector of choice for users of extremely large digital flat panels.

eVGA 7800GTX PDF Spec Sheet

"1 Dual Link TMDS DVI Connector"

Needless to say repeated in the spec sheets on their entire 7800 range.

Edited December 24, 2005 by stlic

[dL]

I thought it comes out on the 21st or something, so where is it?

dL

[Hurmoth]

I thought it comes out on the 21st or something, so where is it?

dL

Rescheduled for Jan. 5 ;)

[stlic]

Continued from previous post for completions sake:

To back up the fact that DVI-D is simply a derivative of DVI-I do you know what the specifications for the 2405 say is required for DVI connection? Do you know which cable is supplied with the screen (in front of me now)?

No prizes for guessing correctly.

In addition to the above links (if not sufficient) I've set up a Google search for you where you can see multiple mentions of a single dual-link DVI connection being present on 7800 series cards.

Some example taken pretty much at random:

The biggest hurdle to seeing more manufacturers release dual link DVI panels like Apple's (other than the sheer cost of the panel) is that very few video cards feature a dual link DVI output. It used to be that only professional graphics cards had dual link TMDS transmitters on board, but more recently, NVIDIA has outfitted their GeForce 7800 GTX with a single dual link TMDS transmitter. ATI not only followed in NVIDIA's footsteps, but improved by outfitting their Radeon X1800 XT with two dual link TMDS transmitters, to support two dual link DVI flat panel displays. Of course, this all applies to the PC side, as NVIDIA launched a version of their GeForce 6800 Ultra with two dual link DVI outputs for the Mac when Apple first released their 30" Cinema Display.

Here.

The backplate has the familiar dual DVI with a single dual-link DVI transmitter for supporting high-resolution displays along with a VIVO port.

Here.

The product is equipped with two DVI jacks (of course, Dual-Link), it supports VIVO.

Here.

More: www.avault.com

www.guru3d.com

The cooler hides the dual-link TMDS that drives the first of two DVI ports. The dual-link TMDS can drive larger digital displays than the single-link (1600 x 1200) DVI links on almost all other Nvidia boards made to date.

The Register

PNY was thoughtful with the bundled adapters, too. The Verto card has two digital video outputs--a great feature for those with LCD monitors. PNY also provides two DVI-toVGA adapters, which you'll need if you still have a CRT or an analog-only LCD. Like all GeForce 7800 GT cards, the Verto is capable of running dual-link DVI. This lets you achieve a maximum resolution of 2,560x1,600 at a 60Hz refresh rate, which high-end monitors such as Apple's 30-inch Cinema HD Display require.

CNET 7800 GT Review

A quick look at the box revealed something I must admit I didn?t realise, namely that the GTX has a dual-link TMDS transmitter, enabling you to drive a screen of up to 3,840 x 2,400 resolution ? that?s nine megapixels of display to play with. Alternatively, you could have two 24in screens attached to the card - one hanging off each DVI port, such as this very impressive Dell display.

Trusted Reviews 7800 GTX

You should really do some research before posting such false information.[/b]n.

You should really do some research before posting such false information.[/b]n.

You should really do some research before posting such false information.[/b]n.

You should really do some research before posting such false information.[/b]n.

Truer words have rarely been spoken.

EDIT: Actually this thread is full of misinformation but worse than that posters that actually posted seemingly accurate information were shouted down as being ill-informed with no evidence to prove them wrong. Unbelievable, particularly coming from members that have high post counts. I think is says a lot about the calibre of some Neowin members when they do not research something before writing it down as gospel. Even with the above information I would say that until I have a Dell 3007 in front of me connected to my 7800 GT I would not say that 100% is would work or it wouldn't work. The evidence simply points to the likelyhood that it would work fine.

Edited December 24, 2005 by stlic

[Smigit]

Once again, here is the list of totally confirmed desktop video cards that will work:

ATI Radeon X1800 CrossFire Edition

ATI Radeon X1800 XT

ATI Radeon X1800 XL

ATI Radeon X1600 XT

ATI Radeon X1600 Pro

That's it. The Radeon X1300 series has the option to support the DVI-D interface (which this monitor requires), but as far as I know, there is no shipping Radeon X1300 product that has implemented it yet.

Thats not it, people have been using the Apple 30inch display for well over 12 months now and that requires a similar connection method. How would people have used them if the only range of cards that support it wasnt released until 2 months ago.

As people have said, support is based on the card manufacturer, many older cards will work but in those older lineups dual DVI wasnt a chipset specification, just some companies offered it.

[houkouonchi]

I think a lot of people are getting confused here. DVI-I and DVI-D have nothing to do with wether it is dual link or not. DVI-I just means it can do analog/digital and DVI-D is digital-only.

Also when people talk about sites listing 2048x1536 for the maximum resolution etc. For starters that isnt the maximum resolution of the card's hardware, and that is calculated using the cards RAMDAC. on DVI-D you arent using the RAMDAC so those numbers become useless.

All you need to do is find out if its dual link or not (which may be difficult) to figure out if you can run this display at the full resolution/refresh rate.

Another thing I think people don't know is that even a single link can run this display at the full resolution just at a reduced refresh rate, such as 30 Hz instead of 60 Hz. Sure this isnt nice for gaming but it could be acceptable for desktop work. Unless, of course; the display doesnt accept a refresh that low, which would be gay.

I have a geforce go 7800 GTX; I know the desktop cards have a dual link connector however on my laptop it only has a DVI-D port. It definitely will take a dual link DVI cable but I don't know whether or not it has DUAL TMDS transmitters.

I am guessing you can't overclock the DVI like you can with the RAMDAC, an example is on an external CRT through the 15-pin DSUB I am pushing 420 MHz through the RAMDAC @ 2560x1920@64.4 Hz. This prooves that a lot of the specs on sites about max resolution/etc are worthless unless they think there are enough people around that would actually run at those settings. It definitely does not mean the card can't do it.

[mikeboy]

so, the max resolution stated on pages, is not the max of the card, its just the one people would use at maximum? I believe that so far there has been no need for such monstrous resolutions, meaning that those of us with 7800GTX can use this monitor then?

[houkouonchi]

so, the max resolution stated on pages, is not the max of the card, its just the one people would use at maximum? I believe that so far there has been no need for such monstrous resolutions, meaning that those of us with 7800GTX can use this monitor then?

according to the nvidia site the geforce 7800 series have a dual link card dvi port and can run the 3007WFP/30 inch apple.

Also its usually very hard to find the DVI spec's of a card, almost always the max resolution/etc are the analog resolutions through the 15 pin VGA. DVI-D doesnt use the RAMDAC so those numbers have no connection with what resolution it can do through DVI-D.

as someone already posted nvidia FAQ says the geforce 7800 series are dual link:

http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia....li=&p_topview=1

[Slimy]

Does anyone know a concrete date for the release of it?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

yeah i think it's january 6

[NextGen_Gamer]

This is in reply to stlic's prior posts (no way was I gonna quote those suckas):

Wow. Wow. Wow. For only 40 posts, I already feel like I should bow down to you. Bravo for showing people what a real, honest to goodness I've done my research post is like. Just so you know, I'm clapping my hands right now for you (and my cat is starring at me like I'm crazy or something).

I'm still confused on one part though. So when a video cards says it has dual DVI-I connectors, what does this truely mean? A single single-link DVI and a single dual-link DVI? Because I assumed that unless it specifically says it has a dual-link DVI or a DVI-D port, it doesn't have it (oh, and sorry I mised PNY's website; I totally forgot about them).

And one last note. If this massive thread has taught me anything, it's that manufacturers need to really re-think how their label the outputs of the video cards they make. DVI-A, DVI-I, DVI-D; all practically meaningless now. They need to really just type it out on their websites the way it is: One Single-link Plus One Dual-Link, or Two Dual-Link, or whatever.

[coolgus]

The 3007WFP User manual

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/3007WFP/

I only wish it had all the extra connections that 2405 has like composite, component and PIP. I don't know if there's any solution to that problem so I can have xbox360 and a tv sat receiver connected to this monitor

[stlic]

This is in reply to stlic's prior posts (no way was I gonna quote those suckas):

Wow. Wow. Wow. For only 40 posts, I already feel like I should bow down to you. Bravo for showing people what a real, honest to goodness I've done my research post is like. Just so you know, I'm clapping my hands right now for you (and my cat is starring at me like I'm crazy or something).

I'm still confused on one part though. So when a video cards says it has dual DVI-I connectors, what does this truely mean? A single single-link DVI and a single dual-link DVI? Because I assumed that unless it specifically says it has a dual-link DVI or a DVI-D port, it doesn't have it (oh, and sorry I mised PNY's website; I totally forgot about them).

And one last note. If this massive thread has taught me anything, it's that manufacturers need to really re-think how their label the outputs of the video cards they make. DVI-A, DVI-I, DVI-D; all practically meaningless now. They need to really just type it out on their websites the way it is: One Single-link Plus One Dual-Link, or Two Dual-Link, or whatever.

lol.... looking back it looks like I really was bored at the time...:p

Two DVI-I connectors means just that and is different from single or dual link DVI. Both single and dual link DVI use the DVI-I connector. DVI-D is a component of DVI-I, basically DVI-I = DVI-D + DVI-A. If a card has DVI-I it can handle both DVI-D AND DVI-A.

Agree with you on the last point; even though reviews and nVidia's own website cover the fact that 7800 GT and GTX cards have a single dual-link capable DVI-I (remember DVI-I can handle DVI-D) manufacturers don't make it very clear. I checked all the nVidia board companies and did not find the capability clearly stated in most. I guess this is simply because it is a feature that can be considered as having limited appeal and so manuacturers simply forget. As mentioned above by another poster manufacturers themselves regularly get maximum supported resolutions wrong. I remember when I was looking for a card capable of 1920x1200 I was given 1600x1200 as the theoretical DVI max when in reality most modern cards can handle the higher res without problems.

Also if you have a DVI LCD have a look at the connector that goes into your graphics card, is should be DVI-D and then look at your graphics card which will be DVI-I.

[michaelklachko]

Thank you stlic for your posts.

[b@nned]

3 more days till launch