Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD Addon a Beast?

[Spartan_X]

It's like Windows including Internet Explorer. Microsoft can 'brag' about how many people have it, but you've always got the choice not to use it.

Explorer comes with Windows, you don't want to use it? fine! install whatever you want... :yes:

BD comes with the PS3, you dont wan't to use it? fine! deal with it because you have no other choice. :no:

it all comes to down to choices, what if I don't want a BD player but I want to play Final Fantasy XIII, do I have a choice? NO! because I have no other choice than play it on the PS3 that is forcing me to pay for some I don't want!

as a customer my right to have a choice is void rigth there... :no: :pinch:

[AlphaPrime]

But what does it all come down to? What would be the only reason you wouldn't want a next-gen optical device in a next-gen console? The only reason I can see would be money, and like I said, you just need to wait for a price drop. Because really, if Blu-ray came at no extra price, I'd see no reason why you wouldn't want it, even if you didn't use it (which you still would because it's used for games).

Ironman273 - I just need to clarify when does a company bundling their own technology in their own product become a problem?

[Ironman273]

Even Sony admits that the PS3 is at that pricepoint because it includes BD. Imagine if Microsoft said "Windows costs $99, but beacause we include IE (which you may or may not use) we'll price Windows at $150." Think of all the benefit you get from that!!

To answer your question, when the pricing gets skewed out of proportion. I was hoping to get a PS3. Now I'm not. That doesn't make me happy.

[AlphaPrime]

Well then the only problem is the price, and the price will drop over time. Really, you just need to buy a 360 now and a PS3 later when you see that it's at a price you want.

[Spartan_X]

Welll...not quite. Because I'm happy with what their providing so it doesn't feel like I'm being raped :laugh:

But thanks for knighting me. Sir Bhav has a ring to it :rofl:

why can we be friends? :hug: :p

anyways, I'd never said BD is a bad technology because in fact its a great advance in that area, the problem is the way Sony is trying to implement its adoption by using the PS3 as a troyan horse for their media divisions. :pinch:

now, I'd seem some people talking about the "HD Era"... ohhh boy, when J Allard said the HD Era starts with the Xbox 360 he was refering to the "HD Gaming Era" nor the "HD Movie Era" as Sony is portraying the PS3 to be... :no:

can most people tell the difference between a 720p, 1080i and 1080p movie at first glance? I bet a few can do it, but can you say the same about video games in those formats? HD on games makes a whole difference and it's worth the price and from my point of view I rather pay $60 for a game than $30 for movie... :rolleyes:

also, as console gamers we were always being pick by PC gamers saying games on a consoles looks like crap, what are they saying now that games like Oblivion or GRAWF are out? right, they're biting their tongues because you can get similar or superior quality for the price of VC... go figure! :p

[Ironman273]

Well then the only problem is the price, and the price will drop over time. Really, you just need to buy a 360 now and a PS3 later when you see that it's at a price you want.

True, which is probably what I will do. But it does annoy me that because of the choice of pushing their format, I have to wait to buy their product. In fact, maybe I'll be content with my XBox and decide that I don't want the PS3 anymore. Possibly a lost sale.

[AlphaPrime]

also, as console gamers we were always being pick by PC gamers saying games on a consoles looks like crap, what are they saying now that games like Oblivion or GRAWF are out? right, they're biting their tongues because you can get similar or superior quality for the price of VC... go figure! :p

Well PC gaming has it's advantages. Such as much higher resolutions, keyboard and mouse support, faster loading times, etc. Right now 360 looks as good, and sometimes better, but with DX10 and the new video cards coming out later this year, that gap between PC and console gaming will begin to appear again in a year or so. But PC gaming is more expensive, yes, although you also use your computer for many other things, so it's worth it to a lot of people.

I have to wait to buy their product.

That's probably a good thing. Afterall, most of the good games don't come out till next year anyway, you might as well just wait and avoid the problems of being amoung the first to buy a product.

[Meshuggah]

I have a question....In all of this BD arguments.... NO ONE seems to bring this argument up.

Doesn't the BD have more bandwith than the xbox 360's dvd player? Reason I ask is because if more games start to do what GTA IV will do (where terrain loads all the time) wouldn't Sony's optical format be a lot better for it, as the playstation 3 will be able to provide more bandwith?

Dunno, but I would tend to say so. To me, that is the only advantage of using BD. I could care less about the extra space for HD CG.

[Spartan_X]

That's probably a good thing. Afterall, most of the good games don't come out till next year anyway, you might as well just wait and avoid the problems of being amoung the first to buy a product.

that is correct, and we all know that it will take Sony about 2 or 3 revisions before you can get a reliable PS... :p

I got my PS2 Slim model 75001 CB about 11 months ago and it's working like a charm... ;)

[AlphaPrime]

Doesn't the BD have more bandwith than the xbox 360's dvd player? Reason I ask is because if more games start to do what GTA IV will do (where terrain loads all the time) wouldn't Sony's optical format be a lot better for it, as the playstation 3 will be able to provide more bandwith?

Well, it depends on what speed Blu-ray drive PS3 has. If it's 2x, then there would be little difference. If it's 4x, it'll be faster.

[Spartan_X]

I have a question....In all of this BD arguments.... NO ONE seems to bring this argument up.

Doesn't the BD have more bandwith than the xbox 360's dvd player? Reason I ask is because if more games start to do what GTA IV will do (where terrain loads all the time) wouldn't Sony's optical format be a lot better for it, as the playstation 3 will be able to provide more bandwith?

Dunno, but I would tend to say so. To me, that is the only advantage of using BD. I could care less about the extra space for HD CG.

that is correct and that is one of the advantages of it, problem is... if the developer doesn't know how to use it you'll end up with a lot of "read disk error" messages as the bigger the bandwidth you have on your optical drive the most you have to have to take care about how you manage your memory.

you'll get a read disk error message when you have lets say 50mb of cache available and the game engine ask for a 75mb file, because of the higher bandwidth the file will be send to the cache at higher speeds than the cache it's actually being cleaned and depending in how your engine is able to manage the file queue you'll end up with mess in your cache because it will assume the file was not send when it was requested when in fact it was send but you didn't have enough space to store such file and now you have 233 more files being send to your cache... AT ONCE... :p

:happy:

[Meshuggah]

talk about a mother****ing run on sentence. :D

thanks for the info though

[Spartan_X]

talk about a mother****ing run on sentence. :D

thanks for the info though

my bad... :blush:

grammar is not my forte and English is not my native tongue anyways... that's like my third language.

:laugh: :rofl: :p

oh well... glad to help buddy, have a nice day! :happy: :yes:

[notuptome2004]

\

Well when Xbox 1 came out it gave users the choice to watch movies or not by buying a $30 adapter and well because of that ther were some peaple that complaind cause they had to spend more for ther choice. now while PS2 users went Neener neener and siad we have DVD playback.

now for the IE statement umm well IE has always been aprt of windows and you dont ever have to use it if you dont want, and the exlusion of IE or inclusuion of sutch 1 feature or prgram dont determin the price point . i dont eaither way dont like the PS3 or Blueray format but i can say that ya know the PS3 is backwards compatabile with all other formats .

ya know i havea friend and i really do he goes by i see no evil on MSN he has a CD burner/DVD rom combo and yet he refuses to buy a DVD burner as he says it is pointless... well i assure anyone who thinks that way it is not pointless when ya can burnk more data and music and or videos and alot of crap ona single disk. so it is his choice not to want a DVD burner nore use one evan if it is backwards compatable .

Xbox 360 has the HD-DVD drive optional witch is good because it gives the user a choice weather he is ready to go HDDVD or not and if he is the choice is made clear that he will be paying less for that then he would a TV setop HDDVD player prolly minus some functions possably but hey it is cheaper.

[Ironman273]

That's probably a good thing. Afterall, most of the good games don't come out till next year anyway, you might as well just wait and avoid the problems of being amoung the first to buy a product.

While that may make sense from the consumer standpoint, from a marketing standpoint of Sony it's bad. The end of my post states that I may find the XBox to be sufficient for my needs, and I may "cool" on the idea of getting a PS3.

As a company, you need to strike while the iron is hot. With the amount of posts I've read from people that say they won't get a PS3 because of price or they will wait till it drops in price I get the impression that Sony is pricing the PS3 too high. There were people anxiously awaiting the PS3 and they would've bought one immediately, but the price just put them on hold. Maybe they'll get an XBox, maybe they'll get a Wii, maybe they'll spend their money on something else. You can't afford to let a customer walk away and put them on "hold" because of price. What will happen is that the people, like the ones on this board, that say they'll buy anything with Sony written on it for any price will be the only adopters. The reason PS2 games are so abundant is because of the installed base. If the installed base of PS3s is small, game manufacturers will make a financial decision to not develop for the platform. BTW, please note I'm not saying that is what will happen, just a pretty basic economic scenario.

[AlphaPrime]

As a company, you need to strike while the iron is hot. With the amount of posts I've read from people that say they won't get a PS3 because of price or they will wait till it drops in price I get the impression that Sony is pricing the PS3 too high.

PS3 may sell at its current price, it may not. But if there's one thing that's certain, it's that the Internet is not a good place to tell, for a number of obvious reasons. We'll see at the end of the year how things go.

[SuperJediMedia]

Size Concerns me NOT!

All that matters is the Price!!!

Cheaper than $100, Hopefully! :)

[spenser.d]

But what does it all come down to? What would be the only reason you wouldn't want a next-gen optical device in a next-gen console? The only reason I can see would be money, and like I said, you just need to wait for a price drop. Because really, if Blu-ray came at no extra price, I'd see no reason why you wouldn't want it, even if you didn't use it (which you still would because it's used for games).

Ironman273 - I just need to clarify when does a company bundling their own technology in their own product become a problem?

Uhh, I don't want a next-gen player because I don't need one. You obviously don't need the space for games, and I don't have an HDTV, and probably won't have one until close to such time that the generation of consoles after this one arrives.

So, why would I want a next-gen player?

-Spenser

[AlphaPrime]

You obviously don't need the space for games

Thanks for clearing that up Mr. Game Developer.

I don't have an HDTV, and probably won't have one until close to such time that the generation of consoles after this one arrives.

Then get a Wii and be done with it.

So, why would I want a next-gen player?

Well you won't be getting a HDTV so you wouldn't. So you just don't buy it.

[Bhav]

You obviously don't need the space for games

Obviously :sleep:

[SoCalledChaos]

you really dont need 50gb's thats just being over zealous

[AlphaPrime]

you really dont need 50gb's thats just being over zealous

Well yeah, 50GB is a bit extreme for this gen.

[magik]

Of course more space is a good thing to have, but the question boils down to necessity versus price. Right now, most games barely go over the single DVD layer capacity of 4.7GB, so is it absolutely necessary? We'll leave that up to the developers to decide and be done with it. This thread was supposed to be about the size of the Xbox 360 HD-DVD addon, why did it veer so far off track? :p

[+vlsi0n Subscriber¹]

I think that dev's having ~50GB will equal to sloppy code, low optimization and a lot of fluff. Not all of them, some still have standards, but if you give people room (a lot of room) to slack, then they might just take it. Just IMO though.

But IMO MS is in a safe spot with this add-on, if HD-DVD doesn't end up being worth while then they can just stop making it. With the blu-ray drive in the ps3, if that flops then you'll have it for just the games (oh no right?, too bad it was never once called a gaming system lol) and for the odd movie that might be released for it.

To me it seems there's a lot of hanging around; we need time to answer a lot of the debates going on here. ;)

[PL_ Veteran]

I think that dev's having ~50GB will equal to sloppy code, low optimization and a lot of fluff. Not all of them, some still have standards, but if you give people room (a lot of room) to slack, then they might just take it. Just IMO though.

But IMO MS is in a safe spot with this add-on, if HD-DVD doesn't end up being worth while then they can just stop making it. With the blu-ray drive in the ps3, if that flops then you'll have it for just the games (oh no right?, too bad it was never once called a gaming system lol) and for the odd movie that might be released for it.

To me it seems there's a lot of hanging around; we need time to answer a lot of the debates going on here. ;)

Hence why, technically, as long as PSP is doing OK, UMD WILL NOT DIE!!!111