Screenshots from the latest Leopard build

[.Neo]

And before all the Apple fans start a flame war, really think: Is the jump from 10.4 to 10.5 *really* that big? No. Is it worth $100? Not a chance.

It's similar to the jump from XP to XP SP2, except for the price tag.

And you know this how? Because Apple already previewed all of Mac OS X Leopard's mayor features? No.

So does your "XP to XP SP2, except for the price tag" comparison mean anything? Not a chance.

[the evn show]

And before all the Apple fans start a flame war, really think: Is the jump from 10.4 to 10.5 *really* that big? No. Is it worth $100? Not a chance.

It's similar to the jump from XP to XP SP2, except for the price tag.

Oddly enough, I said the same thing about Windows Vista.

• And before all the Microsoft fans start a flame war, really think: Is the jump from Windows XP to Windows Vista *really* that big? No. Is it worth up to $400? Not a chance.
  It's similar to Windows XP to XP SP2, except for the price tag.
  

hrm... that was easy. I wonder...

• And before all the poop-in-your-own-bathrrom fans start a flame war, really think: Is the jump from pooping-on-the-sidewalk to pooping-in-your-own-bathroom *really* that big? No. Is it worth $250,000+? Not a chance.
  It's similar to Windows XP to XP SP2, except for the price tag.
  

Wow, I'm going to file this argument away. It's not often you find something so devoid of thought that you can recycle it for nearly any topic. Wow.

A guest account? Holy crap did that ever take a long time to come out!!!

Apple's first operating system with user accounts and permissions shipped in 1988 to run on the Quadra, Mac II, and Centris models. I've forgotten, what was the state of Microsoft multi-user multi-tasking operating systems at that time?

[MrA]

I've forgotten, what was the state of Microsoft multi-user multi-tasking operating systems at that time?

Me, me! I know. Xenix. Granted, MS didn't write any of it, but hey, it's still a multi-user, multi-tasking OS as in any other unix.

BTW, that was meant to be a half-assed reply.

EDIT: Or maybe not. MS sold the rights to Xenix to SCO in 1987.

[osirisX]

I'm really liking where the Leopard UI is heading. It seems Apple are removing most of the gel, which is great. Also loving how Spotlight is having more stuff added to it.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

If you want to be anal about it, it's a demo of AppKit. It has no more to do with Quarts than Terminal or Disk Utility. QuartzComposer is Apple's demo of Quartz.

Quartz is the drawing API, so a drawing sample would kinda have something to do with it. :laugh:

Anyway, yeah, it's a demo of AppKit, but there is a app called CarbonSketch in the Quartz directory, showing that is it both a Quartz and AppKit demo. :p

No need to argue over it anyway, it's not a competitor to Photoshop, and it's not a competitor to Pain, it's a sample vector drawing app.

And can we get over the whole "it's only a service pack!" thing, it's a point release, introducing new API's and the like, just like the jump from NT 5.0 to NT 5.1

[PyX]

Hey come on, only a few bucks for a full pack new features and more speed in the OS, people are so cheap... It's gonna be 90 canadian bucks for me, I'm a student, so it's even more a joke. I'm gonna work one day and go buy Leopard right after my shfit :p

When I said "something like paint", I just meant "a really basic picture editor" so that we can... I dunno.. add text, create some shapes, add colors, crop and resize... Nothing really fancy, just the basic. I don't think there's the need to argue for anything. When Photoshop CS3 is gonna be out and optimized for Intel, I will forget this request anyway.

[LTD]

Seems the UI is taking cues from itunes 7, which isn't a bad thing at all. A little more modern and elegant, I think.

I honestly don't mind paying for Leopard. Further, we still have no idea what the the full feature set will be, so it's still too early to indulge in cost vs. benefits analyses.

[.Neo]

we still have no idea what the the full feature set will be, so it's still too early to indulge in cost vs. benefits analyses.

Exactly.

I think it's too bad they stopped giving us feature complete betas from the start like they did with previous Mac OS X versions, but very understandable.

[DrunkenMaster]

Jobs promised us a whole bunch of secret features. Of the stuff that's been released so far, I don't think any of it is the secretive stuff. Apple hasn't let me down on cool and interesting products, so I'm really hopeful this stuff is going to be interesting.

OTOH, if these secret things are really big, and developers won't have much time to test it, I wonder how this will impact on quality control. I figure if they are going to release by spring, the December build would have to have some of the secret features for developers to try if they are going to let them test it.

[.Neo]

When it comes to quality, initial Mac OS X releases have never been very good. Mac OS X 10.4 8A428 (Gold Master/GM build) had tons of issues and felt like a public beta that happened to ship with all new Macs, where Mac OS X 10.3.9 was rock solid.

Personally I don't have much faith in that it will be any different when switching from 10.4.x to 10.5 GM.

[DrunkenMaster]

@ Neowave - As a first time Mac user (I bought my iMac when Tiger was first released) I would agree.

Which is probably why I'm going to wait for at least one patch level before installing it.

I'm still hoping for some really cool features though.

[.Neo]

Some more updates:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2254

QuickLook: A fast new way to view images straight from the Finder without having to launch Preview.

QuickLook sounds a bit pointless to me as Preview takes no time to launch, especially when setting it to open image files by default. Unless they're beefing up Preview to have a more robust feature set.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Neowave

[Matt T]

QuickLook sounds a bit pointless to me as Preview takes no time to launch, especially when setting it to open image files by default.

That's what I thought too. QuickLook actually seems worse in a way because you need to right-click the file and select the QuickLook option as opposed to quickly double-clicking the file to open it in Preview. I don't see the point to QuickLook at all. :s

[hotdog666al]

I don't like the amount of black interfaces there are. The Quickview window looks crappy and the spaces pop-up looks terrible (N)

:(

I have faith in Apple to come out with something amazing in the end though.

[.Neo]

The thing that annoys me the most is that with every recent Mac OS X release we're confronted with yet another window style:

Mac OS X Cheetah:

• Aqua
  

Mac OS X Panther:

• Introduction of Brushed throughout the system
  
• Expos? layer
  

Mac OS X Tiger:

• Unified Aqua
  
• Introduction of glossy window elements
  
• Introduction of soft matte window elements
  
• Unified Brushed iLife '06 style
  
• Unified Brushed iTunes 7 style
  
• Expansion of Expos? layer for Dashboard
  
• Front Row layer
  

Mac OS X Leopard:

• Introduction of HUD Panels throughout the system
  
• Expansion of Expos? layer for Spaces
  
• Expansion of Front Row-type layer for Time Machine
  
• Expansion of Unified Brushed iLife '06 style for DVD Player
  
• Funky Unified Aqua stuff (?)
  

If Apple actually replaced those styles with new types (Brushed with Unified Brushed for example) it wouldn't be so bad, but currently they're just stacking them up like crazy. Mac OS X Tiger is pure madness because of all the non-standard styles and button elements, which don't seem to have any real guidelines of how they should be applied at all.

If anything Mac OS X Leopard needs to correct this.

[allannyholm]

Who says that there has to be a certain rule as to how Apple implements window surfaces? Is there a specific page that tells about this?

I like what I see in these latest screenshots of Leopard. I have no complaints.

[.Neo]

Who says that there has to be a certain rule as to how Apple implements window surfaces? Is there a specific page that tells about this?

Apple's HUMAN INTERFACE GUIDELINES

[allannyholm]

edit: nevermind what I said. I'm drunk.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Visualize

[suspiria]

There are more important things to worry about than the GUI.

[Menge]

There are more important things to worry about than the GUI.

<sarcasm>yeh! look at windows! it cares about ANYTHING ELSE other than gui.</sarcasm>

GUI is a futility? yes. is it needed? YES! the whole Mac user experience revolves around a rational GUI... worry about features... but worry about how they appear to the user, too.

[suspiria]

<sarcasm>yeh! look at windows! it cares about ANYTHING ELSE other than gui.</sarcasm>

GUI is a futility? yes. is it needed? YES! the whole Mac user experience revolves around a rational GUI... worry about features... but worry about how they appear to the user, too.

I do realize that the Macintosh user experience is extremely important, but what's wrong with how those features are displayed to the user now? Of course, everything in this thread is a matter of personal taste, but the last thing I want Apple to do is turn the default GUI into UNO. However, I agree completely with Neowave in that Apple should pick at the most two interfaces for all it's apps, either Aqua/Unified or Unified Brushed.

Though I think calling it "pure madness" is a bit over-exaggerated. But again, personal opinion and taste.

[.Neo]

Though I think calling it "pure madness" is a bit over-exaggerated. But again, personal opinion and taste.

When it comes to interface rules Mac OS X Tiger is "pure madness", not the OS as a whole. That's what I meant. None of the HIGs have been updated to support the new Aqua elements. There are endless discussions on different forums of how "Unified Aqua" should be applied.

I read one recently about Camino's Preferences window and why it should/shout not be Unified. The developers state that the window style should be applied to match individual taste while others say it's meant for Spotlight enabled applications only, and Preferences windows should be default Aqua at all times. Just to give an example.

And you might want to take the "pure madness" thing with a grain of salt. ;)

[Elliott]

Apple's HUMAN INTERFACE GUIDELINES

RAWR!

Yes, Neowave, keep speaking out for the cause! You must get as lost as I because, in a few applications, the toolbar is striped and in others it's unified with the title bar. It's a cruel, cruel world that makes you look at two or three beautiful window styles instead of one. :no:

I don't think Unified has any defined "use it exactly for this" sort of thing. It's just "use it if you think it looks better." I wouldn't be surprised if it's just phasing out the striped toolbar.

Edited November 26, 2006 by Elliott

[osirisX]

I don't like Quicklook, seems pointless. I also don't like the gloss black interface it's using. The TimeMachine Drive icon is nice though.

[+vlsi0n Subscriber¹]

eh, nothing impressive to me. :/