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:o oh i'm gonna get it now for revivng this topic over soemthing like this that i had all ready posted earlier. :ninja: oh well. i know they're out there, so i'm gonna keep trying till i find them.... :rolleyes: i know longhorn has some stuff new in it i want. could someone please send me the cursors, icons, sounds, and wallpaper from it? i don't care from what build, but if they've changed over time, please send me it all. please forgive me for resurecting this thread over something like this! :pinch:

Ryan.?

http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/

Open Source TCPA Linux Driver

:D

Maybe you can decide for yourself whether TCPA is really so controlling now?

Hmm.. How did I end up back here after all this time? Oh well as for that comment you should be clear that TCPA is not DRM and is not Palladeum. Paladeum and DRM as MS' evil plan to take over the world, TCPA is a harware facility that is meant to protect your computer against the execution of bad code. That doesn't mean illegal stuff, it just means badly written code and bad viruses. Palladeum is MS' b*stard perversion of TCPA a chip, designed and built by them to mimic the best features of the TCPA and add several more propriatory features of MS' own design, most of which relate to DRM technology. Which basically boils down to MS deciding for you what you can and cannot do with your computer.

Its a fairly significant distinction. But just in case you ever come accross the subject again, think of it in terms of "TCPA good", "Palladeum and DRM" bad... Paladeum is still a vile technology who's ultimate objective remains to crucify the GPL and eliminate the free exchange of non MS certified software. They have lied and falsely associated themselves with TCPA in an attempt to hijack what is potentailly a very useful and non invasive technology for their own selfish and entirely malicious ends. Do not confuse the two.

Q

http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/

Open Source TCPA Linux Driver

:D

Maybe you can decide for yourself whether TCPA is really so controlling now?

Hmm.. How did I end up back here after all this time? Oh well as for that comment you should be clear that TCPA is not DRM and is not Palladeum. Paladeum and DRM as MS' evil plan to take over the world, TCPA is a harware facility that is meant to protect your computer against the execution of bad code. That doesn't mean illegal stuff, it just means badly written code and bad viruses. Palladeum is MS' b*stard perversion of TCPA a chip, designed and built by them to mimic the best features of the TCPA and add several more propriatory features of MS' own design, most of which relate to DRM technology. Which basically boils down to MS deciding for you what you can and cannot do with your computer.

Its a fairly significant distinction. But just in case you ever come accross the subject again, think of it in terms of "TCPA good", "Palladeum and DRM" bad... Paladeum is still a vile technology who's ultimate objective remains to crucify the GPL and eliminate the free exchange of non MS certified software. They have lied and falsely associated themselves with TCPA in an attempt to hijack what is potentailly a very useful and non invasive technology for their own selfish and entirely malicious ends. Do not confuse the two.

Q

I would like to see 100% factual proof on the BS you write.

Anything that controls what you do on YOUR computer is bad, I would rather see a few people get viruses then not beable to have there music collections and whatever else they want on there computer :p

MSs goal is to monoplize computers more then they have already :(

HEY!! i just installed windows longhorn.. takes a while to boott.. but its great.. now i just have to try out some programs.

how do you get windows update to work

You Dont.

Lornhorn is a piece of utter crap, its an experiment in this stage.

I would like to see 100% factual proof on the BS you write.

How about IBM? You need acrobat reader installed to read this but it is straight from IBM. It discusses how TCPA and Palladeum are two comletely different things. http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/tcpa...pa_rebuttal.pdf Palladeum is MS' own propriatory perversion of TCPA, an attempt to go a lot futher (take a lot more control of your computing experience). And enough with the bad mouthing pal. Anyway I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a lame ass AOL'er who has no clue about what's going on in the world around them. Just tell me one thing, which Linux distro are you currently using and which features do you like best about the latest kernel version? Tell me that and then I might believe you know what the hell you are talking about. Otherwise STFU and get an education...

Q

Ps

And to the guy above who did say something quite sensible. I agree dude, but you are confusing the two again. Read what TCPA is and what Palladeum is. There are very clear distinctions. TCPA has nothing to do with looking at what music you have on your computer. Again this is MS' idea to attempt to affiliate themselves with a respectible technology (when that technology really has nothing at all to do with them) and use it for their own selfish ends. As I have said before a little reading on the subject can reveal a lot. Mmm... yes I remember why I quit this thread before... I think it was because I suggested reading about it to some other AOL'ers who went completely ballistic at the idea that they might have to read anything... Well no doubt I will have rattled a few of their cages again for a bit... But I have no intention of wasting my time arguing with this kind of person. I just thought it prudent to help correct a common misconception. :)

Edited by raid517
How about IBM? You need acrobat reader installed to read this but it is straight from IBM. It discusses how TCPA and Palladeum are two comletely different things. http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/tcpa/tcpa...pa_rebuttal.pdf Palladeum is MS' own propriatory perversion of TCPA, an attempt to go a lot futher (take a lot more control of your computing experience). And enough with the bad mouthing pal. Anyway I'm not going to waste my time arguing with a lame ass AOL'er who has no clue about whats going on in the world around them. Just tell me one thing, which Linux distro are you currently using and which features do you like best about the latest kernel version? Tell me that and then I might believe you know what the hell you are talking about. Otherwise STFU and get an education...

Q

Ps

And to the guy above who did say something quite sensible. I agree dude, but you are confusing the two again. Read what TCPA is and what Palladeum is. There are very clear distinctions. TCPA has nothing to do with looking at? what music you have on your computer. Again this is MS' idea to attempt to affiliate themselves with a respectible technology (when that technology really has nothing at all to do with them) and use it for their own selfish ends. As I have said before a little reading on the subject can reveal a lot. Mmm... yes I remember why I quit this thread before... I think it was because I suggested reading about it to some other AOL'ers who went completely ballistic at the idea that they might have to read anything... Well no doubt I will have rattled a few of their cages again for a bit... But I have no intention of wasting my time arguing with this kind of person. I just thought it prudent to help correct a common misconception.:))

You seem to think you know a lot about me from a few words I write.

I cannot stand people that make stuff up, I go by facts and facts only in life. I have probably got a better education than you as I can tell from the way you write I am a lot older than you, you seem to be still in school.

Also You seem to have a lot of built up anger, were you abused as a child ?

By the way I have been a Network admin for 5 years, so don't try to get smart it doesn't work.

Edited by Jason

Why would MS create their own soup called SCP when they're a major player in the TCPA thing? Maybe that section in the IBM paper is based on rivality? Or maybe the guy just got it wrong just because MS did call the TPM differently, as they do with everything? MS assigns idiotic names to stuff all the time.

And what bugs me the most is that the Pd whitepapers are linked from Neowin instead of Microsoft (no offense meant).

By the way I have been a Network admin for 5 years, so don't try to get smart it doesn't work.

Lol network admin my a*s. If you were you would be able to understand what that document was talking about and the distinctions it made. As much as you can't stand people who trouble themselves to study the subject in some depth before passing any comment, I can't stand this level of mind numbing ignorance. Lol now its even being said that things comming from official sources aren't true. IBM is lying now. BTW that document doesn't come from Neowin its what's known as a HTML link (since you don't seem too clear on this) which links directly to the official IBM site. Basically I support TCPA, the documment explains why TCPA is good, but it also explains why TCPA and Palladeum are not the same thing - and therefore how by implication MS' affiliation with the Trustworthy Computing Initiative (which has been signed up to by many widely known and respected companies) is blatantly false - and is being used by them to push their own brand of DRM technology.

And as for being abused... Dude you started it off. If you give abuse you have to be prepared to accept abuse. If you had even remotely tried to respond in reasonable and respectible terms, no doubt you would have recieved the same back. But if you can't take what you dish out, then don't do it in the first place. Its that simple.

Q

Edited by raid517
Lol network admin my a*s. If you were you would be able to understand what that doccument was talking about and the distinctions it made. As much as you can't stand people who trouble themselves to study the subject in some depth before passing any comment, I can't stand this level of mind numbing ignorance. Lol now its even being said that things comming from official sources aren't true. IBM is lying now. BTW that document doesn't come from Neowin its what's known as a HTML link (since you don't seem too clear on this) which links directly to the official IBM site. Basically I support TCPA, the documment explains why TCPA is good, but it also explains why TCPA and Palladeum are not the same thing - and therefore how by implication MS' affiliation with the Trustworthy Computing Initiative (which has been signed up to by many widely known and respected companies) is blatantly false - and is being used by them to push their own brand of DRM technology.

And as for being abused. Dude you started it off. If you give abuse you have to be prepared to accept abuse. If you had even remotely tried to respond in reasonable and respectible terms, no doubt you would have recieved the same in return. But if you can't take what you dish out, then don't do it in the first place. Its that simple.

Q

There you go again making stuff up, I am 28 years old did an IT degree then got a job as a Network Admin, whats the big deal with that ?

IBM would say Palladium is bad as they are Microsoft's main rival, I doubt IBM have that much knowledge of what MS are doing with Palladium.

All I trust (currently) is the MS white paper on Palladium as they are the ones creating the thing.

off the subject...who is your avator picture keldyn? i originally thought it was you ive seen sum1 else with it so i guess not

Simon Baker plays Nick Fallin in 'The Guardian' tv series

http://www.tvtome.com/Guardian/

I'm sure that one reason for Keldyn's choice is that Simon Baker is a fellow Ozzie.

There you go again making stuff up, I am 28 years old did an IT degree then got a job as a Network Admin, whats the big deal with that ?

IBM would say Palladium is bad as they are Microsoft's main rival, I doubt IBM have that much knowledge of what MS are doing with Palladium.

All I trust (currently) is the MS white paper on Palladium as they are the ones creating the thing.

Lol big deal, your a network admin. My wife is a network admin at our local college, but she still comes to me to get me to fix her computer when things go wrong.

As for just trusting MS, well good luck to you. Your exactly the kind of fresh meat MS is looking for. Rivals or not that paper was very clear and very fair. It made no judgements about Palladeum - and only noted how Palladeum and TCPA were technically different and should not be confused. TCPA was an IBM concieved technology. It is MS who are attempting to falsely associate themselves with it and push their own DRM technology as an alternative. The only reason I dislike people like your good self is that your ignorance will potentially spoil the computing experience for the true enthusiasts among us, since this aritcle also clearly implies that MS' Palladeum technology, if widely adopted, could pose a grave threat to the GPL. I don't give a damn about Windows, or all the warez monkies in the world, but when you start to scr*w with the GPL then your going to run the risk of upsetting a whole lot of very bright people. On the scale of things, this isn't altogether a wise thing to do. This is about civil liberties and freedom of choice - and if you don't feel that these are pricipals worth fighting for then I certainly do. As I said, I hope you and MS will be very happy together. You definately deserve each other.

Q

Edited by raid517
There you go again making stuff up, I am 28 years old did an IT degree then got a job as a Network Admin, whats the big deal with that ?

IBM would say Palladium is bad as they are Microsoft's main rival, I doubt IBM have that much knowledge of what MS are doing with Palladium.

All I trust (currently) is the MS white paper on Palladium as they are the ones creating the thing.

Lol big deal, your a network admin. My wife is a network admin at our local college, but she still comes to me to get me to fix her computer when things go wrong.

As for just trusting MS, well good luck to you. Your exactly the kind of fresh meat MS is looking for. Rivals or not that paper was very clear and very fair. It made no judgements about Palladeum - and only noted how Palladeum and TCPA were technically different and should not be confused. TCPA was an IBM concieved technology. It is MS who are attempting to falsely associate themselves with it and push their own DRM technology as an alternative. The only reason I dislike people like your good self is that your ignorance will potentially spoil the computing experience for the true enthusiasts among us, since this aritcle also clearly implies that MS' Palladeum technology, if widely adopted, could pose a grave threat to the GPL. I don't give a damn about Windows, or all the warez monkies in the world, but when you start to scr*w with the GPL then your going to run the risk of upsetting a whole lot of very bright people. On the scale of things, this isn't altogether a wise thing to do. This is about civil liberties and freedom of choice - and if you don't feel that these are pricipals worth fighting for then I certainly do. As I said, I hope you and MS will be very happy together. You definately deserve each other.

Q

Well each to their own I don't care much for GPL, I also don't care about "warez monkies either" I work primarily with MS products (although we have some SUN servers) and I enjoy doing so.

I don't just trust MS but I do trust them more with their own products than I would a rival to tell me about them, but my mind is not closed as I said I go by facts but for now as not much information is around the MS white paper is about all I trust.

Palladium is being developed because people want better security and I hope it does exactly this, remember it will be optional, you don't have to use it.

Also, Your wife should not be in her job if she has to go to someone else to get a computer fixed.

Well each to their own I don't care much for GPL, I also don't care about "warez monkeys either" I work primarily with MS products
Perhaps you don't care, but it is unfair to say that it should be destroyed just because you don't care about it/can't grasp how it might be important. Even if you are a foaming at the mouth capitalist, you have to agree that freedom of choice and competition are healthy. Saying you will only believe MS is like saying that you will tolerate or accept no other perspective - regardless of the source. I find this particularly fanatical. It is hardly likely that MS will ever own up publicly to doing anything untoward with DRM - if this became wide spread knowledge it might very well impact negatively on them. They are almost permanently in court as it is. I don't doubt that this is where all this will end up again.

If your concerned with security TCPA is effectively the ultimate security solution. Palladium takes this much further and strays into areas such as which applications you can and cannot use, which web pages you can view, which songs or movies you can, or can't watch or listen to - and yes even which OS you use.

Palladium is being developed because people want better security and I hope it does exactly this, remember it will be optional, you don't have to use it.

Where is the optional component? MS believe they have sufficient influence to persuade almost everyone to adopt this technology over time. How optional' is it if in a couple of years you visit a web page and get an error message 'You need Palladium enabled to view this web page".This is the concern of the open source community, because although MS say that Open Source Software/OS' will work with Palladium enabled computers, much of this integration will require access to proprietary MS code... And since MS hold several very extensive patents on their palladium based technology, they are hardly likely to want to make this information available to those they see as being their main rivals. Not that open source developers would be in any rush to adopt DRM technology anyway - which is also something MS is banking on... Therefore by a slow process of adoption and strangulation, they destroy all their competition. There is nothing at 'voluntary' for the user in any of this. When practically everything you do asks you to have palladium turned on, what do you think the 'average', non computer savvy user (which represents the majority) will do? Turn the stupid thing on of course...

Also, Your wife should not be in her job if she has to go to someone else to get a computer fixed.

Keep that up dude and you really will make me mad, indeed in different circumstances.... If you want to get down and dirty maybe I should say something to insult your Wife, or girl (or inflatable sheep) too? But I'm not so low as that - and I won't stoop to your level. For your information my wife is a perfectly good network admin. It doesn't take much to stop a bunch of kids downloading porn and warez from the net, or from using stupid chat-lines during college time. She has a full technical support staff to handle any other stuff so rarely needs to become involved in any of the more complex aspects of network administration. Hell she trained from being a secretary in a year to be an admin. But I just happen to have a more in-depth understanding of computers and 12 years more experience than her. It would be nonsensical for someone with less experience not to occasionally seek the advice of a more experienced colleague. This happens all the time - although perhaps not in your world, as it seems you only need one perspective on any given subject, so long as that perspective is yours. I can't imagine you would be a very good network admin if this were the case. Anyway butt out of my personal life and I will butt out of yours. Got it???

Ahh you work with Sun too? Lol ok well its a start, though I would be curious about how much you really knew. In any case before you knock open source software, perhaps you should try it? It seems almost unnatural for someone who thinks they know so much about computers not to be messing with Open Source software too, as if you were a purist in any sense of the word, or even slightly interested in computers this is very much a natural progression of this sort of interest. Computers are not only my job, they are my interest and my passion too. If you had any heart or interest in the field, or any real understanding of open source software then the GPL would undoubtedly mean something to you as well.

But s you more or less said for yourself I guess ignorance is a temporary form of bliss. One day however you may come to agree with me on many of the points I have made here. But sadly by that time it will probably be too late to change anything.

Q

The one saving grace I guess is that MS will try and sell the perspective that any OS that isn't Palladium enabled is somehow insecure. But for anyone who knows anything about Linux, it will instantly be spotted for the fraud that it is. MS say they are trying to make their OS' more secure, but what they fail to acknowledge is that security is what Linux is. Linux does not just have security added on as an afterthought, Linux by its nature IS computer security. It is an OS (unlike Windows) that is built around security. From the first line until the last, it has been written with the idea of security in mind. All MS could ever really hope to do is catch up. and with the current state of affairs, it looks like it will take them many, many years to do this.

I'm sure someone will mention something about Linux viruses. So just so you know. In total there are 4 known Linux viruses, compared to literally thousands for MS OS'. Of those 4 none are harmful to the system and each can only infect systems that have been improperly configured by relative Linux/Unix n00bs. Once a system is properly configured it is impossible for these systems to come to any harm because of these viruses. That is why there is no requirement for anti-virus programs in Linux. Such programs are pointless, as Linux already incorporates multiple layers of security that are highly effective in stopping such viruses from spreading.

So any claim that is made that Linux is somehow not secure where Windows is, can safely be taken for the joke it clearly is. But my advice to anyone reading this is, if you think all of this is BS, try it first then see for yourself. Not that long ago I felt like you and the whole idea of learning something new scared me too. But I stuck at it and now I'm extremely pleased I did. I promise within 3 months of picking it up, providing you are willing to persist with it, you will wonder too what need there is in the world for a company like MS.

Freedom is an intoxicating brew. Once you have tasted it, you will not want to give it up.

Q

Lol ok 'next-generation secure computing base' it is then... Do you think they changed the name to stop people banding the word about so easily? :D I mean how on earth can you drop 'next-generation secure computing base' into a conversation???

Heck, they will probably find another name for it by the time its finished anyway. But its still a bad idea, whatever name they give.

Q

Edited by raid517
Lol ok 'next-generation secure computing base' it is then... Do you think they changed the name to stop people banding the word about so easily? :D I mean how on earth can you drop 'next-generation secure computing base' into a conversation???

Heck, they will probably find another name for it by the time its finished anyway. But its still a bad idea, whatever name they give.

Q

Actually, i don't think they'll change the name once again, it makes perfect sense.

Microsoft has CODENAMES for everything, and it was time that "Palladium" Turned into its official name "Next-Generation Secure Computing Base" that's is its objective, so i think the name, even though its long, makes perfect sense.

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