Vista, Office 2007 cracked. Kind of.

[MrCobra]

I find it strange that a company [MS] complains about piracy of their software and yet has been known to use pirated software while developing theirs. That is hypocrisy at its highest level.

[remix17]

Software is a real world physical object. Companies pay billions a year to hire people to create software.

No it is not. Read the rest of my post. I made it very clear what I mean. Don't take what I said out of context by quoting just a small portion of it.

Excuse me? You don't think over the last 5 years that Microsoft has consumed money and resources to develop Vista? What about paying all the employees? And maintaining their servers and network? If you can't pay for an OS for your computer and you don't want to use a free one, DON'T BUY A COMPUTER. It's that simple.

Same goes to you. You know god damn well what I said. Don't try to twist it. Why should I use a free OS or not buy a computer if I can get a good OS for free? Right now, give me a good reason! Oh and by the way "it is a crime" is not a good enough reason. Not all laws are just and not all just laws are just in all situations. I explained it very clearly in my post that in many situations piracy does not hurt anyone. The law makes no such distinction.

[DjmUK]

Looking at the Vista Comparisons, I have no need for the 'Ultimate Edition' that a lot of people are downloading il-legally. Vista Premium is the one I'll choose in the end (yes, it'll require a months savings)...but I'll have a clear conscience and a completely legal Operating System.

What's the rush, save up (exclude Xmas) and get Vista in say, February (patience young padwen).

P.S.

Lower Prices ftw \o/

[Joni_78]

Hypocrisy reeks here.

Raise your hands, all of you, who have copied games, have mp3s (illegal) on your harddrive or have otherwise conducted in non-legal activity anytime during your personal history? What, everyone?

What's that saying about throwing stones in a glass house ..

And everyone conviniently missed to read that :rolleyes:

So by your own statement, Windows is better than the alternatives, but you're not willing to pay for it. You're a jerk, and you're the reason we all can't pay less for software. Do you steal food from people, too?

Please read it again here.

I said there is no alternative to Windows. I want to be able to make a CHOISE which OS I wan't to buy. Now I have only one choise if I wan't to run games and software I have bought. So I think Vista is better than XP, I have nothing against the price of Ultimate Edition but I won't give a cent to that company until their market share has dropped atleast into 70% and there is competition.

If something keeps the Windows price up, it is the lack of competition (ever heard of monopoly?).

Oh and btw your nick sounds familiar have you ever used SC*GreyWolf?

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

Software is a real world physical object. Companies pay billions a year to hire people to create software.

Somehow I think you don't know what the definition of 'physical' is :blink:

[illicit]

This is why there needs to be stiffer penalties in place for piracy.

If I can't afford a chocolate bar, I don't steal it. If I can't afford a piece of software, I don't steal that either.

It is just common sense.

People always bitch and moan about the cost of software, yet they don't realize the cost of _making_ said software. Software authors are real people with real daily lives. Just as you value your money, so do they.

When you pirate a program that even costs as little as $25, you could be stealing $25 from someone's family. I don't care how big or how small the company is. They work hard to create the software we use, and they deserve to be paid for it.

Just as you deserve to be paid for the work you do.

Nicely said.

[riahc3]

God I hate replying on these threads

Even though pirates break every security MS throws at them, i got to say that over the years, things have gotten harder and harder to crack

Lie. As a matter of fact, things tend to get leaked/cracked earlier than released. Either software makers are making it easier or crackers are getting smarter; You decide.

This is why there needs to be stiffer penalties in place for piracy.

If I can't afford a chocolate bar, I don't steal it. If I can't afford a piece of software, I don't steal that either.

It is just common sense.

People always bitch and moan about the cost of software, yet they don't realize the cost of _making_ said software. Software authors are real people with real daily lives. Just as you value your money, so do they.

When you pirate a program that even costs as little as $25, you could be stealing $25 from someone's family. I don't care how big or how small the company is. They work hard to create the software we use, and they deserve to be paid for it.

Just as you deserve to be paid for the work you do.

Here comes Mr.Morally Wrong. Havent we heard this a thousand times....

Microsoft has never called me or sent me a letter saying "I love you" or "Happy birthday" or anything. They have never showed me love so why should I give a **** about them? If you wanna call me a pirate a thief a illegal etc then so be it and im damn proud of it. Besides, AFAIK (i may be wrong on this), Microsoft gains its profit thru the stock market. Im not 100% sure on this tho...

Where does is it stated that for $189 (the cost of XP Home) that you get lifetime support? How does that make any business sense at all?

Does your car come with a lifetime warranty? The toaster in your kitchen? The sofa in your livingroom? Of course not!

Why in blazing hell would you think that Microsoft should support a certain version of Windows for anything more than their projected life span?

I paid $39,000 for my car and I only got a 5 yr bumper to bumper warranty. So for $600 with Vista I should expect 20 yrs of support?

After 5 yrs if something goes wrong with my car, I either fix it, or get a new car. Same thing with software.

Now I have truly heard all the excuses for whining against Microsoft. This one takes the cake though.

Why did you pay 39,000 for your car when you could have gotten a car for say 20,000? Hell a car is for transportation not for having your nice little CD player, stereo, nice leather seats etc. You need to die and reincarnate and live life thru people's shoe who are obviously not doing so well as you are and who suffer and who wish to educate themselves with new technologies but as you say "steal" it.

When you realize that the world is not as rich as you and that most of the world could give a **** if stealing is morally wrong then you can post here your little antipiracy figures and why its wrong to pirate software. Meanwhile I will obtain free software that I need for my education on technological themes.

Another thing, you have to answer me this: Have you ever robbed a candy bar? Lied to your parents? Droven faster than the speed limit? Downloaded a song in MP3 format from the internet that you heard on the radio? Drinked liquor before 18? Smoke weed? If you have answered yes to one or more of these questions, then you have done something possibly illegal or morally wrong yourself. Do we care? No. Lets say you are 30 right now and you stole a candy bar from a store when you were 13 and you go back now and tell the man "I stole a candy bar from your store when I was 13" Would he care? Im 90% sure he wouldnt.

If you answered no to all of these questions, then you need to turn off your computer, find a girlfriend (a decent one at that) and live life a little bit more because you only get one life to live and it would be a shame to waste it on worrying about piracy.

[remix17]

Why did you pay 39,000 for your car when you could have gotten a car for say 20,000? Hell a car is for transportation not for having your nice little CD player, stereo, nice leather seats etc. You need to die and reincarnate and live life thru people's shoe who are obviously not doing so well as you are and who suffer and who wish to educate themselves with new technologies but as you say "steal" it.

When you realize that the world is not as rich as you and that most of the world could give a **** if stealing is morally wrong then you can post here your little antipiracy figures and why its wrong to pirate software. Meanwhile I will obtain free software that I need for my education on technological themes.

Another thing, you have to answer me this: Have you ever robbed a candy bar? Lied to your parents? Droven faster than the speed limit? Downloaded a song in MP3 format from the internet that you heard on the radio? Drinked liquor before 18? Smoke weed? If you have answered yes to one or more of these questions, then you have done something possibly illegal or morally wrong yourself. Do we care? No. Lets say you are 30 right now and you stole a candy bar from a store when you were 13 and you go back now and tell the man "I stole a candy bar from your store when I was 13" Would he care? Im 90% sure he wouldnt.

If you answered no to all of these questions, then you need to turn off your computer, find a girlfriend (a decent one at that) and live life a little bit more because you only get one life to live and it would be a shame to waste it on worrying about piracy.

Bravo! :yes: Nicely said! Hit the nail in the head there.

[Xab]

because the can get it for free and the software cost to much but if they bought the software the price would go down

So by your own statement, Windows is better than the alternatives, but you're not willing to pay for it. You're a jerk, and you're the reason we all can't pay less for software. Do you steal food from people, too?

I would like to think that you both arent really this naiive, and just work for Microsoft or have some other motivation for perpetuating this ridiculous myth. There does not exist one verifiable example in the capitalist world where the price of a product has actually gone DOWN because of a reduction in piracy or theft. Walmart will never do it, neither will Microsoft. Companies love to tell you they're the good guy, and that "the prices would come down if people would just stop stealing! Really! We promise!" It's just a load of crap.

Once a company knows people will pay X price, or knows you have no choice, like Microsoft does, they won't reduce prices for anything. They'll just keep milking you for every dime. And if piracy goes down, they'll laugh at you for believing them and rake in even more profit. The reason for this is simple: shareholders. If Microsoft went to their shareholders and told them "piracy is down by 20%, therefore we have lowered our software prices across the board. Our profits are down because of it, but we feel this is the right thing to do for our customers." The shareholders would throw a huge fit. Profits = everything in public companies.

Here's one last thing if you still buy into this silly argument. Microsoft started putting in the WGA checks in XP quite some time ago, and I'd all but guarantee you it's reduced casual piracy greatly. If it was having no effect at all, Microsoft wouldn't be continuing it. So where is our reduction in the price of Windows? Piracy has surely gone down some degree with WGA, as the casual pirates no longer feel like putting forth all the effort to get an illegal copy of Windows, and crack it, and patch it, etc. Vista is as expensive as ever. The only thing that will lower prices is if we all band together and boycott Windows, and use Linux. That will never happen, and Microsoft knows it.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Xab

[Joswin]

You can buy a cheaper toaster, or a cheaper kettle.... or sofa.....they all still do the same basic function. Your toaster makes toast (with the same bread as any other toaster) and the Kettle boils water (the same water as any other kettle) and the sofa lets anyone sit on it. If i buy a Kettle made by a brand like "Phillips" say i dont then need to go find "Phillips Branded Water" to use it......

Linux is not a real alternative, you cant go down to PC WORLD and buy some educational/business software for linux... Windows has the monopoly on the PC OS, so you either use Windows (of any description) or you cant get PC sofware normally though the high-street. And since the rest of the globe's PC's are using a Windows OS you leave yourself open to headaches with support/compatibility ect.... buy new hardware.. Linux drivers in the box? Probably not......

Btw the people saying that piracy is theft, facts are facts. Well isnt it still 'technically' illegal to make copies of your own music CD's in any form? Its just ignored since people class it as "fair use". I guess that makes them all thieves in that case.

As for the cracks and such, no matter what Microsoft do, someone will find a way around it, people dont just do this because they want "FREE SOFTWARE" they do it because its a challenge. Much like people who make virus's and such - their goal is not really to damage computers or files, its just a challenge and some recognition for the achivement.

[Hurmoth]

WRONG!

Piracy may well be wrong, but it is NOT theft, it's illegally making a COPY of something, when someone pirates they do not take away the resource that was there in the first place, they've created a second resource that they then use, albeit at no cost, no effort and illegally.

I will disagree with you. What's the difference between illegally downloading Windows Vista and going to Wal-Mart and taking a copy off the shelf will without paying for it? Absolutely no difference, at least not in my opinion.

Take one of the definitions of piracy. Now I know that this is an outdated definition, but it fits what I have to say: "robbery on high seas: robbery on the high seas, especially the stealing of a ship's cargo." Robbery, stealing, they go hand in hand don't they? So with that in mind, someone who pirates something is a thief.

[ToneKnee]

None of the lower editions are what I need, I'm going to have to get the Windows Ultimate since I log on via a Windows Domain Controller (Linux Samba) and I like using Media Center etc, not to mention other stuff like Remote Desktop we can't use in Home Premium and less.. :(

[hapbt]

The information wants to be free.

[riahc3]

I will disagree with you. What's the difference between illegally downloading Windows Vista and going to Wal-Mart and taking a copy off the shelf will without paying for it? Absolutely no difference, at least not in my opinion.

Take one of the definitions of piracy. Now I know that this is an outdated definition, but it fits what I have to say: "robbery on high seas: robbery on the high seas, especially the stealing of a ship's cargo." Robbery, stealing, they go hand in hand don't they? So with that in mind, someone who pirates something is a thief.

Ill tell you a few differences

1) I dont have to get my ass off the chair in front of my PC

2) I have less chance of getting caught

3) I can multitask while I download it; If I steal it off the shelf, Im stealing it off the shelf at that moment. If Im downloading it off say a torrent site, I can go out and hang out with my friends or do something else

There are a few bad differences of course

1) No package

2) No legal key (if you download it, its cracked somehow/way)

3) No CD (you gotta burn it)

But I personally thing most pirates don't care about the disadvantages.

[Hurmoth]

Ill tell you a few differences

1) I dont have to get my ass off the chair in front of my PC

2) I have less chance of getting caught

3) I can multitask while I download it; If I steal it off the shelf, Im stealing it off the shelf at that moment. If Im downloading it off say a torrent site, I can go out and hang out with my friends or do something else

There are a few bad differences of course

1) No package

2) No legal key (if you download it, its cracked somehow/way)

3) No CD (you gotta burn it)

But I personally thing most pirates don't care about the disadvantages.

How about legal differences :rolleyes:

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

I will disagree with you. What's the difference between illegally downloading Windows Vista and going to Wal-Mart and taking a copy off the shelf will without paying for it? Absolutely no difference, at least not in my opinion.

Take one of the definitions of piracy. Now I know that this is an outdated definition, but it fits what I have to say: "robbery on high seas: robbery on the high seas, especially the stealing of a ship's cargo." Robbery, stealing, they go hand in hand don't they? So with that in mind, someone who pirates something is a thief.

Because Wal-Mart now cannot sell that copy of Windows to another customer, they physically lost out on the actual product and on the sale that it would have produced - they have to replace that copy at cost. Whereas (For the sake of argument only) the copy I download via BitTorrent has no actual impact. It's an intangible copy.

This is where it differs from theft. It's copyright infrigment, not stealing.

[samriley]

piracy does not necessarily hurt anyone. if you have no intention of buying something then obtaining it makes no difference. it can actually help microsoft etc in terms of advertising, other software sales, reduced virus' and worms on the internet which also reduces spam etc (due to patch security holes). so its actually in their benefit if people do upgrade.

personally im not going to use vista, prefer winxp and linux over it. linux has come a considerable way in the last year or two and is becoming very much usable now take a look at ubuntu and aiglx theres quite a few videos of the things it can do. open office i prefer over ms office, it does all i need and it works as it should. no more "it looks like your writing a letter" help (when youre not) and no more "no you really do want that uppercase" and having to jump through hoops to get it.

with playing your old games and software there is wine which plays most things.

[remix17]

Because Wal-Mart now cannot sell that copy of Windows to another customer, they physically lost out on the actual product and on the sale that it would have produced - they have to replace that copy at cost. Whereas (For the sake of argument only) the copy I download via BitTorrent has no actual impact. It's an intangible copy.

This is where it differs from theft. It's copyright infrigment, not stealing.

^ The only different you need to worry about. So we have just established that piracy is NOT stealing. Good. That's progress.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

^ The only different you need to worry about. So we have just established that piracy is NOT stealing. Good. That's progress.

I'm not trying to justify that piracy is right, by any means. It's wrong but **** happens eh.

As long as it can be pirated, it will.

[Hurmoth]

Because Wal-Mart now cannot sell that copy of Windows to another customer, they physically lost out on the actual product and on the sale that it would have produced - they have to replace that copy at cost. Whereas (For the sake of argument only) the copy I download via BitTorrent has no actual impact. It's an intangible copy.

This is where it differs from theft. It's copyright infrigment, not stealing.

But Microsoft is still loosing. Hasn't Microsoft's license always stated that you don't actually own the copy of Windows you purchased, you just own the license that allows you to use Windows. So if you look at it that way, then regardless of whether or not you stole physical media or downloaded it from P2P network, you've stolen a license.

[remix17]

piracy does not necessarily hurt anyone. if you have no intention of buying something then obtaining it makes no difference. it can actually help microsoft etc in terms of advertising, other software sales, reduced virus' and worms on the internet which also reduces spam etc (due to patch security holes). so its actually in their benefit if people do upgrade.

Another truth: piracy does not necessarily hurt the companies.

[»X«]

MICROSOFT has invested more than you will ever realize into creating Windows Vista and Office 2007. The company _deserves_ to be paid for it's work.

I'll be the judge of that. So far Ive seen nothing in Vista to warrant forking out that cash for, let alone patting those guys on the back and saying well done, heres a raise.

I can safely say that although piracy is obviously an issue, I'm sure they will be enough legitimate buyers to keep M$ happy. Look at xp, how many people who you think pirated it? How many do you think are running illegal copies now? Did Microsoft go under? Did those employees cry themselves to sleep? No.

[riahc3]

How about legal differences :rolleyes:

Well one you steal the packaging, CD material, transportation costs etc

the other you steal a .ISO that wasnt even provided by Microsoft.

Guess online pirates are better.

[Hurmoth]

Another truth: piracy does not necessarily hurt the companies.

How does it not hurt the companies? :rolleyes:

A copy of Windows Vista Ultimate costs $399. If 1000 people pirated (and that number is probably extremely conservative) then Microsoft has lost $399,000 already. That is a small number compared to how many have actually already pirated, but you get the point. It can hurt the company.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

But Microsoft is still loosing. Hasn't Microsoft's license always stated that you don't actually own the copy of Windows you purchased, you just own the license that allows you to use Windows. So if you look at it that way, then regardless of whether or not you stole physical media or downloaded it from P2P network, you've stolen a license.

How can one lose what one does not have? If Microsoft does not have (and won't get) my money in the first place, how is me not giving them money stealing?

And the license is just a contract that allows you to use the software, you're still just using it against the terms of the [issue of the] license, you can't steal a license.

How does it not hurt the companies? :rolleyes:

A copy of Windows Vista Ultimate costs $399. If 1000 people pirated (and that number is probably extremely conservative) then Microsoft has lost $399,000 already. That is a small number compared to how many have actually already pirated, but you get the point. It can hurt the company.

They haven't lost anything, they just haven't gained anything. There's a difference.