FA Premier League Thread

[Martyn]

really, at least he won the EPL and did pick his lineup using a dartboard with players faces on it... benitez is honestly an idiot. You don't see man u or arsenal or even chelsea or anyone else good in this world flopping around their lineups EVERY game, it's stupid and makes no sense.

Houlier was there for six years, in the third year he won the league cup, fa cup, UEFA, carling and the super cup. Bentez isn't even close to what houllier accomplished and houllier did it in his third year, this is what? year four or five for rafa?

To be fair mate, I take most things you say with a pinch of salt these days. I remember you liked Rafa, hated him, liked him again and now you are back to hating him.

There is no guess work regarding the players that play in the matches. According to Rafa and his assistants (it is a shame Pako left, because he was one of the best number two's you could get), Rafa picks his team/tactics/formation judging on how the players train in training and the opposition in question (as in their strengths/weaknesses etc). By the way, people moan and moan about Liverpool rotating, but Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea have this season rotated MORE (FACT!) than Liverpool.

There is a media consipiracy to get Benitez out of his job in the UK at the moment, anyone who actually lives here can see that, it is the same as what happened to Martin Jol and Spurs. The press will not stop until Benitez is out of his job, and thankfully Rafa is taking action against News Of The World (The Sunday S*n) for making stuff up and printing it. Oh, and how is Rafa an idiot? He has won the FA Cup, UEFA Cup, Champions League and La Liga (and more) in his career. He is hardly an idiot. Considering you hate Rafa so much, you don't seem to know much about him, he is in his 4th season at Liverpool and the "league cup" and "carling cup" are the same thing.

[Tel]

interesting article i read in one of the sunday papers about how liverpool don't deserve Steven Gerrard. it really does highlight how liverpool haven't really progressed over the last 4 years or so. 4 Years ago they had 3 world class players, Carragher, Gerrard & Owen. Gerrard was promised that the club woud invest in two world class wingers in order to make them a force in the Premier League.

Here we are in 2008 and Liverpool had 3 world class players, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres. Liverpool are still looking for two world glass wingers. One can only wonder what situation Liverpool would be in had Gerrard signed for Chelsea on that June afternoon.

If you look at Liverpool's last 8 seasons the stats indicate they are a long away from even competiting for the league title.

2000 - 24 Points behind the Champions

2001 - 11 Points behind the Champions

2002 - 7 Points behind the Champions

2003 - 19 Points behind the Champions

2004 - 30 Points behind the Champions

2005 - 37 Points behind the Champions

2006 - 14 Points behind the Champions

2007 - 21 Points behind the Champions

2008 - 17 Points behind the leaders already.

Benitez needs to understand that the premier league is your bread and butter, what happens in Europe is a bonus. Big Sam stated had he not won the champions league in 2005 he would have been out of a job by now, can anyone really dispute this comment? A classic example i remember from this season where Benitez has put the champions league before the premiership was a game against Everton at Goodison Park. Game is evenly balanced at 1-1. Everton down to 10 men and Benitez decides to take Gerrard off just as he started to influence the game. This can be disputed all day long but the reason behind Gerrard coming off surely must have been the fact they were due to play Besitkas 4 days later and that was a must win game due to the fact they only picked up 1 point out of the first two games.

Until Benitez understands that the Premier league is Liverpool's first target they will never be able to progress forward.

No doubt this post will produce an interesting reply from some members, so happy days lol :)

[Martyn]

interesting article i read in one of the sunday papers about how liverpool don't deserve Steven Gerrard. it really does highlight how liverpool haven't really progressed over the last 4 years or so. 4 Years ago they had 3 world class players, Carragher, Gerrard & Owen. Gerrard was promised that the club woud invest in two world class wingers in order to make them a force in the Premier League.

Here we are in 2008 and Liverpool had 3 world class players, Carragher, Gerrard & Torres. Liverpool are still looking for two world glass wingers. One can only wonder what situation Liverpool would be in had Gerrard signed for Chelsea on that June afternoon.

If you look at Liverpool's last 8 seasons the stats indicate they are a long away from even competiting for the league title.

2000 - 24 Points behind the Champions

2001 - 11 Points behind the Champions

2002 - 7 Points behind the Champions

2003 - 19 Points behind the Champions

2004 - 30 Points behind the Champions

2005 - 37 Points behind the Champions

2006 - 14 Points behind the Champions

2007 - 21 Points behind the Champions

2008 - 17 Points behind the leaders already.

Benitez needs to understand that the premier league is your bread and butter, what happens in Europe is a bonus. Big Sam stated had he not won the champions league in 2005 he would have been out of a job by now, can anyone really dispute this comment? A classic example i remember from this season where Benitez has put the champions league before the premiership was a game against Everton at Goodison Park. Game is evenly balanced at 1-1. Everton down to 10 men and Benitez decides to take Gerrard off just as he started to influence the game. This can be disputed all day long but the reason behind Gerrard coming off surely must have been the fact they were due to play Besitkas 4 days later and that was a must win game due to the fact they only picked up 1 point out of the first two games.

Until Benitez understands that the Premier league is Liverpool's first target they will never be able to progress forward.

No doubt this post will produce an interesting reply from some members, so happy days lol :)

"Word class" is completely subjective anyway.

You state Gerrard, Carragher and Torres are our only world class players. If you look at the quality in the squad now compared to how Houllier left it, we are much better off now.

Our core squad now is: Reina, Agger, Carragher, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas, Babel, Gerrard, Torres,

The only players who we had of that quality under Houllier where: Carragher (should not really be listed, he has only really developed under Rafa), Gerrard and Owen (who messed us around left cheaply), Hyypia (who is now past it), Kewell (now a cripple) and perhaps Danny Murphy!

In my eyes we are easily better off now under Rafa than under Houllier. Rafa has also COMPLETELY revamped our youth system, and the evidence is showing up already seeing as we have won the FA Youth Cup the last two years in a row, and the last time we won the FA Youth Cup before that our side CONTAINED the likes of Carragher and Owen!

2005 - 37 Points behind the Champions

2006 - 14 Points behind the Champions

2007 - 21 Points behind the Champions

This is how we have faired since Rafa took charge, but what you have to remember is in each of our full seasons under Rafa we have been in a major final (two CL finals and one FA Cup). So, last season for instance our form suffered because of our success elsewhere. We played reserve sides against the likes Charlton, Fulham and Portsmouth just in the build up to the Champions League final (and got 1 point out of 9 there). This season is a write off anyway because of all the off the field trouble, no one can deny our form has suffered tremendously since then. Hopefully, this summer all the ownership/managerial situation can be sorted out and we can concentrate SOLEY on football instead of (for example) staging a protest after every match against the people who own our beautiful club.

Oh, and your point about the derby and taking Gerrard off is pointless in my eyes, seeing as Lucas (who came on for Gerrard) won us the penalty that got us the three points anyway.

Anyway, I really cannot be bothered wasting more of my life debating the issue when I should be doing Uni work :p

[Tel]

ahhh, just a reminder of why i hate debating football with liverpool fans lol. im glad i made a ?20 bet that Arsenal would finish higher than Liverpool. Liverpool will not win the premier league for atleast 3-4 seasons yet, thats how far off they really are.

[Martyn]

ahhh, just a reminder of why i hate debating football with liverpool fans lol. im glad i made a ?20 bet that Arsenal would finish higher than Liverpool. Liverpool will not win the premier league for atleast 3-4 seasons yet, thats how far off they really are.

Yep, we are a passionate lot:pp

[rajputwarrior]

To be fair mate, I take most things you say with a pinch of salt these days. I remember you liked Rafa, hated him, liked him again and now you are back to hating him.

There is no guess work regarding the players that play in the matches. According to Rafa and his assistants (it is a shame Pako left, because he was one of the best number two's you could get), Rafa picks his team/tactics/formation judging on how the players train in training and the opposition in question (as in their strengths/weaknesses etc). By the way, people moan and moan about Liverpool rotating, but Arsenal, Man Utd and Chelsea have this season rotated MORE (FACT!) than Liverpool.

There is a media consipiracy to get Benitez out of his job in the UK at the moment, anyone who actually lives here can see that, it is the same as what happened to Martin Jol and Spurs. The press will not stop until Benitez is out of his job, and thankfully Rafa is taking action against News Of The World (The Sunday S*n) for making stuff up and printing it. Oh, and how is Rafa an idiot? He has won the FA Cup, UEFA Cup, Champions League and La Liga (and more) in his career. He is hardly an idiot. Considering you hate Rafa so much, you don't seem to know much about him, he is in his 4th season at Liverpool and the "league cup" and "carling cup" are the same thing.

most of the things he has won hasn't been with the reds though, i could care less what he did with vallencia, that doesn't mean anything when he is underperforming in england.

Maybe the others do rotate more (which is completely doubt and do not beleive) but you don't ever see sir alex not starting ronaldo, rooney, giggs or anyone of their top guys. I bet if stevie g was in man u, he would play EVERY GAME no matter what, unlike what happens under rafa. It has to stop, i am not arguing that he doesn't have a good track record, it's just this rotating crap needs to stop.

Benitez needs to understand that the premier league is your bread and butter, what happens in Europe is a bonus. Big Sam stated had he not won the champions league in 2005 he would have been out of a job by now, can anyone really dispute this comment? A classic example i remember from this season where Benitez has put the champions league before the premiership was a game against Everton at Goodison Park. Game is evenly balanced at 1-1. Everton down to 10 men and Benitez decides to take Gerrard off just as he started to influence the game. This can be disputed all day long but the reason behind Gerrard coming off surely must have been the fact they were due to play Besitkas 4 days later and that was a must win game due to the fact they only picked up 1 point out of the first two games.

yup, as cool as it is doing well in europe, england should be your number one priority and i can't see that ever beeing true while rafa is there.

You state Gerrard, Carragher and Torres are our only world class players. If you look at the quality in the squad now compared to how Houllier left it, we are much better off now.

Our core squad now is: Reina, Agger, Carragher, Skrtel, Mascherano, Alonso, Lucas, Babel, Gerrard, Torres,

you make a good point about our core, but i still think we should be doing better. Babbel is my eyes is a young henri, he is going to be crazy, Lucas i think still has a lot of work and i have yet to see why they picked up benayoun... he's useless. Also i would argue crouch should be there cause i love him :)

ahhh, just a reminder of why i hate debating football with liverpool fans lol. im glad i made a ?20 bet that Arsenal would finish higher than Liverpool. Liverpool will not win the premier league for atleast 3-4 seasons yet, thats how far off they really are.

Yep, we are a passionate lot:pp

+1 at the end of the day of me and martyn debating, if i ever see the guy i am buying him a beer cause we love the same team (i am coming to a game one day...)

[Martyn]

+1 at the end of the day of me and martyn debating, if i ever see the guy i am buying him a beer cause we love the same team (i am coming to a game one day...)

Yeah, I love a good football debate and sometimes get drawn into it to much. It is just the passion I have for Liverpool FC I guess! If you are ever in Liverpool mate, for a game or anything I'll buy you a bevvie as well :)

I still think that if we sort out the ownership problems in the summer, bring in a few more players (we need someone like Pandev/Aguero/Diego), and we have a bit of luck we will be sitting pretty next season in the league. Just my thoughts.

[Crazysah]

Yes. You and us (Arsenal) can have a two horse race while Man Utd and Chelsea have a two horse race for third place!

[rajputwarrior]

so gerrard thinks we suck(paraphrased) and rafa more or less agrees... that's embrassing.

[Martyn]

so gerrard thinks we suck(paraphrased) and rafa more or less agrees... that's embrassing.

Well they are right, we should be doing better at the moment. But we can more or less write this season off, a good run in the Champions League and securing 4th place would be good for us (at the moment).

[Rappy Veteran]

We got mullered but it was pleasing to see Lampard sent off.

[Martyn]

4-0. Oh dear!

[Rappy Veteran]

4-0. Oh dear!

Yeah but we never expect against Chelsea and other big teams we just go out there hoping to secure a point its a good thing really high expectations leads to disappointment.

[Martyn]

Yeah but we never expect against Chelsea and other big teams we just go out there hoping to secure a point its a good thing really high expectations leads to disappointment.

I would never say it is a good thing losing 4-0...!

Maybe that is just me though ;)

[Rappy Veteran]

I would never say it is a good thing losing 4-0...!

Maybe that is just me though ;)

Yeah of course a 4-0 loss is bad on paper but in reality it could be alot worse like 8-0 or 7-2 or something so 4-0 is alright especially against chelsea if I were a Spurs fan on the other hand after winning the Carling Cup last week only to get hammered 4-1 by a relegation battler I would be miffed.

[rajputwarrior]

please win tomorrow liverpool (well it's already tomorrow there for you) PLEASE!!!!

[Martyn]

please win tomorrow liverpool (well it's already tomorrow there for you) PLEASE!!!!

3-1. 3 points. Job done.

Now for West Ham on Wednesday.

[Rappy Veteran]

3-1. 3 points. Job done.

Now for West Ham on Wednesday.

In which you will thrash us 4-0 :p

[rajputwarrior]

In which you will thrash us 4-0 :p

you never know... we like to lose to some of the worst teams...

good victory today!

[Rappy Veteran]

you never know... we like to lose to some of the worst teams...

good victory today!

Thanks ;)

[rajputwarrior]

Thanks ;)

was hoping you would notice what i said ;)

[Mike]

In which you will thrash us 4-0 :p

if bolton could actually score, liverpool could have found themselves 2-0 within the first 10 minutes so maybe they won't beat you that easily :p

[Martyn]

you never know... we like to lose to some of the worst teams...

good victory today!

:laugh:!!

[Rappy Veteran]

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks is unwilling to sell his share in the club to Dubai International Capital and aims to buy out partner George Gillett.

DIC have tabled a formal ?400m bid to take control from the American duo.

BBC sports editor Mihir Bose told BBC 5 Live: "Hicks has been willing to have DIC as a minority stakeholder. He's not willing to sell a controlling interest.

"Tom Hicks is working on a plan where he would buy out his partner George Gillett, who is minded to sell to DIC."

Hicks has not formally rejected DIC's offer, but is still unwilling to sell out.

The Government-run Dubai investment fund has been in talks with the Americans, but a source close to Hicks told the Press Association he is refusing to sell his 50% share in the club to DIC.

DIC has insisted there is no deadline on its bid to buy out the Americans.

BBC 5 Live understands Gillett is willing to sell, but Hicks also has to agree to sell for any deal to go through.

DIC has denied the deadline for a decision is by the end of Tuesday.

Bose added: "Gillett and Hicks have an informal understanding that one won't sell without the other and DIC has never been interested in being a minority stakeholder, and would not be interested in getting into bed with Hicks with a 50-50 partnership."

He went on: "There is a bit more to go but some conclusion will be reached - either Hicks will raise the money to buy out Gillett and take total control, or there will be a sale of the club. I suspect it will be another couple of months at least before it is resolved."

DIC confirmed on Tuesday it had been in talks with American duo Hicks and Gillett about purchasing a stake in the Anfield club.

"It's no secret that we have been in discussions with the current owners," said DIC chief executive Sameer al-Ansari.

"It's not easy because (they) are in dreamland about valuations."

Al-Ansari later clarified that one of the club's owners "had come out of dreamland", without giving further details.

Bose said: "The fact that DIC have gone so public on this means they know that the offer is not being accepted and they are trying to use fan pressure, like the Americans did last year."

Texan billionaire Hicks said last month he was not planning to sell a stake in Liverpool, denying media speculation he was in talks with DIC over a sale.

He also revealed that Gillett could not sell his stake in the Premier League club without his approval.

However, both Hicks and Gillett have become increasingly unpopular among Reds fans, drawing criticism for their treatment of manager Rafael Benitez and their financial management of the club.

That has given fresh hope to DIC, who were considering buying Liverpool before the Americans joined forces to complete their own takeover in February 2007.

Hicks said in January he had talked to DIC "once" about a 10-15% stake, but DIC said the valuation was too high.

DIC are thought to want a controlling stake at Anfield, meaning they would need to convince Hicks to relinquish part of his 50% of the club as well as buying out Gillett.

Another obstacle is the refinancing package announced on 25 January that has loaded ?105m of debt on to the club.

Of that, ?60m is earmarked to kick-start the new stadium development at Stanley Park plus ?45m for future player transfers and to meet the club's working capital needs.

DIC, which manages about ?6.5bn of assets, is owned by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum, the ruler of Dubai.

Al-Ansari was the man behind the takeover bid a year ago and looked to have succeeded until then Liverpool owner David Moores suddenly opted to sell to the Americans.

"It took me two weeks to get over that," said al-Ansari, who is a Liverpool fan. "But it didn't dent my passion - I still go to every match when I'm here."

A question for Liverpool fans is would you rather have DIC or Hicks?

[rajputwarrior]

why can't hicks just go away and Gillette take over?