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F1 World Championship 2008 Thread


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Nicholas-c    37
Ferrari are gaining about 2 tenths with their system. Not worth it, when compared to the number of points lost in the races to it's failings and the increased danger for the mechanics.

tbh i wouldn't be surprised if we saw the return of lollipop man for Ferrari within next few races :)

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bayrider    1
his fault he was released early? no, his fault he didnt notice? yes.

It's not Massa's job to observe what's going on around him in the pit stop. His focus is on driving the car. It's his pit crew's job to tell him when it's safe to go. It's what they're paid to do, and they told him it was safe to go so he did as he was instructed. Tell me how much you are supposed to "notice" in 9 seconds with a helmet on and 20 people surrounding you doing 20 different things. That's why there are paid professionals to notice these things for him.

Bit of a bummer for Massa, but the systems needs to be overhauled to remove the humans as much as possible. Sensors to detect when the wheels are fully on and no fueling rig attached which disable the clutch or use of accelerator, then the driver can take off.

It they have to do is work out how to release cars in the pits so they don't hit anyone.

As far as I know, and according to the broadcast crew I watch, Ferrari's lighting system is all sensorized. The green light comes on when the fuel nozzle is removed from the tank. That's the whole point of the system.

If the lights came on manually, then what's the point of having the system? They could just use the lollipop.

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Fourjays    106

Watching what the pit crew are doing as a judgement of when to go is something they are told not to do. Raikkonen did it at Valencia - the light never went green, he reacted to the fuel men giving the fuel line a pull... except it didn't come out. If he'd been watching the lights, he'd have been ok, although a lollipop would have been better (can't drive if you can't see).

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ahmz    28

The fueler has a button which he presses and then light goes green. Another person has an override button incase another car is coming down the pitlane so that he can keep it red until it's clear to go out. I have no idea what happened at Massa's stop, the fueler wasn't even trying to get the hose out when the light went green. Lollipop man is the way to go, you'll stop once that lollipop hits the front of your car and possibly slides over your helmet.

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Mike    89
It's not Massa's job to observe what's going on around him in the pit stop. His focus is on driving the car. It's his pit crew's job to tell him when it's safe to go. It's what they're paid to do, and they told him it was safe to go so he did as he was instructed. Tell me how much you are supposed to "notice" in 9 seconds with a helmet on and 20 people surrounding you doing 20 different things. That's why there are paid professionals to notice these things for him.

he would have definately felt it and i'm pretty sure he'd check his mirrors when pulling out, how else did he know to avoid sutil *again*? There have been instances where the lollipop has gone up, driver gone to pull away and the refueller hasnt moved yet, and those drivers have stopped before the lollipop has gone down.

As far as I know, and according to the broadcast crew I watch, Ferrari's lighting system is all sensorized. The green light comes on when the fuel nozzle is removed from the tank. That's the whole point of the system.

If the lights came on manually, then what's the point of having the system? They could just use the lollipop.

As Ahmz055 said, there is a button that the refueller has to press before it goes green. He can feel it is out so presses the button as it comes out and the driver goes. This removes the time it takes for the lollipop guy to realise the refuelling rig is completely out and to move the lollipop out of the way. It also removes the chance of the lollipop guy lifting it when the refueller fails to pull the rig out, or if the driver reacts to a slight movement by the lollipop guy.

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Damo R.    29,658
Formula One teams are considering introducing a US$1 million prize for the fastest car on Fridays in order to liven up grand prix race weekends.

The newly formed Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) will have further discussion at the upcoming races in Japan and China in the hope of bringing in a new competition for Fridays.

"At the moment we formulated a Friday testing format, but in reality no one is doing the normal disciplined testing. We are preparing for the race," McLaren chief executive Martin Whitmarsh was quoted as saying in Autosport magazine.

"So we say, is this good value? Does it help the show? Or do you perhaps do something where you say, let's cut it down to 45 minutes only, maybe you give a completely different specification of tires, a really hard tire, and you create a mini-competition where everyone tries to set the fastest time and you give a million dollars to the winning driver?"

Currently the only F1 action on tracks on Fridays is two practice sessions in which teams tweak the set-ups and tire choices for Saturday's qualifying and Sunday's race.

It is of more interest to team engineers than spectators and receives almost no television coverage.

"It means there would be something to write about and it introduces the weekend," Whitmarsh said. "It is separate from the race. So there are all those sort of ideas about.

"The good thing is that people now realize that we do have to do something and have quite a creative open discussion. And I hope over Japan and Shanghai that we will reach some conclusions.

"We then have to make recommendations to FOTA and that has to then go through the FIA, but hopefully we can do that."

FOTA was formed only in July, representing all 10 teams. It is designed to provide a united voice to the FIA, the sport's governing body, about the future of F1.

[Source]

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Lewism    43
FIA DROPS CANADIAN GP FROM 2009 SCHEDULE

The Canadian Grand Prix has been dropped from the 2009 Formual One calendar.

Following a meeting of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris, France on Tuesday, the FIA announced an 18 race schedule which did not include the popular Montreal event.

Instead, the Turkish Grand Prix has been moved from its August date to June in order to maintain the summer break which F1 teams have enjoyed the past few years.

The announcement caught Canadian Grand Prix officials by surprise.

"The executives of the Grand Prix of Canada have learned via the media of the omission of the Grand Prix of Canada from the F1 Championship 2009 calendar. Therefore, the organization will issue no comment until having spoken to Formula One Management (FOM) and the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA)," read the short statement.

With the U.S. Grand Prix still in limbo, the loss of the Canadian race marks the first time in almost five decades that there will not be a North American Formula One stop.

This marks the first time since 1987 that a Formula One race will not be staged in Canada. That was due to a sponsorship conflict between breweries Labatt and Molson. Financial issues also forced the 1975 race to be left off the calendar.

In 2004, FIA removed the Canadian race from the schedule due to anti-tobacco legislation. However, race officials were able to raise enough money to keep the race on the calendar.

In 2005, the Canadian Grand Prix was the third most watched sporting event in the world behind only Super Bowl XXXIX between New England and Philadelphia and the UEFA Champions League final featuring Liverpool and AC Milan.

2009 Formula One calendar as agreed to by the World Motor Sport Council:

Australia 29 March

Malaysia 5 April

Bahrain 19 April

Spain 10 May

Monaco 24 May

Turkey 7 June

Great Britain 21 June

France 28 June

Germany 12 July

Hungary 26 July

Europe (Valencia) 23 August

Belgium 30 August

Italy 13 September

Singapore 27 September

Japan 11 October

China 18 October

Brazil 1 November

Abu Dhabi 15 November

http://tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=251923...ing-formula_one

It's sad to see Montreal go :(

Eccleston wants too much money and the Montreal organization doesn't want to pay more.

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Fourjays    106

Montreal is the second best track IMO. 99.9% of fan comments I have read are equally disappointed, yet, as usual, neither the FIA or Ecclestone give a damn. They do what gives them the most money.

Unfortunately the sport is being ruined by money. It has never been and never will be a cheap sport, but the amount of money now for teams is astronomical, even compared to a few years ago. http://forum.planet-f1.com/index.php?t=msg...mp;start=0& This thread on Planet-F1 is an interesting read. If costs like that continue, Williams will be gone from the grid in a couple of years. :/ Even McLaren would be struggling.

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brentaal    404

Fuji Qualifying results

post-88362-1223706041_thumb.png

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Mike    89

i'd like to know where kimi came from for Q3, he was only 7th quickest out of the Q1/Q2 times and wasn't too far from the cut-off point in Q2 (in terms of time)

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PENGUINwithM4A1    0

Well the race will be very interesting! Cant wait! So glad for ITV Catch up :D

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Crazysah    7

Seems both the Torro Rosso's made it into the top-10 and none of the Red Bull's! I am hoping for Kubica win with Massa second and Hamilton 8th!

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sundayx    127

Anyone have the race result and times in Japan?

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.mcman    1
Anyone have the race result and times in Japan?

Pos. Driver Team Time

1 F. Alonso Renault 1:30:21.892

2 R. Kubica BMW + 5.200

3 K. R?ikk?nen Ferrari + 6.400

4 N. Piquet jr. Renault + 20.500

5 J. Trulli Toyota + 23.700

6 S. Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso + 34.000

7 S. Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso + 39.200

8 F. Massa Ferrari + 46.100

9 M. Webber Red Bull + 50.800

10 N. Heidfeld BMW + 54.100

11 N. Rosberg Williams + 1:02.000

12 L. Hamilton McLaren + 1:18.900

13 R. Barrichello Honda + 1 laps

14 J. Button Honda + 1 laps

15 K. Nakajima Williams + 1 laps

Did not finish

16 G. Fisichella Force India F1 + 46 laps

17 H. Kovalainen McLaren + 51 laps

18 A. Sutil Force India F1 + 58 laps

19 T. Glock Toyota + 60 laps

20 D. Coulthard Red Bull + 67 laps

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LJ50    2

Another race, another shocking stewards decision. Bourdais given 25 second penalty, promoting Massa to 7th.

Staggering decision IMO. Never one to buy into conspiracy theories, but this season has been characterised by come baffling stewards decisions in Ferrari's favour and this adds another to the list. Bourdais came out of the pits and did everything possible (including mounting the kerb) to avoid Massa who seemed intent on driving into him. Yet it's Bourdais who's been punished?

Hamilton made a stupid, impetuous error again today, but his punishment has been magnified now.

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Mike    89
Another race, another shocking stewards decision. Bourdais given 25 second penalty, promoting Massa to 7th.

Staggering decision IMO. Never one to buy into conspiracy theories, but this season has been characterised by come baffling stewards decisions in Ferrari's favour and this adds another to the list. Bourdais came out of the pits and did everything possible (including mounting the kerb) to avoid Massa who seemed intent on driving into him. Yet it's Bourdais who's been punished?

Hamilton made a stupid, impetuous error again today, but his punishment has been magnified now.

agreed, lewis messed up the breaking into turn 1 as do many drivers, excluding the front runners there was a toyota and a red bull that had to run wide and off the track at the start.

as for massa's penalty, that was fair, he braked late went off the racing line completely (although he says it was only slightly off), then decided to drive at a poor angle to the corner and decided to leave the track (yes all 4 wheels were off, not 2 as massa claims)

as for bourdais' penalty, what was it for? he came out the pits took the normal pit exiting line to the corner, massa tried to go around him and messed it up and hit bourdais, no penalty is needed at all for either one

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CrashG    439

I don't think Bourdais should have gotten any sort of penalty. He came out of the pits, held his inside line, both he and Massa were racing for position. Massa ran into him causing Massa to spin and lose some time, Bourdais kept going. Massa caused the incident and suffered for his mistake by spinning, case closed.

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Crompee    5

Yeah, the Stewards are just ruining F1 at the moment with the Ferrari Favoritism; Its just stupid some of the decisions they've been making.

I think around 30% (Prob more like 50-70%) of races, someone will always go off on the first corner due to a mistake.. yet this is the first time anyones ever got a penalty for it? Surprising its a decision which favors ferrari and goes against there rivals.. I guess they only did it as they clearly needed to give Massa a drive-through penalty and found a way to give Hamilton one as well.

Then Bourdais? He did absolutly nothing wrong? He was on the inside, on the racing line, fighting for the position (so not being laped)? There was absolutly no-where else for him to go, i would love to know what the stewards wanted him to do (stop? and give the position to mass? lol).

I've kind of tuned out of F1 at the moment, it got to the stage where im no longer watching it to view the racing but to how the Stewards are going to give Ferrari the win.

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Antaris    83

Have you heard the news? Hammilton can't race in the next season because of a steward's inquiry to a dirty look he gave Massa in the lunch room...

Sad state of F1 at the moment, what I dont get though, is if SO many people can see something wrong with this blatant Ferrari love, and anti-Hammilton decisions, why is nothing being done about it.

How much are the Stewards, Jordan and now Alonso getting paid by Ferrari to make sure he doesn't win.

What is the deal anyway, is it because he's black? english? or just not Ferrari?

Tos*ers!

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Mike    89

ugh don't bring race into it, it isn't anti-anyone really, it is just pro-ferrari.

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bayrider    1

LOL how the hell does Bourdais get penalized for having Massa try to run him off the road? What a friggen joke.

When the notification popped up that the incident between Massa & Bourdais would be investigated after the race, the announcers mentioned that the only possible penalty that can come from a post-race decision is a 10 spot penalty in the following race if the announcement is made with more than 5 laps to go.

I believe there was about 10 laps to go in the race, so how does the FIA bend the rules once again?

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Fourjays    106

I think now it is obvious that it is fixed and scripted by the stewards in order to ensure it goes down to the last race. :( Now Kubica is in the title hunt, and Massa and Hamilton are close. I won't be surprised if they find some sort of penalties for Hamilton and Massa at China, with Kubica winning the race, to ensure the three are on near equal points for Brazil.

Kubica said himself that if you look at the past few years, there has been loads of ridiculous penalties in the last few races to keep Ferrari in the title fight. :hmmm:

So here's hoping to Ferrari failing to get KERS working and getting mugged by a Honda or Toyota down every straight next year. :shiftyninja:

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Mike    89

i saw a link to an f1 site that showed what would have happened with more sane penalties and it the points ended up around 93-73 in favour of hamilton.

2 major talking points with the penalties this season:

1. Charlie Whiting (basically the race chief) gives an opinion / tells the drivers what to do and the stewards penalise for the opposite happening. He said the lewis/kimi incident at Spa was fine. He also told drivers in Japan/Singapore that pit exiting cars have the right of way and the others need to drive around them. So Massa fails to drive around Bourdais who was doing as instructed and *racing* and he gets a penalty because Massa hit him.

2. There have been quite a few penalties where the incidences have been very similar to other incidents this season that have had different outcomes, and whenever ferrari have penalised they are either scoring no points anyway (singapore), or mclaren get penalised too (japan).

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CrashG    439
Have you heard the news? Hammilton can't race in the next season because of a steward's inquiry to a dirty look he gave Massa in the lunch room...

Do you have a source for this?

Yes I'm a Ferrari fan, yes I would like Massa to win the Drivers Championship... but not like this. Hamilton and the team have made very few mistakes this season and if Ferrari can't compete fairly with that, they don't deserve to win either Championship.

The "politics" off-track are ruining the sport.

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bayrider    1

Why the hell do we need the FIA anyways? Let's just scrap them and let the people involved make the decisions, not a bunch of fat cats in Paris

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