Sony calls out Xbox and Wii as flea market peddlers

[Belazor]

No, their situation is nothing like MS's

And you don't think that if MS includes better hardware and all bells and whistles in their Xbox 720 or whatever that it will cost more to produce than the 360 did at launch?

I find your lack of proper rebuttal quite weak, sir :p

[Ricardo Gil]

And you don't think that if MS includes better hardware and all bells and whistles in their Xbox 720 or whatever that it will cost more to produce than the 360 did at launch?

I find your lack of proper rebuttal quite weak, sir :p

The difference is that while Sony relied on the PS2 to fund the PS3's expensive hardware, they still sold it for a very steep price. I think DM's idea was that MS can include a few extras next round while maintaining a reasonable price at launch.

[Ironman273]

The difference is that while Sony relied on the PS2 to fund the PS3's expensive hardware, they still sold it for a very steep price. I think DM's idea was that MS can include a few extras next round while maintaining a reasonable price at launch.

...and use technology that has been proven, not a format to push their own agenda and a chip that was the Achilles' heel for programmers.

[Belazor]

The difference is that while Sony relied on the PS2 to fund the PS3's expensive hardware, they still sold it for a very steep price. I think DM's idea was that MS can include a few extras next round while maintaining a reasonable price at launch.

So what, if they're just re-launching the 360 with all peripherals attached, would people buy? No, of course not. A new console would mean better hardware. Better hardware would mean increased cost. And if they sold it at a too reasonable price, they would bleed all the 360's (still minute) profits in a heartbeat (provided people would actually buy the 720 so soon after the 360).

...and use technology that has been proven, not a format to push their own agenda and a chip that was the Achilles' heel for programmers.

See newer hardware point above.

If they didn't include a Blu-Ray player in their next release, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Or perhaps they would be so stubborn that we'd eventually see 10 disc games? That'd be just lol.

[Ricardo Gil]

So what, if they're just re-launching the 360 with all peripherals attached, would people buy? No, of course not. A new console would mean better hardware. Better hardware would mean increased cost. And if they sold it at a too reasonable price, they would bleed all the 360's (still minute) profits in a heartbeat (provided people would actually buy the 720 so soon after the 360).

Now that's just you making stuff up.

Better hardware doesn't mean increased cost, because "better" is relative to the old hardware, launched years ago. The point you missed is that the 360 could have launched with wifi and a few other extras built-in, but for around $500. With profits made from the 360, they can put those extras in at no cost to the end user, resulting in an attractively priced console. And just so I don't get misunderstood, I'm just saying they can, I'm in no way saying they'll do this, or are even considering it.

If they didn't include a Blu-Ray player in their next release, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Or perhaps they would be so stubborn that we'd eventually see 10 disc games? That'd be just lol.

I'm more inclined to believe the next XBox will include an HD-DVD drive, it's a proved format and would provide for less piracy. Blu-ray could come as an external accessory or not at all, since they're pushing digital distribution.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I'm more inclined to believe the next XBox will include an HD-DVD drive, it's a proved format and would provide for less piracy. Blu-ray could come as an external accessory or not at all, since they're pushing digital distribution.

That would be absolute fail.

HD-DVD isn't made any more, and it would mean you couldn't watch any of your physical HD movies on the next 360. It's not a proved format, it's a dead format.

There would be no pluses what so ever to MS including an HD-DVD drive in the next xbox. If anything costs would be higher as HD-DVD discs (and readers) would need to be made just for the xbox 360, nothing else uses them. By then Blu Ray drives/discs will be incredibly cheap compared to when they launched.

It's ether going to be proprietary, or Blu Ray.

[Brad.]

That would be absolute fail.

HD-DVD isn't made any more, and it would mean you couldn't watch any of your physical HD movies on the next 360. It's not a proved format, it's a dead format.

There would be no pluses what so ever to MS including an HD-DVD drive in the next xbox. If anything costs would be higher as HD-DVD discs (and readers) would need to be made just for the xbox 360, nothing else uses them. By then Blu Ray drives/discs will be incredibly cheap compared to when they launched.

It's ether going to be proprietary, or Blu Ray.

Unless MS start producing the drives themselves and puts the games on HD-DVD discs.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Why would they do that?

Again, it would ramp up manufacturing costs.

Some of you guys are going bananas about manufacturing costs through adding wireless, yet somehow reviving a dead format, then having to manufacture the readers and discs yourself is a good option?

[kyro]

I really want MS to put HD DVD Only, common MS you can do it , you also released Vista and going to Sell Windows 7 to Vista users too , so yea, you can do this too :) :yes:

[Brad.]

Why would they do that?

Again, it would ramp up manufacturing costs.

Some of you guys are going bananas about manufacturing costs through adding wireless, yet somehow reviving a dead format, then having to manufacture the readers and discs yourself is a good option?

I wasn't suggesting they would, I just stated that it's an option if they decided to.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I wasn't suggesting they would, I just stated that it's an option if they decided to.

Fair enough, my bad, but they still ain't going to do it :p

It would be one of the biggest mistakes ever.

Unless there is a landfill of say 60-80 million HD-DVD players dumped somewhere ;)

[Sethos]

Could work as a gaming format, just like Blu-ray. You say proprietary? Why not use an already existing format then. Just because it's a failed MOVIE format, doesn't mean it's a failed gaming format.

At least they won't try to shove a format down our throat to aid their own agenda ...

I do agree it probably won't happen but there are other sides to the coin than "zOMG HD MOVIEZZZ", some of us use our consoles as a gaming console, not a media center.

[FlibbyFlobby]

I'm more inclined to believe the next XBox will include an HD-DVD drive, it's a proved format and would provide for less piracy. Blu-ray could come as an external accessory or not at all, since they're pushing digital distribution.

The next Xbox won't use HD-DVD, it just won't happen. It would totally take away from the media centre aspect of the console if can't even play the current standard for HD movies. By that point plenty of people will probably own a Blu-Ray player and a couple of movies too. Sure a console is for gaming, but plenty of people watch movies on them too, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time with Netflix right?

The other choice I see is they could build a hybrid drive to read both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs, but why incur those manufacturing costs when there is already a defined standard? I expect the next Xbox will use Blu-Ray, and Microsoft will probably be singing it's praises too tbh.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Could work as a gaming format, just like Blu-ray. You say proprietary? Why not use an already existing format then. Just because it's a failed MOVIE format, doesn't mean it's a failed gaming format.

At least they won't try to shove a format down our throat to aid their own agenda ...

I do agree it probably won't happen but there are other sides to the coin than "zOMG HD MOVIEZZZ", some of us use our consoles as a gaming console, not a media center.

Using the existing format over a new proprietary format would be a marketing and image nightmare - You'd have the media everywhere saying "MS adopts failed format". You can't even comprehend how much bad PR MS would get for reviving HD-DVD just for the next xbox.

There's nothing you can really say about a new format with no history (if they went proprietary).

And some people like using consoles to play movies, it's been that way for ages. The Wii even gets stick for not playing back DVDs, yet people probably have 100 DVD players in their houses. Consoles are primarily under the TV, the place where you're going to watch DVDs/Blu Rays, ect.

When the next consoles come, the HD market will be much larger, it makes perfectly fine sense for MS to use Blu Ray for gaming and movies. Consumers get the ability to play their movie collections, and play games.

The only people who'll be spazzing up against that are those that somehow get butthurt because Blu Ray is heavily imaged with Sony. And quite frankly that's sad, Blu Ray is the format of HD movies, just accept that and not go crazy if MS adopt it. It's perfectly sensible for them to do so.

It would just be two companies sharing tech, like DVD was in the PS2/Xbox - Fanboy logic does not stand in this equation, it would merely be business decisions and deciding what's best for your consumer base which includes people playing games/people using media features/ect.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Audioboxer

[Belazor]

Now that's just you making stuff up.

Better hardware doesn't mean increased cost, because "better" is relative to the old hardware, launched years ago. The point you missed is that the 360 could have launched with wifi and a few other extras built-in, but for around $500. With profits made from the 360, they can put those extras in at no cost to the end user, resulting in an attractively priced console. And just so I don't get misunderstood, I'm just saying they can, I'm in no way saying they'll do this, or are even considering it.

If they were making a console in 2010, they wouldn't use 2007 hardware just because it's probably cheap to make, would they? They would use 2010 hardware to really punch a hole in the PS3's graphics.

We can speculate about what they could do all day long that would still produce marginally better graphics for a reduced manufac cost, but I'm trying to be realistic in what a company would do if they're launching a console.

Also: Well yes, they could make an "Ultimate" version of the console later during this generation that will cost as much as a PS3 costs now.

Could work as a gaming format, just like Blu-ray. You say proprietary? Why not use an already existing format then. Just because it's a failed MOVIE format, doesn't mean it's a failed gaming format.

Do you seriously believe that a proprietary format like that would work for a console that partially markets itself as a media center?

At least they won't try to shove a format down our throat to aid their own agenda ...

Which won them the war. Seems like a smart move in my book. And besides, you speak as if having two formats gained you anything as a consumer.

I do agree it probably won't happen but there are other sides to the coin than "zOMG HD MOVIEZZZ", some of us use our consoles as a gaming console, not a media center.

And some of us use our consoles as both.

I find it amusing that the console that markets itself as a gaming console is the best media center, and the console that markets itself as both is also mediocre at both.

[Sethos]

Using the existing format over a new proprietary format would be a marketing and image nightmare - You'd have the media everywhere saying "MS adopts failed format".

There's nothing you can really say about a new format with no history.

And some people like using consoles to play movies, it's been that way for ages. The Wii even gets stick for not playing back DVDs, yet people probably have 100 DVD players in their houses.

When the next consoles come, the HD market will be much larger, it makes perfectly fine sense for MS to use Blu Ray for gaming and movies.

The only people who'll be spazzing up against that are those that somehow get butthurt because Blu Ray is heavily imaged against Sony.

I doubt Microsoft will ever use Blu-ray anyway so they might as well do a step up from DVD, a format which offers the same capacity and features of Blu-ray and STILL plays DVDs. They are probably going to do HD-DVD gaming format and just rename it so it looks like a proprietary format. Would be quite an effective solution really.

And yes, argue that all that but I really doubt Microsoft will go Blu-ray on the "next round".

And some of us use our consoles as both.

I find it amusing that the console that markets itself as a gaming console is the best media center, and the console that markets itself as both is also mediocre at both.

Hope you are talking about the PS3?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I doubt Microsoft will ever use Blu-ray anyway so they might as well do a step up from DVD, a format which offers the same capacity and features of Blu-ray and STILL plays DVDs. They are probably going to do HD-DVD gaming format and just rename it so it looks like a proprietary format. Would be quite an effective solution really.

And yes, argue that all that but I really doubt Microsoft will go Blu-ray on the "next round".

Fair enough if that's your view.

However I can see MS wanting to grab as many consumers attention as possible, and adhere to industry standards of movie playback and games. Consoles aren't just the game playing devices they were in the 90s, they've evolved into all in one entertainment solutions which has broadened their appeal. MS aren't fanboys, they are a business - They'll adopt and make decisions around industry standards, not what segregates them most from competition just to say "we're different".

They ain't going DVD next round, so good luck if they go proprietary, something which nearly every company gets stick for.

[Sethos]

Ah yes, the "NO U" argument.

Somebody living in a dream world :rofl:

Fair enough if that's your view.

However I can see MS wanting to grab as many consumers attention as possible, and adhere to industry standards of movie playback and games. MS aren't fanboys, they are a business - They'll adopt and make decisions around industry standards, not what segregates them most from competition just to say "we're different".

They ain't going DVD next round, so good luck if they go proprietary, something which nearly every company gets stick for.

They are a business, exactly. Like using a dead format could have PR repercussions, so could jumping on the "competitors" format so quickly. I just want them to pick a format which adhere to gaming standards, I don't want mandatory, slow installs and long load times because they are trying to push their own agenda. WHEN Blu-ray is mature enough as a gaming format, then we can talk.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

They are a business, exactly. Like using a dead format could have PR repercussions, so could jumping on the "competitors" format so quickly. I just want them to pick a format which adhere to gaming standards, I don't want mandatory, slow installs and long load times because they are trying to push their own agenda. WHEN Blu-ray is mature enough as a gaming format, then we can talk.

It's not a competitors format any more.

Blu Ray is an industry standard for HD movies, like DVD is for SD movies. PCs, Apple MACs, movie players, ect all are using it, it's not just the PS3 any more. The Playstation pretty much shot forward disc based gaming over cartridge, do you think that meant competitors wouldn't adopt it? Well Nintendo tried not to (stuck with cartridges) and failed for that.

It was only really a competitors format when it itself was essentially a proprietary format - Whilst the war was going on. Once the war ended it became a standard.

And you won't have mandatory installs and slow loading times - That is down to the read speed of the PS3 reader, do you really think 2x readers are going to be put in the next generation of consoles? The speeds of disc based readers always ramp up over time.

Even the PS3 has pretty much abolished mandatory installs nowadays anyway.

Edited January 15, 2009 by Audioboxer

[Belazor]

They are a business, exactly. Like using a dead format could have PR repercussions, so could jumping on the "competitors" format so quickly. I just want them to pick a format which adhere to gaming standards, I don't want mandatory, slow installs and long load times because they are trying to push their own agenda. WHEN Blu-ray is mature enough as a gaming format, then we can talk.

Not all installs are mandatory. I only have 3 games thus far, but Dynasty Warriors 6 did not feature a mandatory install. It was quite optional.

[FlibbyFlobby]

WHEN Blu-ray is mature enough as a gaming format, then we can talk.

So basically when the disc drives get faster read speeds (and cheaper prices to match), which will have happen over time just like it always does with new optical disc formats.

[Sethos]

It's not a competitors format any more.

Blu Ray is an industry standard for HD movies, like DVD is for SD movies. PCs, Apple MACs, movie players, ect all are using it, it's not just the PS3 any more.

It was only really a competitors format when it itself was essentially a proprietary format - Whilst the war was going on. Once the war ended it became a standard.

And you won't have mandatory installs and slow loading times - That is down to the read speed of the PS3 reader, do you really think 2x readers are going to be put in the next generation of consoles? The speeds of disc based readers always ramp up over time.

Even the PS3 has pretty much abolished mandatory installs nowadays anyway.

Still just left the womb of Sony and a product of the current generation console 'war', so it would still have some PR repercussions whether you like it or not.

I have no idea what next generation hardware has to offer, read speeds are still horrible plus the Blu-ray discs are bolstered to hell and back with dummy files - Doubt everything is just magically fixed in a year or two.

And the PS3 didn't do jack about mandatory installs, it's developers who had to adapt and cope with that huge boulder around their angles. I truly do hope the format will be so much more mature next generation.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Still just left the womb of Sony and a product of the current generation console 'war', so it would still have some PR repercussions whether you like it or not.

I have no idea what next generation hardware has to offer, read speeds are still horrible plus the Blu-ray discs are bolstered to hell and back with dummy files - Doubt everything is just magically fixed in a year or two.

And the PS3 didn't do jack about mandatory installs, it's developers who had to adapt and cope with that huge boulder around their angles. I truly do hope the format will be so much more mature next generation.

When the next consoles hit it will be about 4-5 years after the release of the PS3.

No one will care, only those as I said butthurt over formats - That goes for any media that in say 2011/2012 would even care to report the 360 using Blu Ray. By then Blu Ray will be as I said in many many places covering PCs, to Macs, to players under your TV.

No one seems to care about people using a Blu Ray drive with Microsofts Windows operating system... because even the thought of caring about that doesn't cross most peoples minds.

It is an industry standard. People are either ignoring that fact, or they are really that offended by seeing their next Xbox include Blu Ray. Which as I said, is completely sad. It's just a piece of technology/hardware there for anyone to use, it's not a Sony proprietary format any more.

The developers work on the PS3 with the development kits they're given, if the end results are no install, it's no install.

And as we've said, readers get faster, we're talking players that will be generations older than what we have now.

[Eric Veteran]

Why because I'm not another 360 fanboy you want me banned? lol, nice one

No, because you make inane off-topic comments in every thread you post in.

[Sethos]

And with that said, we can conclude guesswork and speculations are always an exciting topic ( Real life calling, have to answer )