F1 World Championship 2009 Thread



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red.

Heh, as someone who doesn't really watch F1 all this random rule changing and result changes are certainly making it more entertaining :p

The FIA make the ICC look competent.

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Axel

This is just ridiculous!

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Axel

It's entirely unclear why Hamilton (and team) decided to let trulli pass again - why the hell would they do this?! It just doesnt make sense.

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Mike
It's entirely unclear why Hamilton (and team) decided to let trulli pass again - why the hell would they do this?! It just doesnt make sense.

That's why I mentioned how far Trulli went off, if he went off and spun then Hamilton would have gone past and not let him back. If Trulli only went off (all 4 wheels) by a couple of inches, Hamilton (+McLaren) may have thought the "pass" wasn't legal so gave it back to be on the safe side.

Martin Whitmarsh has come out and said Hamilton didn't actually lie and that it was more the case of their explanation wasn't clear enough. The Toyota radio suggests they asked Charlie about the retake and so with Trulli staying 3rd, he may well have said it was ok (which means nothing apparently - see Spa last year), then again I would have expected McLaren to ask Charlie if they were in doubt to the legality of Hamilton going past Trulli in the first place.

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san.W10

The full decision by the FIA stewards

At the first hearing following the Australian Grand Prix the Stewards did not have the benefit of the radio exchanges between driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and his Team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes nor did they have access to the comments to the Media given by Lewis Hamilton immediately after the end of the race.

From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli's car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.

During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake.

Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:

a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.

The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74158

McLaren played dirty :crazy:

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san.W10

Transcript of McLaren radio transmission

Transcript of the radio transmission between Lewis Hamilton and McLaren during the Australian Grand Prix:

Team: OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn't matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.

Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, ..., is this OK?

Team: Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

LH: OK.

LH: He's slowed right down in front of me.

Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

LH: I let him past already.

Team: OK, Lewis. That's fine. That's fine. Hold position. Hold position.

LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.

Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.

LH: I don't have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.

Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Let's just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.

Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.

LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.

Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.

Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74159

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Subject Delta
So far this season we've had a new points system brought in then taken back out, 6 cars racing under appeal for the first 2 races, a penalty given then later taken away and another dished out, and finally a harsh penalty given that could well be removed. If it rains this weekend there could well be more accidents and penalties to give out and retract :p

Just another day at the office for the FIA

Hamilton excluded from Australian results, Trulli regains third

Well that's pretty strong wording about providing deliberately misleading evidence. We're off to a very crazy season already. :wacko:

Thats your favourite team's bribe euros hard at work again :p

Here we go again. Same old sh*t as last season.

I'm just glad the footy isn't run like this, otherwise they'd probably have to give Germany the 1966 World Cup. :blink:

Nope. We would still have won it 3-2

The FIA make the ICC look competent.

The FIA make George Bush look competant... Max and Bernie are a couple of geriatric old farts that lost their grip on reality years ago

Martin Whitmarsh has come out and said Hamilton didn't actually lie and that it was more the case of their explanation wasn't clear enough. The Toyota radio suggests they asked Charlie about the retake and so with Trulli staying 3rd, he may well have said it was ok (which means nothing apparently - see Spa last year), then again I would have expected McLaren to ask Charlie if they were in doubt to the legality of Hamilton going past Trulli in the first place.

As we saw to great effect at Belgium last year, Charlie's word counts for very little

McLaren played dirty :crazy:

I don't agree with that, it seems to be a stupid mistake that the FIA as usual have jumped on. At least I can take solace from the fact that FIArrari... Sorry, Ferrari will also be pointless after melbourne

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sn00pie

bull****! I can't believe they disqualified him! Atleast fine McLaren but its not his fault.

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Pilsbury
bull****! I can't believe they disqualified him! Atleast fine McLaren but its not his fault.

So he had no part in the whole thing? :rolleyes:

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sundayx

I don't get why either.

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arrrgh

Of course he has to be punished for lying to the stewards.. There is no doubt after the transcripts were made public that A) Hamilton let Trulli past on purpose B) He afterwards lied to the stewards so that he'd get to the podium.

To me it doesn't make any sense but I guess he/McLaren wanted to get back to the podium/interviews that badly.

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Subject Delta
Of course he has to be punished for lying to the stewards.. There is no doubt after the transcripts were made public that A) Hamilton let Trulli past on purpose B) He afterwards lied to the stewards so that he'd get to the podium.

To me it doesn't make any sense but I guess he/McLaren wanted to get back to the podium/interviews that badly.

Rubbish, he wasn't put into 3rd place till way after the press interviews, please get your facts straight before posting your anti-hamilton drivel.

There is no way a driver would lie to the stewards, I just don't see it. There may have been a miscommunication but not an outright lie.

This just stinks to me of another anti-McLaren whitewash from mad-max and his facist buddies. I hope the gimp hurries up and retires, or drops dead.

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brentaal
Rubbish, he wasn't put into 3rd place till way after the press interviews, please get your facts straight before posting your anti-hamilton drivel.

There is no way a driver would lie to the stewards, I just don't see it.

He lied, get over it.

'During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake," the FIA declared.

"Both the driver and the team manager stated that no such instruction had been given.

"The race director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so."'

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CrashG
Thats your favourite team's bribe euros hard at work again :p

Could be, but I'd really like to think that they (Ferrari) would get a similar ruling if they did the same thing.

He got the punishment because his team screwed up, then both driver and team lied about it and tried to cover it up.

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Mike
He lied, get over it.

You're assuming he intentionally lied as opposed to getting the interpretation of a question wrong. Seeing as it's a one line question that the FIA have published and their dislike of McLaren, there could well have been a previous question that asked if they contacted race control and so to answer 'Were you instructed to give the place back' may well have been interpreted as being instructed by race control. As I expected, there isn't full transparency, we only know of a vague question that was asked.

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Subject Delta
He lied, get over it.

If you think the word of the FIA, who are about as honest as the Nazi party is proof on its own, then I feel for you

Could be, but I'd really like to think that they (Ferrari) would get a similar ruling if they did the same thing.

He got the punishment because his team screwed up, then both driver and team lied about it and tried to cover it up.

Agreed, on the evidence presented so far, it does sound like a McLaren screwup (but I am withholding judgement till the FIA release the proof) but all you need to look at are the precedents set last year... Bahrain where Massa got away with setting a fast lap under double waved yellows, Valencia where the side of the pole was switch due to ferrari complaining about it, AND Massa getting a wrist slap for a dangerous event that drivers in all other formulae that weekend got drive-throughs for. Then of course the lunacy of the penalty in Belgium, and the penalty given to Bourdais in Fuji for a crime no more insidious than taking the racing line and not unrolling the red carpet for Massa.

The FIA make Anti-Mclaren, and Pro-Ferrari decisions all the time (this one being the former as Ferrari make no direct gain from it).

You're assuming he intentionally lied as opposed to getting the interpretation of a question wrong. Seeing as it's a one line question that the FIA have published and their dislike of McLaren, there could well have been a previous question that asked if they contacted race control and so to answer 'Were you instructed to give the place back' may well have been interpreted as being instructed by race control. As I expected, there isn't full transparency, we only know of a vague question that was asked.

Precisely. I am withholding further judgements till the audio of the interviews is published, but something about this whole scenario certainly stinks.

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Subject Delta
He lied, get over it.

If you think the word of the FIA, who are about as honest as the Nazi party is proof on its own, then I feel for you

Could be, but I'd really like to think that they (Ferrari) would get a similar ruling if they did the same thing.

He got the punishment because his team screwed up, then both driver and team lied about it and tried to cover it up.

Agreed, on the evidence presented so far, it does sound like a McLaren screwup (but I am withholding judgement till the FIA release the proof) but all you need to look at are the precedents set last year... Bahrain where Massa got away with setting a fast lap under double waved yellows, Valencia where the side of the pole was switch due to ferrari complaining about it, AND Massa getting a wrist slap for a dangerous event that drivers in all other formulae that weekend got drive-throughs for. Then of course the lunacy of the penalty in Belgium, and the penalty given to Bourdais in Fuji for a crime no more insidious than taking the racing line and not unrolling the red carpet for Massa.

The FIA make Anti-Mclaren, and Pro-Ferrari decisions all the time (this one being the former as Ferrari make no direct gain from it).

You're assuming he intentionally lied as opposed to getting the interpretation of a question wrong. Seeing as it's a one line question that the FIA have published and their dislike of McLaren, there could well have been a previous question that asked if they contacted race control and so to answer 'Were you instructed to give the place back' may well have been interpreted as being instructed by race control. As I expected, there isn't full transparency, we only know of a vague question that was asked.

Precisely. I am withholding further judgements till the audio of the interviews is published, but something about this whole scenario certainly stinks.

They have been published, listen Here

From the sounds of the McLaren pit radio recording, it does indeed appear that the team did ask him to give the place back, but then they rescinded that instruction and asked him to stay where he was, but by then he'd already let Trulli past. My gut feeling is still that this was more of an error of judgement than a downright attempt to cheat and lie and I feel a fairer punishment would have been to have just rescinded Trulli's penalty and put them back in the positions they finished in.

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mad_onion

why would you watch a sport if you think the result is rigged? surely the racing must seem completely futile to you?

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Subject Delta
why would you watch a sport if you think the result is rigged? surely the racing must seem completely futile to you?

I didn't say it was rigged per say, I was intimating that some teams get more favourable treatment than others. The bribe Euros bit was a joke, I don't think that Ferrari really bribe the FIA, but they do still IMO get better treatment from them

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Brodel

I understand why these kinda of investigations take place, but it's really starting to ruin the sport. There is always one kind of inquiry or another after a race or teams complaining to each other about this or that. It doesn't seem possible to just watch a race and enjoy it now without wondering whether or not the result you watched is going to change a week later.

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MightyJordan

Hamilton in F1 axe threat

LEWIS HAMILTON was today told he could be thrown out of the Formula One world championship.

The McLaren driver has been found guilty of misleading FIA race stewards at last weekend's Australian Grand Prix.

He has been disqualified from that race and lost all the points he received for coming third.

But his punishment could be even more severe as the situation breaks the International Sporting Code.

A FIA spokesperson said: "Given the seriousness of this matter, we cannot rule out further action at this stage."

Hamilton was elevated from fourth to third due to Jarno Trulli being handed a 25-second penalty for passing him behind the safety car.

But radio transmissions between Hamilton and the pit wall revealed he misled stewards.

The conversation went as follows:

Hamilton: "The Toyota went off in a line at the second to last corner. I overtook him, is this okay?'

Team:"Understood, Lewis. We'll confirm and get back to you.

Hamilton: "He was off the track. He went wide.

Team: "Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now."

Hamilton and McLaren have been accused of acting "in a manner prejudicial to the conduct of the event by providing evidence deliberately misleading to the stewards".

And the FIA have it within their power to suspend Hamilton from a further race or races, or disqualify him from the championship altogether.

Source

:o

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Deathray

This is being handled in such a negative way it's unbelieveable...

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Popcorned1

What the hell? That's stupid.

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Brodel

I don't think they would throw him out, it will almost discredit the season if you don't have the previous years champion in the race. I think it's just outlining what they could do at an extreme.

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