[Feedback needed] Atlas, the next version of Neowin


Recommended Posts

Considering you haven't actually used the site, I don't think it would be fair for you to say the data savings are minimal. When we have all the code finalized, we'll be able to prove it to you.

And we did put effort into it. We wouldn't be doing this if the design we chose looked hideous in Opera and IE. Considering the circumstances, it could be a lot worse. The design was always intended to look good both ways, as we knew it would be seen both ways. Again, it's not fair for you to criticize until you've really seen it and used it in person, and you do need to realize the amount of effort and thought that went into the design.

To be honest, we had it square on our dev sites for a very long time, and it looked fine. Once you see it and use it live, you'll see it really doesn't look worse.

I agree. As you know, Dave, I used Internet Explorer for a fair bit when I first started using Atlas (as I was using IE anyway) and I'd been using it for over a week before I changed to Firefox and noticed it was all rounded. When using Internet Explorer, not knowing the site was rounded in other browsers, I still thought it looked very nice and had no problem with it.

To those complaining to the Neowin developers... why not blame your browser manufacturer? If Mozilla and Apple have been able to include support for the 'border-radius' then so have Opera and Microsoft; they just haven't bothered/have focussed on other features. That isn't Neowin's fault. Why should they be disadvantaged by having to include rounded images just because some browser manufacturers are behind with the times?

And we did put effort into it. We wouldn't be doing this if the design we chose looked hideous in Opera and IE. Considering the circumstances, it could be a lot worse. The design was always intended to look good both ways, as we knew it would be seen both ways. Again, it's not fair for you to criticize until you've really seen it and used it in person, and you do need to realize the amount of effort and thought that went into the design.

It could also look a *lot* better :p It does not look good in squared "mode". If I haven't really seen it, what was the point of showing the image of it?

I have to disagree with Mike's above post.

Eradicating all the extras DIV's and images etc needed to create rounded corners will cut down page load times enormously.

I'd disagree, if a browser takes an "enormous" time to handle a few extra divs it is seriously broken.

Wow I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. I definitely like the look of the new theme. The only way I can describe it as is...smooth. The subtle changing to a more subdued blue is less striking but a bit easier on the eyes and compliments the overall look.

Wow I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. I definitely like the look of the new theme. The only way I can describe it as is...smooth. The subtle changing to a more subdued blue is less striking but a bit easier on the eyes and compliments the overall look.

they just opened it up to us normies

I completely disagree that different browsers get a different version of the site.

Every browser should get the same experience.

Well why are you blaming Neowin? They've used the same code to get rounded elements and yet only Chrome, Safari and Firefox display those rounded elements. Surely if every browser should get the same experience then every browser should display the same output using the same code? I'm going by your logic there. Do you see what I'm saying? As a web designer myself, I'm really passionate about this - It's Microsoft and Opera's fault why the 'border-radius' doesn't display rounded elements in their browsers so I find it appalling that people can blame the developer. If a developer can make their website more efficient but still look nice in a browser that is behind with the times, often they will do so. You want rounded corners? Then why not use a browser that can render them utilising the CSS code which was designed to do such a thing?

"A few extra divs" in web design terms is a big deal.

It really isn't...

Well why are you blaming Neowin? They've used the same code to get rounded elements and yet only Chrome, Safari and Firefox display those rounded elements. Surely if every browser should get the same experience then every browser should display the same output using the same code? I'm going by your logic there. Do you see what I'm saying? As a web designer myself, I'm really passionate about this - It's Microsoft and Opera's fault why the 'border-radius' doesn't display rounded elements in their browsers so I find it appalling that people can blame the developer. If a developer can make their website more efficient but still look nice in a browser that is behind with the times, often they will do so. You want rounded corners? Then why not use a browser that can render them utilising the CSS code which was designed to do such a thing?

You blame the developer because they're developing for the browsers out there in use today. The developer is responsible in getting the site to display properly in all browsers, just like a software developer is responsible to ensure their software works with new versions of Windows for example.

You blame the developer because they're developing for the browsers out there in use today. The developer is responsible in getting the site to display properly in all browsers, just like a software developer is responsible to ensure their software works with new versions of Windows for example.

And what have the Neowin developers done? They have got the site to display properly in all browsers. So I ask again, how can you blame the developer in this case? Displaying rounded corners does not constitute "displaying properly". I suppose that could be a matter of opinion but I deem "displaying properly" as displaying in a usable manner.

I'm not even defending Neowin here, I'm defending my own opinion on CSS 'border-radius' and browser support for it.

It really isn't...

I think we are going to have to agree to dis-agree here.

I've worked in web development for over a decade and i can tell you that any web developer worth their salt will cut out any extra fluff that's un-needed especially on a busy high bandwidth site such as Neowin.

I commend the developers here for their decision to go with CSS instead of images/nested divs.

I wanted to avoid getting really technical here, but here we go...

The HTML for the latest activity box on Finity: http://min.ie/1QG

As you can see, there are a *lot* of nested divs to create the rounded corner effect.

On Atlas: http://min.ie/1QH

Download time cut down significantly, not to mention rendering time.

If you want to keep this going, pick it up in a PM with me. I don't want to post raw numbers here because our code is likely to change significantly before we release.

I would just like to say, very nice! I think it looks wonderful! You have worked hard on this site, and your hard work shows.

As for the rounded/box corners, while I am one of the ones who uses Opera, and will end up with boxed corners, I think it still looks great.

I like that a tech site is using the latest in programming and design.

Now if only Opera would hurry up and get with the latest...

Going to address this now, than later.

Safari, Chrome, Firefox (3+) will get nice rounded corners and drop shadows.

IE, Opera (crap) will get a squared looking site (which still looks nice, but a bit more "lite" like).

Opera basher?:laugh:: Opera is the bestest of the bester of them all. I love squares.

Opera basher?:laugh:: Opera is the bestest of the bester of them all. I love squares.

Hehe, I had to:pp... you have no idea how much of a pain it was to get some things to look right. And there is almost no documentation on css fixes for the opera 9~ versions.

Hehe, I had to :p ... you have no idea how much of a pain it was to get some things to look right. And there is almost no documentation on css fixes for the opera 9~ versions.

No matter. It's a very good design and pleases me very much, round or square.

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/

I really don't understand why people are making such a big fuss over rounded or square corners... The site looks amazing no matter what browser it would be viewed in. It is as simple as that.

Great work Devs!

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/

Opera doesn't really contribute a lot towards that percentage.

Opera doesn't really contribute a lot towards that percentage.

So what? The issue is the same for Opera and IE so that is irrelevant, a large portion of Neowin's browser users are having different pages fed to them.

So what? The issue is the same for Opera and IE so that is irrelevant, a large portion of Neowin's browser users are having different pages fed to them.

No, they are not, everyone gets the same exact code. Its just IE/Opera do not render the rounded corners the css specifies.

We'd have to make images for every single corner of ever box (different colors, different styles etc), also means alot more markup.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Samsung announces Galaxy A27 5G with 120Hz AMOLED display, expanded AI features, and more by Fiza Ali Samsung has announced the Galaxy A27 5G, its latest mid-range smartphone, bringing a handful of upgrades over last year's Galaxy A26 5G. While the changes aren't dramatic, they touch several areas that people tend to notice most in day-to-day use, including the display, performance, and software support. One of the more noticeable updates is the screen. The Galaxy A27 5G comes with a 6.7-inch Super AMOLED display that now supports a 120Hz refresh rate, making scrolling and animations appear smoother. Samsung has also switched to an Infinity-O punch-hole camera design, which leaves more room for the display and gives the phone a cleaner look from the front. Under the hood, the Galaxy A27 5G is powered by Qualcomm's Snapdragon 6 Gen 3 processor. The company says the new chip brings improved responsiveness in multitasking, gaming, and media consumption. The company also highlights GPU performance improvements and faster memory technology, which should contribute to smoother graphics rendering, quicker data handling, and improved power efficiency. Furthermore, Samsung has equipped the Galaxy A27 5G with a 12-megapixel selfie camera that is capable of capturing a wider dynamic range and more accurate colours. Like many smartphones launched recently, the Galaxy A27 5G also places a strong focus on AI features. Circle to Search with Google now supports multi-object recognition, making it easier to search for different products or items at the same time. The tech giant says the feature can also support virtual outfit try-ons directly from compatible search results. Photo editing tools are getting some attention as well, with Object Eraser updated to deliver cleaner edits when removing unwanted objects or people from images. Meanwhile, the Voice Recorder app can now transcribe and translate speech simultaneously in one of the 22 supported languages, which could be useful for meetings, lectures, or interviews. Samsung is also expanding AI assistant options on the device, with support for Google Gemini and Perplexity alongside Bixby. The company says these assistants will work more closely with Galaxy apps, including Gallery, to simplify common tasks. Samsung continues to strengthen its long-term software support policy with the Galaxy A27 5G. The smartphone will receive up to six generations of Android OS and One UI updates, along with six years of security patches from its initial global launch. In terms of security, the device includes Samsung Knox and Knox Vault, which are designed to help protect sensitive information stored on the phone. On the flip side, while the company is positioning the Galaxy A27 5G as a step forward from its predecessor, not every change is necessarily an upgrade. One of the first things buyers may notice is the higher price tag. The device launches at $349, making it $50 more expensive than the Galaxy A26 5G's $299 starting price. The selfie camera has also been reduced from 13MP to 12MP, while the ultrawide camera drops from 8MP to 5MP. Samsung has further downgraded the phone's dust and water resistance rating from IP67 to IP64. The Galaxy A27 5G is also marginally thicker at 7.8mm. The Galaxy A27 5G will be available in select markets starting July 3 and will come in four colour options, including Black, Blue, Light Green, and Light Pink. The company will also offer Samsung Care+ coverage plans for customers seeking additional device protection.
    • Doogee and Ulefone regularly release phones with 10k-25k mAh batteries, but those are bricks. I don't understand how they could make it only weigh 220 grams with a battery that size.
    • Windows 10 quietly gets one more year of support and updates by Taras Buria Windows 10 reached its end of life at the end of 2025. Microsoft kicked off the Extended Security Updates program, aimed at giving regular consumers one more year of security-only updates. By doing so, Microsoft gave users more time and money to update their computers to a newer operating system or compatible hardware. Now, with the end of the Extended Security Updates program quickly approaching, Microsoft is making an important adjustment. Users discovered that the official support article for the program now lists a new end-of-support date: The Extended Security Updates program is not a new concept. It has been an official way for business consumers to continue receiving critical updates for unsupported Microsoft products for many years. However, all this time, it was a business-only, paid feature. With Windows 10, Microsoft brought ESU to regular consumers, allowing them to get security updates for Windows 10 past October 2025 essentially for free. When Windows 10 was approaching the end of support, many guessed that Microsoft might adjust its support timelines, and this is exactly what seems to be happening. Of course, Microsoft would love everyone to switch to new computers, such as its latest Surface devices, but in the days of ever-growing hardware prices, not everyone is lucky enough to have money for a new PC. Leaving hundreds of millions of customers with a Windows version that no longer receives security updates is a major risk that Microsoft is not willing to take. If you have a Windows 10 PC to enroll in the Extended Security Updates program, check out this guide to learn how to do so.
    • Sony announces Bungie layoffs that will affect "significant number of employees" by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe Sony today announced that major layoffs are happening at its first-party studio Bungie, the developer that has spawned series like Halo, Destiny, and Marathon over the past decades. The news arrives just weeks after Bungie delivered the final update to Destiny 2, and it's that team being hit with the layoffs the most. CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment Hermen Hulst revealed the staff reduction today, calling it "painful news." "Over the past several months, together with Bungie leadership, we reviewed the studio’s long-term direction, development priorities, resource needs, and role within our broader portfolio strategy," said Hulst, explaining the decision. "We explored multiple alternatives before concluding that a reduction was necessary to align the studio’s resources with its current priorities and long-term goals." The layoffs will be hitting "a significant number of employees" across most of the Destiny franchise development team. It doesn't look like Sony is planning to continue the series following Destiny 2's sunsetting update. The studio is said to be in early stages of looking at other projects to pivot to, but it's said that keeping the size of the team at current levels is no longer feasible. "We know this decision has a profound impact on the people affected, their families, friends, and teammates," said Bungie leadership in a separate message on social media. "While these changes are necessary to best position the studio now and for the future, that does not lessen the difficulty of this moment or the impact it has on those affected." At the same time, "some" of the Marathon development team are also affected by the layoffs. The recently released multiplayer-only extraction shooter title hasn't seen a big boom of players either, but the company is reportedly hoping that the live service experience will pick up players with future updates.
    • Microsoft adds reusable skills and finance data connectors to Copilot in Excel by Karthik Mudaliar Microsoft is giving Copilot in Excel a collection of new features aimed squarely at finance teams. The update introduces reusable instructions for common tasks, connections to services such as FactSet and Morningstar, and a better way to review what Copilot intends to do before it starts changing a workbook. The most interesting addition is 'Skills' finally coming to Copilot in Excel. Skills let companies teach Copilot how to handle a recurring process, so employees do not need to write the same detailed prompt every month. Users can create skills that can specify the steps Copilot should follow, along with the required layout, formulas, and formatting. Microsoft says users can create their own skills by saving a SKILL.md file in OneDrive. The file is written using Markdown and tells Copilot when and how to perform the task. Once it is available, a user can select the skill in the Copilot pane or mention it in a prompt using the @ symbol. There is also a library of prebuilt finance skills for customers who do not want to create their own. Microsoft plans to let developers distribute additional skills through the Microsoft Marketplace and the Microsoft 365 Admin Center, with LSEG, Ramp, Rogo, samaya.ai, Velixo, and Vena among the first partners involved. The company says that it is also expanding the external data that Copilot can access from inside Excel. New connectors are being added for CB Insights, Daloopa, FactSet, Morningstar, PitchBook, and S&P Global data through technology developed by Kensho. There is a catch, however. Accessing these services may require a separate subscription from the relevant data provider, so a Microsoft 365 Copilot licence will not necessarily unlock all of them. FactSet is also only available in preview for now, with general availability planned for July. Microsoft is also trying to make Copilot’s workbook edits easier to inspect. Users can switch to a planning mode that shows which sheets, cell ranges, formulas, and assumptions Copilot intends to work with before it begins making changes. Once the work is complete, the Show Changes pane can distinguish edits made by Copilot from those made by human collaborators. The update continues Microsoft’s push to turn Excel Copilot from a chatbot into an agent that can carry out longer tasks. The company previously added an Agent Mode capable of planning and completing multi-step Excel work. Microsoft also recently acquired financial AI startup Fintool, another indication that finance is becoming a key target for its Excel AI strategy. Prebuilt skills, personalization, workbook rules, external connectors, planning mode, and Copilot attribution in Show Changes are generally available to Microsoft 365 Copilot customers using Excel on the web, Windows, and macOS. Custom skills are initially available to Microsoft 365 Insiders on Windows and Mac starting today. Microsoft plans to make them generally available across Windows, Mac, and the web over the next month. Partner-built skills are expected during the third quarter of the year. Availability may still differ depending on region and licensing.
  • Recent Achievements

    • First Post
      kinowa earned a badge
      First Post
    • Rookie
      krychek57 went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Grand Master
      Jaybonaut went up a rank
      Grand Master
    • One Year In
      Philsl earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Dedicated
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Dedicated
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      438
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      169
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      134
    4. 4
      Xenon
      77
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      75
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!