[Feedback needed] Atlas, the next version of Neowin

[Guest]

New design looks great, very clean and fresh looking :).

In regards to using css to create rounded corners, I think its a lot better than having to create images. I have done the same on some sites I have created recently.

If anyone wants to read up on rounded css property, check out:

http://www.css3.info/preview/rounded-border/

[Calum Veteran]

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/

[...] a large portion of Neowin's browser users are having different pages fed to them.

These are probably two of the most absurd statements I've seen in a long time. Firstly, as Timan pointed out, they are the same pages - the same code - it's just that Internet Explorer and Opera cannot render some of the CSS elements, so how does that mean different pages are being fed to the user? It doesn't because they are the same pages.

Secondly, and this refers to the first statement quoted, it's not like rounded corners are a major feature which affects the functionality of a website. How do you even know you'd be getting rounded corners if Firefox, Chrome and Safari didn't support them? For all you know, everything may have been square if no browser supported 'border-radius.' It's a nice perk for those of us who use a browser which supports 'border-radius' though :)

Again, I'm not even defending Neowin here rather my own viewpoint as a web designer.

[Draconian Guppy]

IMO the latest comunity activity "refresh" button, should only be the two arrows, not the text, like the current theme.

[Rudnartim]

Definitely a very nice layout.

[BajiRav]

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/

I really doubt 70% of Neowin users are on IE.

Going by the usual threads and posters I think it is*,

50.11% Opera

95.56% Firefox

3.5% Safari

-30.91% IE

30.41% Chrome

* Yea, I made it up :p

[Andrew Lyle Global Moderator]

It could be true. IE is the default install browser, and most of the Internet uses IE.

Slot of traffic that comes into neowin is guests.

There should be statistics somewhere on neowin about browser usage.

It could be true. IE is the default install browser, and most of the Internet uses IE.

Slot of traffic that comes into neowin is guests.

There should be statistics somewhere on neowin about browser usage.

[Kirkburn]

It's a tech website, it's going to be much more weighted to non-IE browsers.

On the website I work on (a pretty big one, much bigger than Neowin), which is not as tech-oriented as Neowin, IE has fallen below 40% of viewers. Well over half of viewers would see rounded corners, if we used them.

And, as people say, as the corners are not integral to the workings of the site, they've made a sensible decision. It might be relatively small saving, but it adds up to a lot over time. Everything counts. A small decrease in load times can make a huge difference to user satisfaction (and bandwidth costs).

(Oh, and Neowin already uses stuff IE doesn't support - text shadows. Check out the menu bar on the main page sometime.)

[Richard Hammond]

And what have the Neowin developers done? They have got the site to display properly in all browsers. So I ask again, how can you blame the developer in this case? Displaying rounded corners does not constitute "displaying properly". I suppose that could be a matter of opinion but I deem "displaying properly" as displaying in a usable manner.

I'm not even defending Neowin here, I'm defending my own opinion on CSS 'border-radius' and browser support for it.

They should use the standards that ALL browsers support so that EVERYONE gets the same experience when browsing Neowin, segmenting the site users by using elements that not all browsers can render smacks of using iframes back in the 90s that only ever worked properly in IE.

Any half decent webdesigner will tell you that its proper to make the site look exactly the same despite the platform, not doing so is poor form.

[ViperAFK]

I like it :)

but PLEASE ditch the fixed width

[Subject Delta]

These are probably two of the most absurd statements I've seen in a long time. Firstly, as Timan pointed out, they are the same pages - the same code - it's just that Internet Explorer and Opera cannot render some of the CSS elements, so how does that mean different pages are being fed to the user? It doesn't because they are the same pages.

Secondly, and this refers to the first statement quoted, it's not like rounded corners are a major feature which affects the functionality of a website. How do you even know you'd be getting rounded corners if Firefox, Chrome and Safari didn't support them? For all you know, everything may have been square if no browser supported 'border-radius.' It's a nice perk for those of us who use a browser which supports 'border-radius' though :)

Again, I'm not even defending Neowin here rather my own viewpoint as a web designer.

Way to go on the offensive there Calum (Y)

I am merely stating my disappointment that things are being implemented before they are really ready

[Simon Veteran]

These ideas have been around for years, we can't wait a few years more to start using them. Again, everything degrades nicely, and a majority of our users will get the round corners.

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure. Are we a big site? Well, in the grand scheme of things... no, we're not. But there's still a chance that we can push Microsoft and Opera into implementing these somewhat basic features. Opera, we know, will be implementing them in the next major Presto update. Microsoft... we just hope.

[MikeChipshop Member]

Any half decent webdesigner will tell you that its proper to make the site look exactly the same despite the platform, not doing so is poor form.

Nope, any decent web designer will develop a site that delivers the content with maximum usability that degrades well in lesser browsers. which is what exactly is happening here.

Evolution not devolution.

[nav1sk]

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure.

Exactly. If no site will use it, there won't be any need for developers to implement it into the browser. And the absence of rounded corners doesn't degrade the site's usability.

Also: http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/ :)

[Subject Delta]

These ideas have been around for years, we can't wait a few years more to start using them. Again, everything degrades nicely, and a majority of our users will get the round corners.

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure. Are we a big site? Well, in the grand scheme of things... no, we're not. But there's still a chance that we can push Microsoft and Opera into implementing these somewhat basic features. Opera, we know, will be implementing them in the next major Presto update. Microsoft... we just hope.

Yeah I do appreciate that, sorry if I seemed a bit rude. Isn't IE9 still quiet a long way off though? :/

[Ci7]

looking good so far .

i just hope that you make a lightweight homepage for Smart phones

Yeah I do appreciate that, sorry if I seemed a bit rude. Isn't IE9 still quiet a long way off though? :/

hopefully by next year ,along with Sl 4 x64 goodness

Edited September 19, 2009 by Ci7

[giggsey]

i just hope that you make a lightweight homepage for Smart phones

I remember seeing this on Twitter yesterday - http://twitpic.com/i6c39

Also, looking great guys, can't wait to be browsing the new version. Esp with IPB 3 over 2.3.

[Ci7]

I remember seeing this on Twitter yesterday - http://twitpic.com/i6c39

Also, looking great guys, can't wait to be browsing the new version. Esp with IPB 3 over 2.3.

cool (Y)

[Simon Veteran]

People thought it would take a long time to get IE8, iirc. And considering the long wait for IE7, IE8 came quite soon afterwards.

[PyX]

I like it. The blue isn't as powerful as in the current version of Neowin - Finity - and it's perfect like this. It also has the Web 2.0 looks, looks polished, etc.

Thing is, the version before Finity, Swift I think, was perfect for me. When Finity appeared, I didn't like it at first. I've got to say that this upcoming version - Atlas - is much better and I'm already convinced by it. But do we really need a new theme every year or so? I think the Neowin mobile theme could be improved a lot though. It's overly simplified right now.

No matter what, I appreciate the work you guys do to keep the site updated, but I don't think all of it is necessary.

On another note, I didn't read the whole thread, but I think it's OK to make the assumption that it will have IPB 3.0 ... right?

[mail]

wat

[rage710]

I like it, it looks very clean and professional. :)

[Hylands]

Looking good, I especially like the mobile version.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

wat

Methinks they need to add commas or something.

Other than that I have no complaints. I like it. :]

[Timan Veteran]

wat

is "wat" happens when someone doesn't tag a story correctly :p

[AltecXP]

I think tags should go above the by line