[Feedback needed] Atlas, the next version of Neowin


Recommended Posts

New design looks great, very clean and fresh looking :).

In regards to using css to create rounded corners, I think its a lot better than having to create images. I have done the same on some sites I have created recently.

If anyone wants to read up on rounded css property, check out:

http://www.css3.info/preview/rounded-border/

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/
[...] a large portion of Neowin's browser users are having different pages fed to them.

These are probably two of the most absurd statements I've seen in a long time. Firstly, as Timan pointed out, they are the same pages - the same code - it's just that Internet Explorer and Opera cannot render some of the CSS elements, so how does that mean different pages are being fed to the user? It doesn't because they are the same pages.

Secondly, and this refers to the first statement quoted, it's not like rounded corners are a major feature which affects the functionality of a website. How do you even know you'd be getting rounded corners if Firefox, Chrome and Safari didn't support them? For all you know, everything may have been square if no browser supported 'border-radius.' It's a nice perk for those of us who use a browser which supports 'border-radius' though :)

Again, I'm not even defending Neowin here rather my own viewpoint as a web designer.

Surely on a site as big as this it makes more sense to wait until features are finalised, and have more wide support to use them. 2 browsers which between them make up about 70% of the world's browser usage don't even support the features being used, that should be a strong enough indication in itself :/

I really doubt 70% of Neowin users are on IE.

Going by the usual threads and posters I think it is*,

50.11% Opera

95.56% Firefox

3.5% Safari

-30.91% IE

30.41% Chrome

* Yea, I made it up :p

It could be true. IE is the default install browser, and most of the Internet uses IE.

Slot of traffic that comes into neowin is guests.

There should be statistics somewhere on neowin about browser usage.

It could be true. IE is the default install browser, and most of the Internet uses IE.

Slot of traffic that comes into neowin is guests.

There should be statistics somewhere on neowin about browser usage.

It's a tech website, it's going to be much more weighted to non-IE browsers.

On the website I work on (a pretty big one, much bigger than Neowin), which is not as tech-oriented as Neowin, IE has fallen below 40% of viewers. Well over half of viewers would see rounded corners, if we used them.

And, as people say, as the corners are not integral to the workings of the site, they've made a sensible decision. It might be relatively small saving, but it adds up to a lot over time. Everything counts. A small decrease in load times can make a huge difference to user satisfaction (and bandwidth costs).

(Oh, and Neowin already uses stuff IE doesn't support - text shadows. Check out the menu bar on the main page sometime.)

And what have the Neowin developers done? They have got the site to display properly in all browsers. So I ask again, how can you blame the developer in this case? Displaying rounded corners does not constitute "displaying properly". I suppose that could be a matter of opinion but I deem "displaying properly" as displaying in a usable manner.

I'm not even defending Neowin here, I'm defending my own opinion on CSS 'border-radius' and browser support for it.

They should use the standards that ALL browsers support so that EVERYONE gets the same experience when browsing Neowin, segmenting the site users by using elements that not all browsers can render smacks of using iframes back in the 90s that only ever worked properly in IE.

Any half decent webdesigner will tell you that its proper to make the site look exactly the same despite the platform, not doing so is poor form.

These are probably two of the most absurd statements I've seen in a long time. Firstly, as Timan pointed out, they are the same pages - the same code - it's just that Internet Explorer and Opera cannot render some of the CSS elements, so how does that mean different pages are being fed to the user? It doesn't because they are the same pages.

Secondly, and this refers to the first statement quoted, it's not like rounded corners are a major feature which affects the functionality of a website. How do you even know you'd be getting rounded corners if Firefox, Chrome and Safari didn't support them? For all you know, everything may have been square if no browser supported 'border-radius.' It's a nice perk for those of us who use a browser which supports 'border-radius' though :)

Again, I'm not even defending Neowin here rather my own viewpoint as a web designer.

Way to go on the offensive there Calum (Y)

I am merely stating my disappointment that things are being implemented before they are really ready

These ideas have been around for years, we can't wait a few years more to start using them. Again, everything degrades nicely, and a majority of our users will get the round corners.

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure. Are we a big site? Well, in the grand scheme of things... no, we're not. But there's still a chance that we can push Microsoft and Opera into implementing these somewhat basic features. Opera, we know, will be implementing them in the next major Presto update. Microsoft... we just hope.

Any half decent webdesigner will tell you that its proper to make the site look exactly the same despite the platform, not doing so is poor form.

Nope, any decent web designer will develop a site that delivers the content with maximum usability that degrades well in lesser browsers. which is what exactly is happening here.

Evolution not devolution.

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure.

Exactly. If no site will use it, there won't be any need for developers to implement it into the browser. And the absence of rounded corners doesn't degrade the site's usability.

Also: http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/ :)

These ideas have been around for years, we can't wait a few years more to start using them. Again, everything degrades nicely, and a majority of our users will get the round corners.

No one's going to implement things in their browser unless they're pressured into it. We're starting that pressure. Are we a big site? Well, in the grand scheme of things... no, we're not. But there's still a chance that we can push Microsoft and Opera into implementing these somewhat basic features. Opera, we know, will be implementing them in the next major Presto update. Microsoft... we just hope.

Yeah I do appreciate that, sorry if I seemed a bit rude. Isn't IE9 still quiet a long way off though? :/

looking good so far .

i just hope that you make a lightweight homepage for Smart phones

Yeah I do appreciate that, sorry if I seemed a bit rude. Isn't IE9 still quiet a long way off though? :/

hopefully by next year ,along with Sl 4 x64 goodness

Edited by Ci7
i just hope that you make a lightweight homepage for Smart phones

I remember seeing this on Twitter yesterday - http://twitpic.com/i6c39

Also, looking great guys, can't wait to be browsing the new version. Esp with IPB 3 over 2.3.

I like it. The blue isn't as powerful as in the current version of Neowin - Finity - and it's perfect like this. It also has the Web 2.0 looks, looks polished, etc.

Thing is, the version before Finity, Swift I think, was perfect for me. When Finity appeared, I didn't like it at first. I've got to say that this upcoming version - Atlas - is much better and I'm already convinced by it. But do we really need a new theme every year or so? I think the Neowin mobile theme could be improved a lot though. It's overly simplified right now.

No matter what, I appreciate the work you guys do to keep the site updated, but I don't think all of it is necessary.

On another note, I didn't read the whole thread, but I think it's OK to make the assumption that it will have IPB 3.0 ... right?

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Now 8GB of ram looks even worse in the Neo. I'm so happy I purchased 128GB of DDR 4 when I did.... paid $174. Upgraded my parents laptop to 32GB around the same time for $48. Luckily I have a TON of spare laptops. So i'm good on laptops for a while. I also have a lot of desktops too that I could use if i had to. Lets just hope nothing happens to my main 4 monitor couch workstation.
    • I will keep my current devices for several years... no planning in upgrading until these devices stop working. Too pricey.
    • Apple raises MacBook and iPad prices as memory costs surge by Karthik Mudaliar Apple has raised the U.S. prices of several MacBook and iPad models, including the MacBook Neo, which it launched for $599 less than four months ago. The company’s cheapest laptop now starts at $699, while some MacBook Pro configurations have increased by $300. The changes affect the MacBook Neo, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iPad Air, and iPad Pro. Apple has not changed the hardware or storage included with these models, so customers are simply paying more for the same configurations. Here is how the new US pricing compares with the previous starting prices: Product Previous price New price Increase MacBook Neo $599 $699 $100 13-inch MacBook Air, 512GB $1,099 $1,299 $200 14-inch MacBook Pro, 1TB $1,699 $1,999 $300 16-inch MacBook Pro $2,699 $2,999 $300 11-inch iPad Air, 128GB $599 $749 $150 13-inch iPad Air, 128GB $799 $949 $150 11-inch iPad Pro, 256GB $999 $1,199 $200 13-inch iPad Pro, 256GB $1,299 $1,499 $200 The updated prices are already appearing on Apple’s U.S. online store. The MacBook Neo increase will probably attract the most attention. Apple introduced the laptop in March for $599, pitching it as a more affordable Mac for students and buyers considering Windows laptops or Chromebooks. It uses an A18 Pro processor and originally undercut Dell’s new $699 XPS 13 by $100. Following the increase, the two laptops now have the same starting price. The M5 MacBook Air has also lost the price Apple promoted when it launched in March. The 13-inch model arrived with 512GB of storage for $1,099, while Apple’s store now lists the MacBook Air range as starting at $1,299. The 14-inch MacBook Pro with an M5 chip and 1TB of storage has gone from $1,699 to $1,999. Apple has made similar changes to its iPads. The recently released M4 iPad Air, which launched at the same $599 starting price as its predecessor, now starts at $749 for the 11-inch version. The 13-inch version has risen from $799 to $949. The iPad Pro increases are larger in dollar terms. Apple’s 11-inch M5 iPad Pro now starts at $1,199, up from $999, while the 13-inch version has moved from $1,299 to $1,499. Both base models still include 256GB of storage. Apple blamed the increases on the rapidly rising cost of DRAM and NAND flash, which provide system memory and device storage. The company told Reuters that it had tried to shield customers from the increases but could no longer absorb them. “We have never seen a component price increase this much, this quickly,” Apple said. Tim Cook had already warned that price increases were coming. Cook said Apple’s existing component inventory had softened the immediate impact, but that higher memory costs would increasingly affect the company after the June quarter. Much of the pressure comes from the construction of AI data centers. Memory manufacturers are directing more production toward high-margin server products, leaving PC, tablet, and smartphone makers competing for the remaining supply. Apple has not said whether the new prices are temporary or whether further increases are planned. For now, the changes show that even Apple’s purchasing power has not been enough to keep the AI-driven memory shortage away from consumer devices.
    • Ventoy 1.1.16 is out.
    • This is a none story - these low volume Chinese models will always get new experimental features first because Apple and Samsung can't produce them in huge volume to meet demand.
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      455
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      169
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      134
    4. 4
      Xenon
      77
    5. 5
      Michael Scrip
      76
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!