Microsoft needs to get there crap together

[Subject Delta]

It is you who thinks it is crappy. Nothing turns into crap magically because someone says it is crap. I obviously don't share the same opinion. I paid for it because I think it is a good product.

CuCumber is just another misinformed Apple fan that somehow assumes that bling makes their products better (despite being too cheap to actually buy a mac, and using an illegal hacked copy of OSX). Don't waste your time debating with him, you'll just end up with a headache.

[Hitman2000]

I love how the mac lovers say OSX is better lookign than windows like its a fact from an encyclopedia.

The opinion of 5% of the people is spouted around as the truth, how exactly is OSX more "pretty" than windows??? I love the design and feel of windows and the fact that 90% of the world also runs it means it cant be half as ugly as the mac lover want us to think...

Where exactly did this mac looks better than windows rubbish start? Same applies for apple hardware, it dosent looks very stylish to me, i rather a corsair obsidian or lan li case with a thousand other cases and monitors that look way better than any of the same plain boring white or gun metal grey of apple hardware.

[CuCumber]

CuCumber is just another misinformed Apple fan that somehow assumes that bling makes their products better (despite being too cheap to actually buy a mac, and using an illegal hacked copy of OSX). Don't waste your time debating with him, you'll just end up with a headache.

Hi Frankenstein. Did you know that offtopic personal attacks don't make the bad things go away? I'm glad that I got Win7 practically free so that incompetent UI team didn't get any of my money.

I'm sure Zagor has some nice Windows pics that makes my examples pale in comparison. (I'm holding my breath...)

@Hitman2000:

Why don't you compare the pics in my links to the one by hdood. (You know the crap "new fax" picture :happy: ). Quality doesn't mean the same as personal taste.

[Subject Delta]

I love how the mac lovers say OSX is better lookign than windows like its a fact from an encyclopedia.

The opinion of 5% of the people is spouted around as the truth, how exactly is OSX more "pretty" than windows??? I love the design and feel of windows and the fact that 90% of the world also runs it means it cant be half as ugly as the mac lover want us to think...

Where exactly did this mac looks better than windows rubbish start? Same applies for apple hardware, it dosent looks very stylish to me, i rather a corsair obsidian or lan li case with a thousand other cases and monitors that look way better than any of the same plain boring white or gun metal grey of apple hardware.

It takes 2 sets of idiots. One set to propagate a lie, and another to believe it. Personally I think my Kandalf LCS case looks far more stylish than any crapintosh computer, fact is though style is relative, but most mac fans think that Steve Jobs is god, and will listen to anything he says unquestioningly, if he says that OSX looks better than Windows it must be true :o

[ManMountain]

I agree your Kandalf LCS does look quite stylish but I might add that I think my Lian Li chasis is super sexy stylish :)

[zagor]

Hi Frankenstein. Did you know that offtopic personal attacks don't make the bad things go away? I'm glad that I got Win7 practically free so that incompetent UI team didn't get any of my money.

I'm sure Zagor has some nice Windows pics that makes my examples pale in comparison. (I'm holding my breath...)

@Hitman2000:

Why don't you compare the pics in my links to the one by hdood. (You know the crap "new fax" picture :happy: ). Quality doesn't mean the same as personal taste.

are you a 5th grader? Stop calling names at other members...and, pay for OS X...

While some may find the pictures you posted stylish, many others may find just childish...

[CuCumber]

While some may find the pictures you posted stylish, many others may find just childish...

Can the others point out why they look childish? If not, then there's nothing to argue with.

Look at markjensen's post. Can you do the same with a pic from OS X or some of the pics I posted that weren't from OS X?

[Kirkburn]

About that Fax program screenshot: it's a Fax program ... not exactly the most important program in the world these days. Tbh, if they had spent loads of resources on it, it'd be a waste of time.

Normally it looks like this: http://media.wiley.com/Lux/06/145406.image1.jpg

However, I agree - it's not great design, but is probably better explained as a relic.

[zagor]

Can the others point out why they look childish? If not, then there's nothing to argue with.

Look at markjensen's post. Can you do the same with a pic from OS X or some of the pics I posted that weren't from OS X?

they look like a kid dressed up for an Halloween party...overemphasized and overdone...

[Kirkburn]

You are WILDLY exaggerating Office's complexity. I'm sorry dude, but a god damn status bar in Office is no more complicated than a status bar in Notepad. It's the same damn thing. How you can even explain visual differences with "increased complexity" boggles the mind. The only reason it looks different in Office is because Microsoft wanted it to look fancier rather than respect the OS style (which is provided by the OS, and that is how you make the program consistent across several OS versions. Microsoft could decide to make buttons purple in a future Windows version, then all programs that used the standard button control or read the style/color scheme would now look purple whereas if you ran it on 7, they would look gray and blue.)

Take a close look at Office 2003 someday. Try and work your way through all the menus and dialogue options - there's way too much for that type of UI.

One of the big findings during and after Office 2007's development, is that lots of people thought the team had added new features, when they'd been present in Office for years - but nobody could find them.

Yes, the status bar is more complex than that in Notepad. Making silly claims doesn't help anyone.

In your world, Office would never had have a ribbon, because it wasn't in Windows already. And an Office with the ribbon could never be used on XP.

I detest your world.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

The general consensus is, that Windows is too flashy, too bulky, too busy, and OS X is the opposite.

You have two sides of the spectrum there. Some people like one, some people like the other. Some people are really not that bothered and will be happy with both.

There are some sub-par looking Applications on Mac, but all the ones I can think of are MS ones. Like Office and Messenger. :/

Office has an annoying floating toolbox (Which has more of a presence than the one in Windows.. Think of how the floating toolboxs are in Photoshop), and Messenger.. is.. Well.

http://news.msgstuff.com/images/MacMessenger2.jpg

Yyyeeeaahhh...

[Kirkburn]

Office has an annoying floating toolbox (Which has more of a presence than the one in Windows.. Think of how the floating toolboxs are in Photoshop), and Messenger.. is.. Well.

Floating toolbox? You mean this: http://static.flickr.com/90/272879440_62108c32af_o.png ?

If so, that's a very definite UI choice, and it works pretty well for most people (if it didn't, they would have thrown it out during UX testing).

[zagor]

Floating toolbox? You mean this: http://static.flickr.com/90/272879440_62108c32af_o.png ?

If so, that's a very definite UI choice, and it works pretty well for most people (if it didn't, they would have thrown it out during UX testing).

+1

That is an extremely useful feature. You can only appreciate that if you have to use Word a lot...

[PurePhoenix]

Tnx but no tnx, ill stay with my ugly looking os.

Lol no offense, but if 99% of the population like the look of W7 i'd say it's your sense of aesthetics that's weird, not the W7 GUI.

I think MS have done a good job, i don't even want to install litestep on W7 and i litterally can't stand XP/2k without litestep.

[Minimoose]

What's the point in arguing about this, just download a theme and get on with your lives ;)

[hdood]

Normally it looks like this: http://media.wiley.com/Lux/06/145406.image1.jpg

Uh? Your screenshot is exactly the same, except that the text box doesn't have focus. No idea what point you're trying to make.

About that Fax program screenshot: it's a Fax program ... not exactly the most important program in the world these days. Tbh, if they had spent loads of resources on it, it'd be a waste of time.

[...] However, I agree - it's not great design, but is probably better explained as a relic.

It is a Windows 7 component. That people here seriously defend the fact that Microsoft just can't be bothered to update everything that ships in the OS when technically possible is crazy. This is not some guy writing software in his basement with a $1000 budget. I expect a polished product when I pay hundreds of dollars. That Microsoft wants to save money so it can pay its owners and shareholders more is a pretty pitiful excuse to defend. It was also just an example. Windows 7 is full of inconsistencies and poor design once you look past the surface. Why? Why defend this?

Yes, the status bar is more complex than that in Notepad. Making silly claims doesn't help anyone.

No, it is not. Are you on something? It's a god damn status bar, with two toolbars and a trackbar as children. Complex? It's nothing that can't be done with standard controls. Can you answer why it being "more complex" defends giving it a custom appearance that is different from all other status bars? Is it "too complex" to have a flat gray appearance? No, it's just bling, because Microsoft does not like their own OS appearance and feel they have to deviate and give their own products a different appearance.

In your world, Office would never had have a ribbon, because it wasn't in Windows already. And an Office with the ribbon could never be used on XP.

I detest your world.

Liar. I have said over and over again that it is okay to have custom controls for functionality that the OS can't provide, if they follow the same style. What I'm complaining about is pointless deviations such as 2003 having custom color schemes (and blue by default!!!) instead of using the OS colors, or 2007 having a custom style status bar or scroll bar or the Office Ribbon having a different appearance from the Windows ribbon.

[cork1958]

I don't give a rats what it looks like, as long as it functions well and does what I want it to do I'm pleased.

Amen!!

+1

[gkl]

(regarding the Send Fax program) It is a Windows 7 component. That people here seriously defend the fact that Microsoft just can't be bothered to update everything that ships in the OS when technically possible is crazy. This is not some guy writing software in his basement with a $1000 budget. I expect a polished product when I pay hundreds of dollars. That Microsoft wants to save money so it can pay its owners and shareholders more is a pretty pitiful excuse to defend. It was also just an example. Windows 7 is full of inconsistencies and poor design once you look past the surface. Why? Why defend this?

I completely agree with this. I paid money for Windows and I owe nothing to Microsoft and therefore expect a very high quality product. Unfortunately the "it's OK who gives a damn" mentality at Microsoft regarding UI details (OK, that isn't even a detail...) is one of the reasons why people still have to bitch and moan about the visual quality of software they paid. Sure, you can disagree and say that all that counts is under the hood, but it's not. Clean and easy-to-use UI, in my humble opinion, is one of the basic components for productive and pleasant work/play environment.

Also, why are there still Windows 98-style icons? It's bloody 2009 and Microsoft is hardly a small company serving a few dozens of people...

PS

Before people accuse me of being a Mac fanboy (I haven't even used one), troll or somebody who hasn't seen the light, I use Windows 7 and like it very much. :p Just thought I'd throw in here...

EDIT

Forgot about this; to back up hdood's claims about Office sometimes being uselessly flash, look at Office 2003 (outdated, but still used widely) - blue bars with gradients? Hardly a native XP UI and adds nothing productive at all.

[Richard Hammond]

Microsoft doesnt give a toss about a relatively, compared to the millions of people who wont whine about it, small amount of users crying because it hasnt updated some random icons or some windows layout thats been there for 10 years.

[Subject Delta]

I agree your Kandalf LCS does look quite stylish but I might add that I think my Lian Li chasis is super sexy stylish :)

Yep, I agree but my point remains that despite what people like CuCumber think, Apple aren't the only people that can make pretty computers :p

[CuCumber]

Microsoft doesnt give a toss about a relatively, compared to the millions of people who wont whine about it, small amount of users crying because it hasnt updated some random icons or some windows layout thats been there for 10 years.

That pretty much sums it up, they don't give a damn as long as it sells. But mocking of their UI still continues.

Yep, I agree but my point remains that despite what people like CuCumber think, Apple aren't the only people that can make pretty computers :p

Funny how I've never mentioned the design of Apple's hardware, neither do I care as I'm not gonna buy that. It's just the skill of their UI designers that gets my admiration.

Little salt to the wounds:

Nice colors.

[Kirkburn]

Uh? Your screenshot is exactly the same, except that the text box doesn't have focus. No idea what point you're trying to make.

No corruption, no odd resizing.

It is a Windows 7 component. That people here seriously defend the fact that Microsoft just can't be bothered to update everything that ships in the OS when technically possible is crazy. This is not some guy writing software in his basement with a $1000 budget. I expect a polished product when I pay hundreds of dollars. That Microsoft wants to save money so it can pay its owners and shareholders more is a pretty pitiful excuse to defend. It was also just an example. Windows 7 is full of inconsistencies and poor design once you look past the surface. Why? Why defend this?

The same reason the font dialogue wasn't updated: it's a waste of resource to spend time on stuff that people will rarely see.

No, it is not. Are you on something? It's a god damn status bar, with two toolbars and a trackbar as children. Complex? It's nothing that can't be done with standard controls. Can you answer why it being "more complex" defends giving it a custom appearance that is different from all other status bars? Is it "too complex" to have a flat gray appearance? No, it's just bling, because Microsoft does not like their own OS appearance and feel they have to deviate and give their own products a different appearance.

It has buttons and controls on it - it does not just show information, it is interactive.

Liar. I have said over and over again that it is okay to have custom controls for functionality that the OS can't provide, if they follow the same style. What I'm complaining about is pointless deviations such as 2003 having custom color schemes (and blue by default!!!) instead of using the OS colors, or 2007 having a custom style status bar or scroll bar or the Office Ribbon having a different appearance from the Windows ribbon.

"Liar"? That takes some balls. (I'm not even sure how it could apply in this context tbh).

You have been complaining that Office didn't use built in controls. Neither Vista nor XP had the ribbon built in. How, then, could Office have ever used the ribbon? Developing it for Windows first wouldn't make sense.

[CuCumber]

it's a waste of resource to spend time on stuff that people will rarely see.

It would have taken two minutes to make a better pie chart.

[Circaflex]

Oh, so first you pay for a product and then defend it's crappiness. As I'm sure you wouldn't notice quality even if it'd hit you, I'll give you some examples:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c..._screenshot.png

http://jonasraskdesign.com/iconarchive/iconarchive.html

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_dhwP9ht4gfE/StkNH0Sv...ion_prev512.png

Ever seen something like that in Windows?

you do realize your second link, http://jonasraskdesign.com/iconarchive/iconarchive.html, has packages for mac and windows right? So yes i have seen something like that in Windows.

[-KJ]

Windows 7 theme is actually good. Could it be better? Definitely. For one, I feel the Start Orb has been shoehorned into the Superbar (the way the orb touches the edges of the Superbar gives that stuffy appearance). Then you have distortion occurring in the corners when you change the padding/border size. That's more of an issue of implementation and forcing a graphic to scale down. Some of the blues are a bit overpowering to me, but then again, they designed this for everyone.

Things could look a lot more 'professional' from a graphic designers POV, but I think most people are happy the way it is. Doing more would be pleasing the graphic designers who have probably migrated over to Mac OS X, anyway.