Panther Pre Release

By iCe|
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danbalsh

Posted
Posted
What's the advantage of enabling journaling? Is that a factor in the new super fast searchs? I knew it was available before in one of the 10.2.x releases via a terminal command but that's it :blush:

Yeah i'd like to know that too, is it worth turning on?

Grand Master

Wickedkitten Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
What's the advantage of enabling journaling? Is that a factor in the new super fast searchs? I knew it was available before in one of the 10.2.x releases via a terminal command but that's it :blush:

i think its just the difference between it being on a pc like a ntfs partition vs fat32. it makes it easier to search for things and makes it easier to recover things if the OS coughs on you

Community Regular

usr.bin

Posted
Posted
Yeah i'd like to know that too, is it worth turning on?

I've found a few links regaurding it. Nothing from Panther, but it's been implimented (as Dazzla said) in Jag, you just have to turn it on from the Terminal.

You can look here for it's intro, here to learn how to turn it on, here to see what the register has to say about it, and the Official Apple PDF is here.

Community Regular

usr.bin

Posted
Posted
n/p

I always like to try and attempt to outdo Wickedkitten.  :laugh:

*Runs away before the ###### reads teh post*

LMAO :laugh:

The Kitten has spy's everywhere....... he WILL find you :doctor:

Oh dear, you should probably edit that post to read "she" before she comes back online :whistle: :D

Grand Master

the evn show

Posted
Posted

Journaling moves harddisk disk writes to a transaction based method.

On a normal file system (fat32, hfs) when you say "write this to the disk" the harddrive will start writting the data to the platter - overwritting files as it goes (i am intentionally ignoring caching etc). Imagine you were writting an update to a critical part of the system and your system went down: you could lose everything on a disk or damage much data so you have to go and check the entire disk to make sure everything is okay.

On a trasaction based system (ntfs, reiserfs, hfs+) every write is first written as a transaction to a journal and then to the disk. The advantage is that if a disk goes down down while writting the system can reboot and not have to worry about losing everything:it can playback the journal and bring the system to a known state.

It won't stop you from loosing data but it will make the recovery from a disk write failure faster.

It's basicly a way of making your disk more reliable in the event of power outage. The performance hit is typically less than 10% for writting though no penalty for reads should be detectable (some say it makes it faster because the data is stored better on the disk - I don't believe them, but what do I know?)

I have journaling turned on for systems that spend most of their time unplugged because you never know what could go wrong. For systems that don't move I leave it turned off.

Veteran

danbalsh

Posted
Posted
Fortunatly, she's having some issues with MSN again and I don't think she's been paying attention. ;)

Back on topic, have you noticed any performance gain after turning on Journaling?

Not as yet no, but I'm not doing anything intense yet... I'll give it a whirl in a min to see if anything has improved,

Although according to the links you gave me, it's more of a safety procedure than a performance enhancement.

Grand Master

Wickedkitten Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Journaling moves harddisk disk writes to a transaction based method.

On a normal file system (fat32, hfs) when you say "write this to the disk" the harddrive will start writting the data to the platter - overwritting files as it goes (i am intentionally ignoring caching etc). Imagine you were writting an update to a critical part of the system and your system went down: you could lose everything on a disk or damage much data so you have to go and check the entire disk to make sure everything is okay.

On a trasaction based system (ntfs, reiserfs, hfs+) every write is first written as a transaction to a journal and then to the disk. The advantage is that if a disk goes down down while writting the system can reboot and not have to worry about losing everything:it can playback the journal and bring the system to a known state.

It won't stop you from loosing data but it will make the recovery from a disk write failure faster.

It's basicly a way of making your disk more reliable in the event of power outage. The performance hit is typically less than 10% for writting though no penalty for reads should be detectable (some say it makes it faster because the data is stored better on the disk - I don't believe them, but what do I know?)

I have journaling turned on for systems that spend most of their time unplugged because you never know what could go wrong. For systems that don't move I leave it turned off.

have i mentioned lately I absolutely love your posts. I like the way you are always concise and articulate in your giving of information and leave little room for argument :D

Community Regular

usr.bin

Posted
Posted
Journaling moves harddisk disk writes to a transaction based method.

On a normal file system (fat32, hfs) when you say "write this to the disk" the harddrive will start writting the data to the platter - overwritting files as it goes (i am intentionally ignoring caching etc).  Imagine you were writting an update to a critical part of the system and your system went down: you could lose everything on a disk or damage much data so you have to go and check the entire disk to make sure everything is okay.

On a trasaction based system (ntfs, reiserfs, hfs+) every write is first written as a transaction to a journal and then to the disk.  The advantage is that if a disk goes down down while writting the system can reboot and not have to worry about losing everything:it can playback the journal and bring the system to a known state.

It won't stop you from loosing data but it will make the recovery from a disk write failure faster.

It's basicly a way of making your disk more reliable in the event of power outage.  The performance hit is typically less than 10% for writting though no penalty for reads should be detectable (some say it makes it faster because the data is stored better on the disk - I don't believe them, but what do I know?)

I have journaling turned on for systems that spend most of their time unplugged because you never know what could go wrong.  For systems that don't move  I leave it turned off.

have i mentioned lately I absolutely love your posts. I like the way you are always concise and articulate in your giving of information and leave little room for argument :D

Wicked just hates the fact that most of her posts inspire arguments. Actually, she probably likes that because she would argue with a wall if it would have it.

That's very informative tho. Nice and easy to understand. thumbs_up.gif

Veteran

danbalsh

Posted
Posted
Wicked just hates the fact that most of her posts inspire arguments.  Actually, she probably likes that because she would argue with a wall if it would have it.

That's very informative tho.  Nice and easy to understand.

You've so just started using SHE a lot since I messed up :cool:

Grand Master

Wickedkitten Veteran

Posted
  • Veteran
Posted
Journaling moves harddisk disk writes to a transaction based method.

On a normal file system (fat32, hfs) when you say "write this to the disk" the harddrive will start writting the data to the platter - overwritting files as it goes (i am intentionally ignoring caching etc).  Imagine you were writting an update to a critical part of the system and your system went down: you could lose everything on a disk or damage much data so you have to go and check the entire disk to make sure everything is okay.

On a trasaction based system (ntfs, reiserfs, hfs+) every write is first written as a transaction to a journal and then to the disk.  The advantage is that if a disk goes down down while writting the system can reboot and not have to worry about losing everything:it can playback the journal and bring the system to a known state.

It won't stop you from loosing data but it will make the recovery from a disk write failure faster.

It's basicly a way of making your disk more reliable in the event of power outage.  The performance hit is typically less than 10% for writting though no penalty for reads should be detectable (some say it makes it faster because the data is stored better on the disk - I don't believe them, but what do I know?)

I have journaling turned on for systems that spend most of their time unplugged because you never know what could go wrong.  For systems that don't move  I leave it turned off.

have i mentioned lately I absolutely love your posts. I like the way you are always concise and articulate in your giving of information and leave little room for argument :D

Wicked just hates the fact that most of her posts inspire arguments. Actually, she probably likes that because she would argue with a wall if it would have it.

That's very informative tho. Nice and easy to understand. https://www.neowin.net/forum/html/emoticons...s/thumbs_up.gif

oi, get back on topic you. Post a screenshot of something.

Is it true that IE doesn't come installed in it at all?

Community Regular

usr.bin

Posted
Posted
Journaling moves harddisk disk writes to a transaction based method.

On a normal file system (fat32, hfs) when you say "write this to the disk" the harddrive will start writting the data to the platter - overwritting files as it goes (i am intentionally ignoring caching etc).? Imagine you were writting an update to a critical part of the system and your system went down: you could lose everything on a disk or damage much data so you have to go and check the entire disk to make sure everything is okay.

On a trasaction based system (ntfs, reiserfs, hfs+) every write is first written as a transaction to a journal and then to the disk.? The advantage is that if a disk goes down down while writting the system can reboot and not have to worry about losing everything:it can playback the journal and bring the system to a known state.

It won't stop you from loosing data but it will make the recovery from a disk write failure faster.

It's basicly a way of making your disk more reliable in the event of power outage.? The performance hit is typically less than 10% for writting though no penalty for reads should be detectable (some say it makes it faster because the data is stored better on the disk - I don't believe them, but what do I know?)

I have journaling turned on for systems that spend most of their time unplugged because you never know what could go wrong.? For systems that don't move? I leave it turned off.

have i mentioned lately I absolutely love your posts. I like the way you are always concise and articulate in your giving of information and leave little room for argum:Dt :D

Wicked just hates the fact that most of her posts inspire arguments. Actually, she probably likes that because she would argue with a wall if it would have it.

That's very informative tho. Nice and easy to understand. https://www.neowin.net/forum/html/emoticons...s/thumbs_up.gif

oi, get back on topic you. Post a screenshot of something.

Is it true that IE doesn't come installed in it at all?

No, because I didn't have that craptastic program on my system, I installed Panther, and there the bloody thing was. So, in the Dev Preview at least, it has I.E. installed.

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