For Apple Followers, It's a Matter of Faith

[Boz]

You are either incredibly lucky or a liar.

LOL. you Mac cult members are absolutely hilarious and in such denial.

[guru]

You are either incredibly lucky or a liar.

any internet suite (av + firewall KIS for example) these days almost ensures that.

unless ofcourse you intentionally hangout in "security" forums download stuff users create to test etc. not very difficult.

[Mr. Gibs]

You are either incredibly lucky or a liar.

Neither. It's called common sense. You can literally avoid 99%+ of viruses / worms / trojans simply by just using your brain. The other 0-1% is often just left upto chance. And for that odd 0-1%, I have an AV simply for peace of mind.

Viruses for the most part don't just popup out of nowhere, you usually have to do something to get them. And you don't even need to be a security geek to realize that.

Would you open the door to your house and let inside a complete stranger? In most cases no. So why go download an unknown program from an email from someone you don't even know?

[Southern Patriot]

No offense, but that claim just comes off sounding amazingly ignorant.

Staying malware-free isn't exactly rocket science. Pretty much everything my dad knows is how to power on his laptop, click on the blue 'e', and click his bookmarks. And even he's remained malware-free for more than two years without any intervention on my part, after I set up some basic stuff for him like a standard user account, DEP, and a decent free antivirus (MSE).

Yes, but Razorfold claimed he had been malware free for a decade. That would mean he never caught Blaster, Sasser, or any of the other viruses or worms that were around back then that needed nothing more than an active internet connection to become infected.

Neither. It's called common sense. You can literally avoid 99%+ of viruses / worms / trojans simply by just using your brain. The other 0-1% is often just left upto chance. And for that odd 0-1%, I have an AV simply for peace of mind.

Viruses for the most part don't just popup out of nowhere, you usually have to do something to get them. And you don't even need to be a security geek to realize that.

Would you open the door to your house and let inside a complete stranger? In most cases no. So why go download an unknown program from an email from someone you don't even know?

See above. And viruses, etc. don't always come from someone you don't know. They quite often come from someone you DO know who happens to have an infected machine.

[Mr. Gibs]

Yes, but Razorfold claimed he had been malware free for a decade. That would mean he never caught Blaster, Sasser, or any of the other viruses or worms that were around back then that needed nothing more than an active internet connection to become infected.

Nope I didn't. And guess what, neither of those affected 100% of Windows computers out there. And I've had an internet connection ever since 28.8k came out.

See above. And viruses, etc. don't always come from someone you don't know. They quite often come from someone you DO know who happens to have an infected machine.

Note where I said 99%+ of viruses require user intervention? Not 100%? And the other 1% or so was upto luck?

And protip, an example...is an example. And even if they do come from someone you know, its often worded in a really retarded way. Common example, "Hey look I found naked pictures of you on this site" (and the site's name is some completely obscure domain with half a million numbers in it)

[solcroft]

Yes, but Razorfold claimed he had been malware free for a decade. That would mean he never caught Blaster, Sasser, or any of the other viruses or worms that were around back then that needed nothing more than an active internet connection to become infected.

You mean all those worms that need nothing but a simple firewall (like the one that shipped with XP) to block?

To be honest I've never seen them either.

[offroadaaron]

Neither. It's called common sense. You can literally avoid 99%+ of viruses / worms / trojans simply by just using your brain. The other 0-1% is often just left upto chance. And for that odd 0-1%, I have an AV simply for peace of mind.

Viruses for the most part don't just popup out of nowhere, you usually have to do something to get them. And you don't even need to be a security geek to realize that.

Would you open the door to your house and let inside a complete stranger? In most cases no. So why go download an unknown program from an email from someone you don't even know?

And most people aren't smart enough it seems.

Myself, I CBF actually even thinking about it when I'm not at work :)

[Knife Party]

LOL. you Mac cult members are absolutely hilarious and in such denial.

I've read through the thread, and honestly all you do is rant, generalise and attack other members. Your arguments pretty much hold 0% rationale and If you're so Anti Apple, whats with the avatar ? :rolleyes:

[n_K]

Remember syndicate wars?

Yeh, well "Church of the new epoch" is, in my humble opinion, how apple seems to me.

[Dysphoria]

You on crack?

Why wouldn't he use computers? Have you not heard of Linux?

Shoes? WTF? :rofl:

Because every little piece of your PC hardware is made in China and Taiwan for a fraction of the price that you are paying, and so are your Nike or whatever brand of shoes that you are wearing.

Linux... what is that?

When you pay extortionate hardware prices for a piece of software, the belief can only be reinforced.

Sure give me a Laptop that has the same sturdy and light case with same battery life for $1000 and I'll get it.

Prior laptops: Toshiba - hate it it, HP - Hate it, Dell - it was ok but to flimsy...

When I purchase my macbook pro last year, it was the best piece of hardware for that price on the market...

For desktop hardware havent purchased one since 1996. I build my own desktops.

You judging people for what they purchase is stupid and ignorant and it doesnt make you better than any Apple or Microsoft fanboy.

[grant0r]

Aw jesus, way to exaggerated... Seriously. Sure thing, there are some crazy folks out there that love Apple. But I have seen crazy folks that love certain Cars and hate people for driving others. I have seen Linux-users that hate everyone who does not use Linux... I have seen Android users, that hate everyone who does not use Android. I even saw some folks that hate people based on their skin color! Man!

But not EVERY Linux/Android/Porsche/Windows/Mac-user, infact I bet it's a small minority that get's big attention, acts that way...

Some of the Apple-Hardware users out there actually made decisions based on experience, workflow and design to get what's right for them. Big deal? No.

I for myself use a MBP because it's sturdy, the OS serves my needs best and the Display is of great quality. I use an iPhone because in Germany, the antenna-problem is virtually non-existing and I overall think it's a good phone, which let's me call, surf the web, check my eMail and suits my design-loving needs (polished apps and all). And yes, I had a Droid aswell. Didn't like it so much. Just did't like it. Much like I don't like Spaghetti. I just don't like it.

So, does that make me a religious freak? Purchases made out of rational thinking and personal decisions? I don't think so. Because if so, then every Windows/Android/Linux/Whatever-user who researches a bit before buying something is a fanboy. And then noone would be. Which would be great! I mean...

Just let people buy what they fckng WANT to buy. May it be out of trend or because they don't want to follow a trend... how about giving a sht? It's their money. Not yours...

Ever come to think of that maybe you could feel better because you KNOW that they made the wrong decision? You could always feel superior, if that's your thing. But keep it to yourself. Noone cares. Or you could just go on and do something productive instead of getting mad because someone uses something that you don't consider "right" or "best". You are no better than they are, then...

Think about it...live and let live.

Aw well... 5 minutes of my life lost... in another worthless fanboy-blahblah-threat. I hate myself.

well said that man

[Mr. Gibs]

And most people aren't smart enough it seems.

Myself, I CBF actually even thinking about it when I'm not at work :)

Obviously they aren't lol. But that's a problem that will affect every OS / software.

Windows gets targeted quite frequently because its widely used, and has a ton of idiots using it. Making it easy game for malware writers. And well before XP SP2, windows security was almost non-existent. With Vista / 7, MS has made some major strides in that area.

I'm willing to bet you everything I own that if 90% of the world used Macs, we would be seeing the same sort of problem we are / did with Windows.

It's easy to criticize MS for lacking on security without really understanding what they have to do. They have to ensure user-friendliness and backward compatibility, both of which can cause a lot of problems from a security standpoint (DEP is a great example, slightly off topic but if you don't understand why ask). Then you have to take into account that MS knows idiots use their OS, so they have to work around that.

This statistic is kindoff old but was from US-Cert in 2005:

Between January 2005 and December 2005 there were 5198 reported vulnerabilities: 812 Windows operating system vulnerabilities; 2328 Unix/Linux operating vulnerabilities; and 2058 Multiple operating system vulnerabilities

[Southern Patriot]

This statistic is kindoff old but was from US-Cert in 2005:

That statistic means nothing without context (type of vulnerability, severity, transmission method, etc.).

[Mr. Gibs]

That statistic means nothing without context (type of vulnerability, severity, transmission method, etc.).

I never said it was a 100% accurate statistic now did I? I was simply just pointing out that people tend to look over Unix / Linux / Mac vulnerabilities.

Yes Windows gets a ton of viruses, but just exactly how many of them have been severely damaging? Linux / Mac gets less, but in most of those cases they are damaging (sometimes because they're targeted exploits written for a very specific purpose, as opposed to a general exploit designed to infect as many people as possible).

[LaP]

Neither. It's called common sense. You can literally avoid 99%+ of viruses / worms / trojans simply by just using your brain. The other 0-1% is often just left upto chance. And for that odd 0-1%, I have an AV simply for peace of mind.

Viruses for the most part don't just popup out of nowhere, you usually have to do something to get them. And you don't even need to be a security geek to realize that.

Would you open the door to your house and let inside a complete stranger? In most cases no. So why go download an unknown program from an email from someone you don't even know?

Sorry but virus DO pop up from nowhere if you are a power user. I will agree with roadwarrior here if you are a power user you surely got infected at least one in the past decade.

A lot of websites wil infect browsers like IE 8- by just visiting them. You don't need to push any button by just entering the website using IE you get automatically infected. And those websites often can be found on the first page of a basic google search. I got infected this year while visiting a website that looked perfectly legit from the google search result and url. The website was not about porn or anything like that it was a serach about Oracle Apex. I wont post a link to the website i don't want people to be infected. The virus was not detected by MS security essential. Had to remove it manually after a somewhat long search using my laptop.

I got infected 2-3 times in the last decade. I always use a firewall and AV. I do not open mails from people i do not know. I do not open mails from people i know unless i'm 100% sure the mail is coming from them. I do not visite warez sites and such. I never click a buton if i do not have a reason to do so. But i'm a power user. I install lot of apps for testing. I visit lot of websites for informations.

BTW some people are infected and do not even know it. Keylogger and worm are often not detected by AV and are transparent to the user infected.

[.Neo]

I'm not frustrated at all and certainly not irrational (especially since I studied consumer psychology as part of my college degree in marketing so I know exactly what drives Apple fans).. I'm just annoyed when someone tries to defend them which is usually coming from Apple fanboys which are majority of people owning something Apple unfortunately. As for Apple and Steve Jobs, well that's obvious he is a lying, sleazy, salesman scumbag. Of course he has charisma, but everything he says and does is done with a purpose in trying to make them sound as something they really are not.

Doing whatever study doesn't say much about your personal state of things toward a subject. You claim Apple fanboys do nothing but defend the company, but you basically do nothing else but attack Apple whether that is warranted or not. In my book that's just as bad. That's why I say you're no better than those fanboys you despise so much.

The Steve Jobs part I totally agree with. I can't stand the guy either.

Apple as a company is the greediest, most screwed up company in the tech world. That title belonged to Microsoft for a while but Apple was under the radar because they were super small. Now when they have grown more, they have shown they are 100 times worse than Microsoft, or anyone else. There's no question about that. That's why they keep everything closed up. They want to exploit users they manage to suck into the Apple platform. That's what's disingenuous about them and why I hate them with passion.

Thanks for proofing my point about you coming across as being frustrated towards Apple. Having that strong hate against any company is poor in my opinion. That is, unless they did something to really hurt you on a personal one-on-one level.

I own Apple hardware because I buy a product, not philosophy they are selling. The reason I hate them is because how they are and what their model is, and because they are lying sacks of ass, not because of their products per se.

As do I. I use Mac OS X because I feel I'm more productive that way and can perform my tasks easier than on Windows, it isn't a matter of faith in Apple. I like some of the products they're selling (not all) and that's it. If for whatever reason I feel like I can be more productive on Windows than on Mac OS X I'll drop Apple in a heartbeat. As of this typing that isn't the case however.

What's irrational is defending them, or any company that's like them for that matter because you like their products so you turn a blind eye and think that it's not a big deal. It's a huge deal!

Constantly attacking Apple every chance you get, blaming ONLY them of stuff other companies are guilty of as well, constantly attacking other members and ranting like crazy is just as irrational. It goes both ways, for some reason you don't or won't see that.

[Mr. Gibs]

Sorry but virus DO pop up from nowhere if you are a power user. I will agree with roadwarrior here if you are a power user you surely got infected at least one in the past decade.

Do you understand what "for the most part" means? Or "usually have to do something"?

A lot of websites wil infect browsers like IE 8- by just visiting them. You don't need to push any button by just entering the website using IE you get automatically infected. And those websites often can be found on the first page of a basic google search. I got infected this year while visiting a website that looked perfectly legit from the google search result and url. The website was not about porn or anything like that it was a serach about Oracle Apex. I wont post a link to the website i don't want people to be infected. The virus was not detected by MS security essential. Had to remove it manually after a somewhat long search using my laptop.

Protected mode and UAC off? While they both can be defeated, it takes quite a lot of effort to accomplish ;)

I personally don't use IE8 very much, Opera here, but:

Despite the survival of Google Chrome and the fall of Internet Explorer 8 (running on Windows 7), all the browser hackers at the contest maintained that Microsoft's browser is by far the most difficult to exploit. For starters, IE 8 is the only browser to fully -- and properly -- implement ASLR (see explanation from Nils). Peter Vreugdenhil, the researcher behind the successful IE 8 hack, needed two different vulnerabilities and several exploitation tricks (see paper - pdf) to get it to work. However, because IE is the world's most widely deployed browser, it will continue to attract the attention of hackers and malware writers. Security doesn't equate to safety.

http://threatpost.com/en_us/slideshow/10%20Lessons%20From%20The%20Pwn2Own%20Hacker%20Contest?page=4

Either way, this is getting wayyy off topic.

[LaP]

Do you understand what "for the most part" means? Or "usually have to do something"?

Protected mode and UAC off? While they both can be defeated, it takes quite a lot of effort to accomplish ;)

I personally don't use IE8 very much, Opera here, but:

http://threatpost.com/en_us/slideshow/10%20Lessons%20From%20The%20Pwn2Own%20Hacker%20Contest?page=4

Either way, this is getting wayyy off topic.

I don't say other browsers are more secure or anything like that ;) I use IE 8 (IE7 before). I use Firefox but for development only (plugins are great for dev) i do not surf the web using it.

Yeah it's getting OT.

BTW i'm really tempted to buy an iPod. I never owned any product made by Apple but **** the iPod Touch is sexy.

[Southern Patriot]

A lot of websites wil infect browsers like IE 8- by just visiting them.

Hell, even browsing Craigslist can be dangerous sometimes. I was looking through some local ads the other day and would have gotten infected if I didn't have the Adobe PDF plugin for IE disabled (a site that I regularly visit has had a rash of people hacking it with PDF exploits, so I keep it off just in case). The person who posted the ad had information linked to a page that had an infected embedded PDF.

[offroadaaron]

Obviously they aren't lol. But that's a problem that will affect every OS / software.

Windows gets targeted quite frequently because its widely used, and has a ton of idiots using it. Making it easy game for malware writers. And well before XP SP2, windows security was almost non-existent. With Vista / 7, MS has made some major strides in that area.

I'm willing to bet you everything I own that if 90% of the world used Macs, we would be seeing the same sort of problem we are / did with Windows.

It's easy to criticize MS for lacking on security without really understanding what they have to do. They have to ensure user-friendliness and backward compatibility, both of which can cause a lot of problems from a security standpoint (DEP is a great example, slightly off topic but if you don't understand why ask). Then you have to take into account that MS knows idiots use their OS, so they have to work around that.

This statistic is kindoff old but was from US-Cert in 2005:

I do not disagree with any of that, but the here and now, and the lead up until now, plus from what ive seen and used, it's an easier safer OS because of exactly what you've stated above.

Is that so bad?

[solcroft]

Hell, even browsing Craigslist can be dangerous sometimes. I was looking through some local ads the other day and would have gotten infected if I didn't have the Adobe PDF plugin for IE disabled (a site that I regularly visit has had a rash of people hacking it with PDF exploits, so I keep it off just in case). The person who posted the ad had information linked to a page that had an infected embedded PDF.

If you don't run as standard user, don't use an antivirus, disable DEP, use software with known vulnerabilities etc etc etc, AND open any PDF you run across, yes, that's probably dangerous. But that's like saying driving while intoxicated, blindfolded, and with damaged brakes you never bothered to get fixed is dangerous.

[TheElite]

Because every little piece of your PC hardware is made in China and Taiwan for a fraction of the price that you are paying, and so are your Nike or whatever brand of shoes that you are wearing.

Now-a-days, most things come from there. Are we going to stop buying light bulbs now? Please...

Linux... what is that?

Are you serious?

Sure give me a Laptop that has the same sturdy and light case with same battery life for $1000 and I'll get it.

Prior laptops: Toshiba - hate it it, HP - Hate it, Dell - it was ok but to flimsy...

You didn't really check the market then if you think that you can't get a far better laptop for the same price as a Macbook Pro.

You judging people for what they purchase is stupid and ignorant and it doesnt make you better than any Apple or Microsoft fanboy.

I'm not judging them. I'm just laughing at their "protective" bubble which makes them think that their better than everyone else.

[Dysphoria]

Now-a-days, most things come from there. Are we going to stop buying light bulbs now? Please...

Maybe you should read Boz's comment since I was originally replying to him but you came to his "defense".

Are you serious?

Are you?

You didn't really check the market then if you think that you can't get a far better laptop for the same price as a Macbook Pro.

Yes I did, I needed portability, long battery life (6+ hours), sturdy laptop that wont get bent when I place it in my carry on, and comfortable keyboard with backlight.

No one else offered this combination...

I'm not judging them. I'm just laughing at their "protective" bubble which makes them think that their better than everyone else.

I can say the same for you. You, yourself not using Apple products, think that you are smarter/better than anyone else that chooses to purchase their product.

What bubble do you live in?

[TheElite]

Are you?

I'm sorry, but do you know what Linux is? Your previous posts say that you don't.

I can say the same for you. You, yourself not using Apple products, think that you are smarter/better than anyone else that chooses to purchase their product.

What bubble do you live in?

Don't assume. I have an iTouch.

[Dysphoria]

I'm sorry, but do you know what Linux is? Your previous posts say that you don't.

I was being sarcastic since I've been working on unix platforms since 1996...

Don't assume. I have an iTouch.

I don't assume, I am reading what you and Boz are saying about people that buy Apple products.

I mostly don't care ... but since I've been a member here for almost nine years it bothers me when I keep seeing over and over again stupid generalization comments, especially coming from some young punks that have just barely learned how to use windows, and think they are the smartest sh*t on earth.