Apple Prices

[treemonster]

I imagine he didn't buy a Mac because it didn't suit what he wanted or needed. Maybe he wanted to build his own machine to his exact specifications. Not everyone wants to, so not everyone does.

It's a choice. It really is as simple as that. I'm a MacBook Air user, and I don't look down my nose at people who use a PC. I don't see why you insist on doing so to Mac users.

maybe if mac users stopped trying to sell me a mac and saying how magical they are i wouldn't respond when someone makes an obvious troll thread and the apple fanboys flock to defend their precious junk.

if he wants to answer the question let him do so himself. if he stands by his post sin this thread then how can he justify owning two systems with premium parts like the ones he has over mac hardware that would certainly do the job just fine for a comparable price to the ones he specced out.

[rajputwarrior]

I imagine he didn't buy a Mac because it didn't suit what he wanted or needed. Maybe he wanted to build his own machine to his exact specifications. Not everyone wants to, so not everyone does.

It's a choice. It really is as simple as that. I'm a MacBook Air user, and I don't look down my nose at people who use a PC. I don't see why you insist on doing so to Mac users.

cause he's a troll, best part is, i don't even see his replies. i have him blocked, i just see everyone else quoting his troll posts.

he really has absolutely no basis to what he is talking about. all is information is he said, she said.

[treemonster]

yea you facepalm, exactly what i did when i read your comment... That is essentially what you said.

"but it doesn't work on any other OS, so essentially it comes with windows."

does ilife come preinstalled on osx? do you download it or does it come on the discs?

according to a quick google this is hit or miss. as people ask why doesn't ilife come on my mac or why doesn't ilife come on teh discs included with my mac?

is that so different from WLE? that you simply download at your liesure?

or is ilife not come with macs and is simply free ot mac users because it doesn't work on any other OS?

cause he's a troll, best part is, i don't even see his replies. i have him blocked, i just see everyone else quoting his troll posts.

he really has absolutely no basis to what he is talking about. all is information is he said, she said.

the ignore feature doesn't seem to be working because you keep fail trolling me.

[Simon Veteran]

iLife comes on every Mac, no download required.. iWork doesn't (it's an Office equivalent).

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

You are not paying for the product more than you are paying for the name

[treemonster]

iLife comes on every Mac, no download required.. iWork doesn't (it's an Office equivalent).

according to a google search- until you upgrade and choose the $30 disc set instead of the $130 disc set in which case you lose ilife completely. fantastic! :whistle:

[Leonick]

does ilife come preinstalled on osx? do you download it or does it come on the discs?

according to a quick google this is hit or miss. as people ask why doesn't ilife come on my mac or why doesn't ilife come on teh discs included with my mac?

is that so different from WLE? that you simply download at your liesure?

or is ilife not come with macs and is simply free ot mac users because it doesn't work on any other OS?

iLife comes on every Mac, no download required.. iWork doesn't (it's an Office equivalent).

Well question is already answered but I'll still ad a quote from Apples site

Mac OS X Snow Leopard + iLife ?11

Every Mac comes with the world?s most advanced operating system, as well as iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD so you can do more with your photos, movies, and music.

Yea that most "advanced operating system" is kinda funny, not sure i would say that but...

according to a google search- until you upgrade and choose the $30 disc set instead of the $130 disc set in which case you lose ilife completely. fantastic! :whistle:

sure looks as if you receive discs for iLife and would as such be able to install that again...

[Simon Veteran]

according to a google search- until you upgrade and choose the $30 disc set instead of the $130 disc set in which case you lose ilife completely. fantastic! :whistle:

When you do a fresh install of OS X, you lose iLife (unless you use the discs that came with your computer).

I believe you can fairly easily find the iLife installer on your original install disk, though.

EDIT: Yes, you can get it from the original install disc: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2604

[treemonster]

so you have to download it in that case?

sounds silly and it is silly. what is this 1994?

[Leonick]

so you have to download it in that case?

sounds silly and it is silly. what is this 1994?

well as you might have seen he already edited in that the files are on the original disc...

and no this is 2010 where you don't even necessarily get hardware drivers on a disc with you hardware or restore discs with your computer

[Xero]

It's like asking 'Why this Mercedes is two times more expensive than the Hyundai with the same engine?'.

Well said my friend. I always wondering why people bitched about Apple prices and compare similar specced laptops. There's more to it than just the hardware inside. No one seems to care about the quality of the display. Something Apple does very very well. Another often overlooked is ram speed. The average person thinks if they are both 4GB than they are the same, bus speed is rarely advertised but is quite important. I suppose the most obvious difference is the build. Apple's laptops these days are very strong and solid. All the others tend to be cheap, plastic, made of several different components. This is mostly so they can sell them at a lower cost. I'd love someone to do a strength test. See what happens when you drop a macbook and the average laptop from the same height. I guess Mac OS X is another good feature. Even if you installed Windows only on a macbook, its still one hell of a machine.

So are the overpriced? Depends if you care about quality. Medicine is a great example. You can get no name pain killers easily. Yet most still buy Tylenol/Advil. Why buy this overpriced medicine when you can get the "same thing" for much cheaper. It's because Tylenol/Advil are known for quality. Back to berlin's comment. Both cars will get the same jobs done and may have many of the same parts. However one car might be more comfortable and last longer than the other. And that, comes at a price. Do you really want to save 300-400 bucks and end up having to replace it with a new one a year later? Now thats not the case for everyone, but these OEM's don't sell them so cheap with the intention of them lasting very long. They want you to buy another one asap.

[Vice]

so why vigorously defend apple junk?

you've obviously spent the premiums on your parts for your purposes. is apple too expensive or not cost effective for you? what reason do you have for not going apple if it so worth the premiums?

if apple is so much better why not go with apple? if apple is not worth your money then why defend it so vigorously if i had stepped on your pride by calling it junk?

PS i think their mobile devices are junk too. shiny for sure, but i've had more effective mp3 players i can use inside my pocket than any ipod and i'm not a smartphone kind of guy but if i were i would probably go with a blackberry for functionality reasons over fluff like apps and touch screens.

and if you have a WCed system you either care about temps or sound a great deal, and are willing to pay the premium for a decent to good set up.

Cause if you read what I said, I said that the Mac Pro has good airflow. The Mac Pro is a piece of **** in comparison to what you can build. But you wanted to make the argument that its airflow was terrible which isn't true.

The reason I don't own a desktop Mac is because I can build a better PC specification wise for a lower price and I get better hardware support. I have two GTX 480's - The Mac Pro won't even run a single GTX 480. I can run SSDs with TRIM support. Mac's don't support TRIM. Mac's dont even support SLI not even the ones that come with multiple cards. Even Linux has SLI support at this point.

I think the Mac Pro case lacks hard disk slots. I think the Mac Pro lacks Bluray. I think OS X lacks Bluray support. These are all things I want in my computer. It's a similar story with my server. Apple decided to drop ZFS development, not all RAID cards work, Apples enclosures for storage are limited to 3 drives (xserve) or 4 drives (Mac Pro) the only alternative is to buy a DAS and attach it to a Mac.

Basically what I'm saying is, I don't own these computers because they don't fit my needs. However I do own a 17" MacBook Pro. Sounds crazy right? Well hear me out. With a notebook you cant build it yourself so getting what you want (exactly what you want) is impossible. You will always make a concession for a notebook. I personally like my notebooks to be thin, light and with kick-ass battery life. My MacBook Pro is 6.6 Pounds, under an inch thick and has an 8 hour battery. That is pretty impressive to me. I also think the Trackpad is the best in the business (and I've tried a lot of them). The metal enclosure is also really nice, it isn't impossible to get a metal enclosure from other makers but usually they make concessions in other ways to get you that metal enclosure.

And of course when I looked for a new Notebook I did shop around I didn't just go 'right Apple for me' I checked out Dell. The closest system at the time was the Dell 16" XPS. It had a smaller screen, lower resolution. But it had Bluray and it had better graphics. The price difference was ?150 (MacBook Pro more exspensive). Both systems had a Core 2 Duo 2.93GHz CPU and a 320GB 7,200RPM Hard Disk. I decided I valued the higher resolution display, the 8 hour battery and the all metal enclosure over what Dell was offering at the time. I did check out Alienware, HP, Acer, Asus, Lenovo and more at the same time but Dell came closest.

The reason I water cooled my PC was because the GTX 480's were so loud while gaming they could be heard anywhere in my house. :laugh: My system is completely silent now.

[ccuk]

why do games run far worse on the same hardware in osx as they do on the very same machine in windows?

encoding videos on my windows machine does not raise temps on the cpu, why would it in OSX which is known to fully optimize multi core CPUs?

engineers running a mac? for what? the only AUTOcad program for OSX is still in beta. and no engineer is going to use a beta program for his end product simply to use a mac when the windows version has years of stability behind it.

those brands you mentioned sometime4s have great forms imho, but it's not the number one thing about those brands that makes them special to their users. asus in particular is very high quality and sells a variety of form factors that are similar but for a very high discount against apple products. like the imac deisgn but it's not in your budget? asus sells something similar with touchscreen built in for about $300.

from the link iprovided. an intake fan. not on the front. but an intake fan.

You haven't addressed my points, merely changed the angle from which you are coming from.

The initial argument wasn't that performance on a Mac was below that of a PC, you made the claim you can't game on a Mac. I addressed that misinformation.

Encoding video on your machine maybe, but then there is a stark difference between throwing h.264 / xvid files around compared with dpx or RED.

Bootcamp, Parallels and VMware. I guess you miss that some people enjoy using a variety of operating systems. I use linux, OSX and Windows every day, I enjoy using them all, so can an engineer?

My argument which you side dodged again, was that the other form factors offer almost nothing extra over a Mac. They pretty much do exactly the same, so making it sound like the Mac platform does less than its competitors because of its form is wrong.

[treemonster]

You haven't addressed my points, merely changed the angle from which you are coming from.

The initial argument wasn't that performance on a Mac was below that of a PC, you made the claim you can't game on a Mac. I addressed that misinformation.

Encoding video on your machine maybe, but then there is a stark difference between throwing h.264 / xvid files around compared with dpx or RED.

Bootcamp, Parallels and VMware. I guess you miss that some people enjoy using a variety of operating systems. I use linux, OSX and Windows every day, I enjoy using them all, so can an engineer?

My argument which you side dodged again, was that the other form factors offer almost nothing extra over a Mac. They pretty much do exactly the same, so making it sound like the Mac platform does less than its competitors because of its form is wrong.

where did i say you can't game on a mac? no where. i may have said gaming on a mac was silly, but i am well aware of what games are available for OSX.

this argument of yours that other "form factors" do the same is new. you were arguing macs are worth the premium iirc. and why would you want to pay the premium for a computer that come with the bloatware called OSX? when you could get a pretty decent win7 no matter what your task withoput that huge premium in any hardware configuration possible, not just allowed by apple, that can be tailored to any task, low level consumer or high end mission critical professional in the film or medical or engineering fields, which macs don't have the approved hardware to do, nor the drivers. you don't use a 5870 when you need a firepro or quadro for the job.

[Rudy]

this argument of yours that other "form factors" do the same is new. you were arguing macs are worth the premium iirc. and why would you want to pay the premium for a computer that come with the bloatware called OSX? when you could get a pretty decent win7 no matter what your task withoput that huge premium in any hardware configuration possible, not just allowed by apple, that can be tailored to any task, low level consumer or high end mission critical professional in the film or medical or engineering fields, which macs don't have the approved hardware to do, nor the drivers. you don't use a 5870 when you need a firepro or quadro for the job.

You expect people to take you seriously after saying stupid stuff like that?? :unsure: (mind you, you said a lot of dumb things in this thread, I just thought it was easier to pick your last post)

[treemonster]

You expect people to take you seriously after saying stupid stuff like that?? :unsure: (mind you, you said a lot of dumb things in this thread, I just thought it was easier to pick your last post)

it's impossible to take the apple fanboys in this thread seriously with their lolzy "arguments" as to why macs are worth their prices.

keep drinking the koolaid.

I CAN DO ANYTHING ON A MAC INCLUDING STEREOSCOPIC 3D IMAGING ON MY 5870 AND MAKE MOVIES LIKE AVATAR FOR REALZ. YOU SAID YOU CAN"T GAME ON A MAC. ALLUMINIUM UNIBODY CASE MAKES IT WORTH $1K MORE THAN THE WIN7 AND LAPTOPS NEED IPS SCREENS. MAC PROS HAVE GOOD AIRFLOW!

quite honestly this thread has been my comedic relief since it was started.

you'll note i predicted this thread turning out this way on the first or second page. because when you leet the apple koolaid drinkers out of their ghetto, they invaraibly bring their claims of a magical land of unicorns and fairies and how apple products are really good for prebuilt machines and how you can't get professional prebuilt machines from builders like HP or dell that far surprass the operational ability of any mac for a best cost to effectiveness ratio and are easier to service.

it's not hard to see how limited OSX itself is due to many factors including apple hobbling driver support for it for years and other lolzy **** mac fans think are good things.

[ccuk]

it's impossible to take the apple fanboys in this thread seriously with their lolzy "arguments" as to why macs are worth their prices.

keep drinking the koolaid.

I CAN DO ANYTHING ON A MAC INCLUDING STEREOSCOPIC 3D IMAGING ON MY 5870 AND MAKE MOVIES LIKE AVATAR FOR REALZ. YOU SAID YOU CAN"T GAME ON A MAC. ALLUMINIUM UNIBODY CASE MAKES IT WORTH $1K MORE THAN THE WIN7 AND LAPTOPS NEED IPS SCREENS. MAC PROS HAVE GOOD AIRFLOW!

quite honestly this thread has been my comedic relief since it was started.

you'll note i predicted this thread turning out this way on the first or second page. because when you leet the apple koolaid drinkers out of their ghetto, they invaraibly bring their claims of a magical land of unicorns and fairies and how apple products are really good for prebuilt machines and how you can't get professional prebuilt machines from builders like HP or dell that far surprass the operational ability of any mac for a best cost to effectiveness ratio and are easier to service.

it's not hard to see how limited OSX itself is due to many factors including apple hobbling driver support for it for years and other lolzy **** mac fans think are good things.

Going by this response, my initial thought of you trolling was well on par as well as lacking comprehension skills.

If you read over the post of yours

i'll have to disagreee. negative air pressure and compartmentalized components does not do as good a job as intake fans to exhaust fans airflow set up. otherwise build it yourself cases would still be doing this like they did 10 years ago. if the components stay within operational norms it's because there is nothing you can do on a mac including gaming due to things like poor usage of the hardware as a result of poor drivers and OSX itself to really push that hardware into higher temps. compartmented internals are not going to allow the components to breath in this configuration and will make the HSFs work harder for less effect under load, as if macs can get to that high of hardware utilization.

You can clearly see where I got that from.

My argument about form factor?

Your argument of form over function is flawed also... Explain to me what function a Dell, HP or Asus laptop achieves in its form that the Apple machines do not? They don't. They are all on par, the only real difference is cost and that is a personal choice.

That was my first response in the thread and to you. Note my argument? All the machines do pretty much the same... Only difference is price. So their form doesn't really affect what they can do and achieve in this day and age... Except really high end specialist machines.

As evidenced by many other posters in this thread, you clearly don't use any of the hardware you are degrading and chastising for any real work. you also don't have a clear understanding of the capabilities of the hardware, or its real world use. I suggest you logout. Read over the whole thread. Take your time. This will stop you hitting the reply button and making yet more stupid unfounded and incoherent responses on this thread and forum.

[Rudy]

it's impossible to take the apple fanboys in this thread seriously with their lolzy "arguments" as to why macs are worth their prices.

keep drinking the koolaid.

I CAN DO ANYTHING ON A MAC INCLUDING STEREOSCOPIC 3D IMAGING ON MY 5870 AND MAKE MOVIES LIKE AVATAR FOR REALZ. YOU SAID YOU CAN"T GAME ON A MAC. ALLUMINIUM UNIBODY CASE MAKES IT WORTH $1K MORE THAN THE WIN7 AND LAPTOPS NEED IPS SCREENS. MAC PROS HAVE GOOD AIRFLOW!

quite honestly this thread has been my comedic relief since it was started.

you'll note i predicted this thread turning out this way on the first or second page. because when you leet the apple koolaid drinkers out of their ghetto, they invaraibly bring their claims of a magical land of unicorns and fairies and how apple products are really good for prebuilt machines and how you can't get professional prebuilt machines from builders like HP or dell that far surprass the operational ability of any mac for a best cost to effectiveness ratio and are easier to service.

it's not hard to see how limited OSX itself is due to many factors including apple hobbling driver support for it for years and other lolzy **** mac fans think are good things.

You need to calm down a bit... you talk about "fanboys" but so far you're the worst fanboy in this thread :whistle:

The OP asked a simple question and got some descent answers (here and here) and replied with a fairly ignorant post and never really tried to understand why he was wrong (multitouch trackpad != more than one cursor lol). But even if he did I'm sure his post would have been drowned in the crappy debates over airflow in the mac pro (which btw is NOT aimed at the consumer market (or "gamers"), I always find it funny when people complain about the price etc of the mac pro, I just compared a Dell "Workstation" and I get about the same price :/

8 Core Mac Pro (2.4ghz): $3,499

Dell Precision T7500 Tower Workstation (customized to have the same config as the mac pro): $3,484.00

Starting Price $3,914.00

Instant Savings $430.00

Subtotal $3,484.00

The Mac Pro can't be compared to a nice gaming PC built with a Core i7 :rolleyes: both are nice but they have different purpose

[treemonster]

lolz. seriously. i haven't even had my coffee yet and apple fanboys are calling me a troll.

you can buy an hp or dell machine that has ecc memory and a fire pro or quadro in it that can do many things no mac can do. like do work on high level graphics deisgn for a movie like avatar or even a lower budget film(hollywood does this quite frequently for effects) or do 3d stereoscopic imaging.

go find out what firepro and quadro are. and what they do, before you spout off about that macs can do anything any other computer do. they can't. apple does not allow firepro and quadro drivers to be written for OSX. so don't blame amd and nvidia for that. it's not even their fault their drivers for OSX for their consumer brand cards suck, it's apple's.

also look up what form means. form wise prebuilt machines with no intake fans aren't much different from mac pros except mac pros have all those compartments. form wise the onyl difference between and mbp and an asus laptop is the alluminum unibody design.

if you can't grasp the basic definition of the word form then stop using it.

form factor means as in laptop or desktop. there are desktops from hp and dell that have professional grade hardware not available in the mac ecosphere.

[ccuk]

lolz. seriously. i haven't even had my coffee yet and apple fanboys are calling me a troll.

you can buy an hp or dell machine that has ecc memory and a fire pro or quadro in it that can do many things no mac can do. like do work on high level graphics deisgn for a movie like avatar or even a lower budget film(hollywood does this quite frequently for effects) or do 3d stereoscopic imaging.

go find out what firepro and quadro are. and what they do, before you spout off about that macs can do anything any other computer do. they can't. apple does not allow firepro and quadro drivers to be written for OSX. so don't blame amd and nvidia for that. it's not even their fault their drivers for OSX for their consumer brand cards suck, it's apple's.

also look up what form means. form wise prebuilt machines with no intake fans aren't much different from mac pros except mac pros have all those compartments. form wise the onyl difference between and mbp and an asus laptop is the alluminum unibody design.

if you can't grasp the basic definition of the word form then stop using it.

form factor means as in laptop or desktop. there are desktops from hp and dell that have professional grade hardware not available in the mac ecosphere.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_fx_4800_for_mac_us.html

Conversation over.

[Vice]

lolz. seriously. i haven't even had my coffee yet and apple fanboys are calling me a troll.

you can buy an hp or dell machine that has ecc memory and a fire pro or quadro in it that can do many things no mac can do. like do work on high level graphics deisgn for a movie like avatar or even a lower budget film(hollywood does this quite frequently for effects) or do 3d stereoscopic imaging.

Avatar was edited (in 3D) on Avid Media Composer. Avid Media Composer runs on Macs. :blush:

[ccuk]

And just for the record, I haven't argued that a Mac Pro is the machine to buy for doing high end work, as it really isn't value for money. I am just trying to point out the generalist comments made in this thread with regards to the hardware and software not being up to par for doing "real" work are utter garbage.

I use Linux and Win 7 every day for running most of the critical apps needed to produce good work. Though Final Cut on the Mac is pretty darn amazing.

[xWhiplash]

Mac Pros use the Xeon processors that run for more than $600-$1000+ alone. i7s in other manufactures are $200-400. There might be a few systems that come with the i7 extreme, but I doubt that will be below $2000 even.

You cannot compare server grade hardware to a $500 dell desktop, it is just ridiculous. The case is a work of art, and the way everything is split up is actually better for cooling. There is a fan in the front, and a fan in the back. Do you really need 6 fans on a computer?

Dont forget about some of the greatest production programs that are only available for OS X. GarageBand and Logic Express/Studio are simply the best audio production software available (at a reasonable price) in terms of simplicity and functionality. Have you tried using FL Studio or anything on Windows? I cannot stand the layout of anything after using GarageBand. It just looks so clean and very easy to work with. And guess what? You get GarageBand included in the price of a Mac, and it is already installed.

Now on to Final Cut Studio. I personally like Adobe Premiere and After Effects better, but FC is in the top 5 at least of the best video production software you can get.

[treemonster]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_quadro_fx_4800_for_mac_us.html

Conversation over.

Avatar was edited (in 3D) on Avid Media Composer. Avid Media Composer runs on Macs. :blush:

i just got double owned. although from a quick google of avatar and avid media composer, some seem to indicate it was used for the film on an HP workstation. as well it was not used for the special effects, more the cutting process, the former being where you would use a quadro or firepro.

anyways, just specced out a xeon/firepro based hp workstation for ~$2100 @ hp.com not their highest or lowest end workstation either.

[instant.human]

So you are seriously calling everyone saying they liked Macs better fanboys, yet in every statement you make you say "HP/DELL/whatever is way better and Macs are POS" and THEN you even try to convince us you are not a fanboy and everyone who doesn't like or own the products you like and rather owns something you don't want is a fanboy and after THAT you want to be taken seriously?

Alright! :huh: